Good affordable studio monitors?

[mate stubb]

Do you want "high fi" sound, or do you want neutral transparency?

[CaptainUnderpant]

"High Fi" or "Neutral Transparency"?

 

Isn't it the goal of speaker manufacturers in the Audiophile world AND the Studio Monitor World to create a FLAT response curve?

 

Should these two goals, "High Fi" and "Neutral Transparency", then be the same?

[timwat]

In my experience, the two worlds couldn't be farther apart.

 

While recording studio monitoring (and really, I'm referring to large ATC systems and the like, not small near field monitors primarily) pursues flat reproduction at a wide range of SPLs, the Audiophile world, for all the bloated hyperbole about "transparent", "airy", "soundstage" etc., really hates examples of actual flat, neutral reproduction.

 

What garners the glowing reviews are exciting, dramatic and...juiced. My 0.02.

 

 

[Marzzz]

If it can be reasonably argued that the most important thing in a studio enviroment is your ears, it can also be reasonably argued that the next most important thing are your speakers.

 

It makes very little sense to have a good instrument if the thing that Actually Reproduces the Sound is not the best it can be.

 

Do NOT skimp on monitors. They are the thing you use to evaluate just about every non-acoustic sound you make. Good monitors will make you appreciate every piece of gear you have. Bad ones mean you're not really hearing any of the gear you have.

 

dB

Speaker pimp

 

Speaker pimp, indeed!

 

Back around a dozen or so years ago, I listened to the sage advice of our fearless leader, and bought through him (he was working with ADAM at the time) a beautiful pair of ADAM S2As and a Sub8 for my small studio. They sounded incredible! Even listening to source CD material, I could hear detail I never knew existed, and my synths sounded amazing, almost like there were all over the room, yet inside my head at the same time.

 

Only problem was, right about that time my journalist wife started freelancing from home, and continues to work and write from home to this day. I have been able to use my monitors barely two dozen times over the years. Can anyone recommend really excellent headphones....?

 

[Mark Schmieder]

This is a repeat thread, close on the heels of another one, but I'll comment anyway.

 

There are many good bang-for-buck choices in the under-$600 price range, compared to a decade or so past. So it's good to know the REAL budget, to save time on useful advice.

 

I used the JBL LSR series for a few years, after the KRK Rokits (never got a good mix on those), and feel they are among the best bang-for-buck and pretty close to intermediate level (if not even higher), for a low price.

 

There are others that are arguably just as good, if different, in a similar price range.

 

The real gem these days, however, is the Neumann reissue of the former Klein & Hummel active monitors, which maintain their heritage in the "KH" prefix to their model names.

 

These are intermediate priced monitors that can often be had at steep discount (I bought my pair for under $1100), yet deliver the sound of monitors in the $2000 to $3500 price bracket.

 

So, if you can swing it, I highly recommend a pair, as it is a HUGE step up from ANYTHING in the budget category, and about the best you can do for a smaller and/or untreated room (most higher-end monitors are going to be more finicky about their environment).

 

They are flat as a pancake, across the spectrum, and have a lot of adjustment for different rooms and placements, well explained in the user manual.

 

I didn't even bother with a sub this time around, but they just came out with a new one that is half the price of their main sub but still too deep for my space (over 24" deep) even though not as extreme as the main model (something like 36" deep?).

 

Remember to buy the right monitor size for your room. Although an 8" monitor might sound more balanced (without a sub taking the load off the lows for a smaller main monitor pair), it requires a considerably larger working distance, which many of us (including myself) do not have.

 

By working distance, I mean a combination of room size and how far you are from your monitors. Most of us probably have our monitors just a couple of feet away, as part of our computer desk/table setup (whether or not on dedicated stands). That is NOT enough working distance for an 8" monitor! Really, the larger monitors are for those using console desks, which push them further away from the wall compared to us "home studio" types.

 

Also, three-way monitors are a bad idea in smaller spaces or any untreated space of any size. One could argue they're essential for mastering work, if you're doing it for a living and have the space for a separate mastering room (larger than a mixing room, often if not usually untreated, and meant for LOUD listening levels).

[Sundown]

Great feedback Mark. You answered some of my questions (particularly about monitor size vs. room size, and 2-way vs. 3-way). I had my eyes on the Neumann KH three-ways, but My room is relatively small (15' x 11 x 7.5'). My next studio room will be about 19' x 12' x 7.5'.

[Mark Schmieder]

That room is twice as big as mine. Maybe it's OK for 3-way monitors, if you can work out the ergonomics of working distance.

[Sundown]

Thanks Mark. I repositioned my existing speakers today in my 14'x11' space, and I must have hit the sweet spot. In all of the rooms I've been in, this one has the best discernible bottom end. I've got a total of 20 broadband absorbers in there (everything from Real Traps to 8"-thick Owens 703), but I've had rooms with even more trapping that didn't sound this good.

 

My current speakers leave a lot to be desired (Event PS-8s), but I'll eventually replace them.

 

Thanks again.

[Mark Schmieder]

Glad to hear. I'm no expert at near-field setup; my company makes a couple of pairs that are practically industry standards but I don't have the proper space for them (yet) so I no longer even try to win them in the raffle each year.

 

My own expertise is in far-field, as that's what my software app focuses on. Completely different animal, but it's what I live and breathe every day to support my earthly needs.

 

I've never been a fan of Events, even though the Brits in particular seem to love them. I have always felt them to be coloured, but probably it's more a matter of room positioning. I usually keep my mouth shut about that brand as I seem to be in the minority, but since you mentioned being less than satisfied, I felt justified in posting my own perception of them not being truthful to the sound source.

 

The acoustic treatment we've done has been a separate room used for drum, vocal, and maybe eventually guitar amp recording. We're real happy with it, but it wouldn't work out to also have my computer setup in there. Nevertheless, this house we moved into early last year is an acoustical dream, so I'm not even sure much work would need to be done if it came to that.

[Theo Verelst]

...; my company makes a couple of pairs that are practically industry standards...

 

What do you consider "near field' monis ? Traditionally those were the little square single cone boxes on top of the meter bar, but it seems a lot of offerings are more meant as somewhere in between those and big, meters away monitors.

 

As a general side remark: you can take a bass amp or a sub in a small room (preferably lots bigger than a closet though) and make tones "sound" in a small space, that's not much of a problem. However, with the super small cone studio monitors (as they are called) people get used to hearing low frequencies as resonances slowly building up in the room, because the direct output of such incredibly small cones readily decreases with frequency. So changing the room size then changes a certain low end type of perception.

 

Of course you can also argue: the customer has small hifi bookshelf speakers, or a TV bar or something, so why not to an extend mix for those.

 

T.

[Dave Bryce]

Of course you can also argue: the customer has small hifi bookshelf speakers, or a TV bar or something, so why not to an extend mix for those.

...and then there's the ones that only listen on earbuds.

 

And the ones that only listen on their car.

 

And then there's the ones that just love their subwoofers, even with their small computer monitors.

 

And the ones that stream audio through their 5.1 home systems, letting the DSP do all kinds of fun things the mix engineer never intended.

 

This is one of the main reasons one should not skimp on studio monitors, and why the last thing you want is impressive sounding ones. They should be as neutral as possible to insure transportability across the widest range of potential playback systems.

 

dB

[timwat]

Dave,

 

This begs a question - without measurement software, how does the average keyboard player, who saves up a few thousand to splurge on some quality monitors, ensure they're buying a pair that is a neutral as possible?

 

Tim

[Dave Bryce]

Measurement software ain't the way either, IMO. If you set up a room with math but your ears aren't happy, you won't make the right choices when you mix.

 

At the end of the day, none of them are dead neutral - they can't be. They're all limited by the physics of their designs, and influenced by the philosophies of the companies that bring them to market. There are some companies that are all about dead flat measurements in an anachoic chamber (silly to me - I don't mix in an anachoic chamber), some that tune their monitors to sound like the average playback system, some that strive for time and phase alignment over all, some that want you to use DSP to "tune" them to the room (at least, in the position where the measurement mic was used), etc. Some are really breathtaking to listen to, some just vanish and only leave the music, some are in between...

 

On top of that, everyone's room and taste are different, and both play as much a role in the selection of monitors as the monitors themselves - maybe even more in some cases. Everyone like different things - some like fat deep earthshaking bass and high volume when they mix, some like lower volumes that compel them to lean in just the littlest bit (me, for example). Some want to be swept up in the beauty of the work, some are more concerned with the sharpest possible scalpel...

 

The bottom line is that it really does come down to the ones that sound the best to you in your room, and that make the most sense to you when you work on them. Forums are excellent for asking questions to try and narrow it down (browse this thread when you have a few hours), and the manufacturer sites should help as well. Going to dealers only tells you so much, because the ideal monitor A/B comparison has both set of monitors being auditioned in exactly the same positioning - one after the next, being worked on with the results evaluated on their own rather than switching back and forth between different brands/models set up next to or near each other. Reviews are useful as well, but only when taken in aggregate form to see what positive and negative observations (if any) keep being repeated.

 

Ideally, find a dealer that has heard the ones you're interested in, can talk to you about your needs and make a recommendation, allowing you the flexibility and option to return them if they don't kill you in your room.

 

Here's the good news: at the upper end of the spectrum, it really is pretty hard to make a bad choice - just comes down to the ones you like best, and that you enjoy listening to and working on...so trust your ears.

 

dB

 

 

 

 

[Phil UK]

Yes, it's this old subject again! I normally play through the house/studio PA but need to pick up a powered speaker to use at bar/cafe/function room gigs (primarily for jazz piano). Needs to be loud enough (single speaker) yet at the same time light enough to carry and small enough for me to be able to sneak into the house... EV ZLX or ZXA1 or is there something better in that price range?

All advice gratefully received! Thank you.

[Theo Verelst]

As jazz piano player it's your taste in music quality that will count. I don't use those, and what I've heard from a few variations of the brand/kind I don't fancy, but if "sneaking in" is at stake..