DMC 122 Audition

[CEB]

Sounds like an ultra-modern super improved version of one of my favorite keyboards of all time. The Yamaha SK50d. Bruce has a really sweet SK50d.

[Mitch Towne]

Dave, it all comes down to how important the keybed feel is to you. And, from the way you raved about how much you liked the new Mojo, it sounds like it's pretty important!

[HammondDave]

So with the module you are at $2400 for a dual manual clone? That is reasonable.

 

certainly not unreasonable.

 

maybe when both of my older kids are out of college.

 

Pull those ungrateful kids out of college now! Buy the DMC 122 and make them be your roadies!

[LX88]

I am curious about what the difference is between the organ in the DMC 122 and VB3.

 

About the only thing I ever edit is percussion volume, because certain speakers tend to make percussion too bright. This can happen with Hammond/Leslies too, but the percussion decay pot can help with that, or you can add resistance at the preamp.

 

I am still trying to get VB3 into my computer. I am hopelessly non technical. but VB3 could be all I need if the CV and percussion volume are good.

[Doerfler]

Pull those ungrateful kids out of college now! Buy the DMC 122 and make them be your roadies!

 

I actually think if I gigged with a DMC 122 I wouldn't need roadies.

 

Not yet, anyway. Maybe in 10 years.

[HammondDave]

I am curious about what the difference is between the organ in the DMC 122 and VB3.

 

About the only thing I ever edit is percussion volume, because certain speakers tend to make percussion too bright. This can happen with Hammond/Leslies too, but the percussion decay pot can help with that, or you can add resistance at the preamp.

 

I am still trying to get VB3 into my computer. I am hopelessly non technical. but VB3 could be all I need if the CV and percussion volume are good.

 

I do not believe that percussion volume is editable on the vanilla VB3II that comes with the basic DMC 122 (without Gemini). I know that you can get soft and normal from the percussion switches. You can also edit key click, overdrive, reverb, and basic EQ from the rotary dials on the left side of the panel.

 

Again, the basic organ sounds great! I just like close microphones for some songs, and softer mikes for others. I also like to change the rotor balance and ramp up and down times. The basic settings seems to ramp up and down too fast for me.

 

Dave Bryce can double check this as he should have his DMC 122 back any time now. (Oh shit! Just realized that I still have the manual here... Sorry Dave, I will send it out today in the mail.)

[JB Sherry]

Connecting the dots here with a previous related thread...

VB3 for Mac development has been stopped for a while ( and no plans to resume that ), so I'm guessing that the VB3II that comes with the DMC is windows-only. Is that right?

 

If so, does it come with VB3 v1 for Mac?

[LX88]

Thanks for the reply Dave. One reason I ask is that the Numa percussion volume is not edit- able, but there is an update that allows for this. I just have not been able to figure it out.

 

I use slow decay so sometimes with some speakers it can get a bit loud. it's been my only issue with the Numa,

 

The possibility of having a dual manual clone at that price is tempting.

 

I hope to get to NAMM to see if they have one there. I actually like the TP 890 keys (when they get broken in).

[ABECK]

 

If so, does it come with VB3 v1 for Mac?

The software that comes with the DMC122 will run on a Mac just fine. There are absolutely no editable parameters in the 122 software. (Outside the ones that Dave mentioned above.)

The version in the Gemini is highly editable.

Go to gsidsp.com to view settings you can edit. Select an organ preset, then go to the edit engine and edit effects (rotary.)

For percussion, you have level, dropout, soft level, normal level, fast decay, and slow decay.

For rotary, you have horn slow speed, fast speed, bass rotor slow speed, bass rotor fast speed, horn and low rotor acceleration/deceleration, drive, balance, ambience, cabinet, mic angle, mic distance, Memphis mode, front stop.

 

So, it should meet most needs. Also, there are many Tonewheel sets, crosstalk, leakage, click length, and several other settings.

[Mitch Towne]

LX88, if you are mostly concerned with organ tones, get the Mojo. Much more user friendly and needs no setup. The DMC does.

[HammondDave]

LX88, if you are mostly concerned with organ tones, get the Mojo. Much more user friendly and needs no setup. The DMC does.

 

Yup.. This seems to be what I am considering. Plus some other small and not so small considerations (the DMC 122 is a pound heavier, I prefer the new Mojo Keybed, I like the wood on the Mojo, and getting a protective soft case for the DMC 1222 may be challenging,)

[HammondDave]

Connecting the dots here with a previous related thread...

VB3 for Mac development has been stopped for a while ( and no plans to resume that ), so I'm guessing that the VB3II that comes with the DMC is windows-only. Is that right?

 

If so, does it come with VB3 v1 for Mac?

 

No... VB3 v2, it worked great on my MacBook Pro.

[ZioGuido]

Connecting the dots here with a previous related thread...

VB3 for Mac development has been stopped for a while ( and no plans to resume that ), so I'm guessing that the VB3II that comes with the DMC is windows-only. Is that right?

 

If so, does it come with VB3 v1 for Mac?

 

Hi. What comes with the DMC-122 is not VB3 itself, it's a dedicated stand-alone application that is used to edit the controls of the DMC, much like for any other modern USB controller; plus, this application includes the sound engine of VB3-II, there's a window where you can set your soundcard parameters and start the audio engine. It's not a plugin, and has nothing to do with VB3 v1.

 

The DMC-122 Editor is available for both Windows and OS X.

 

Guido.

 

 

 

 

 

[PianoMan51]

From me, and I'm sure from others on this forum, THANK YOU!

[ABECK]

From me, and I'm sure from others on this forum, THANK YOU!.

Agreed! Great work as always from the GSI team!

[drawback]

The Summit of Genius that will be present at that NAMM booth will be worth my plane tickets, hotels and USD exchange!!

 

MAJOR coolness.

 

 

 

[Morizzle]

From me, and I'm sure from others on this forum, THANK YOU!.

Agreed! Great work as always from the GSI team!

 

x1000

 

Thank you Guido & Andrea for the great instruments and service!

[Jazzmammal]

I am curious about what the difference is between the organ in the DMC 122 and VB3.

 

About the only thing I ever edit is percussion volume, because certain speakers tend to make percussion too bright. This can happen with Hammond/Leslies too, but the percussion decay pot can help with that, or you can add resistance at the preamp.

 

I am still trying to get VB3 into my computer. I am hopelessly non technical. but VB3 could be all I need if the CV and percussion volume are good.

 

I think I have this right but someone can correct me if not. When you say VB3 vs the DMC, I think you're asking about the new VB3 v2. This is what the Mojo and now the DMC have which is not available by itself. It's embedded in the Mojo and it is only available as part of the editor that comes with the DMC. And, if you want to edit it with the DMC then you have to add the Gemini.

 

The only VB3 that you can get by itself is the original v1 that has been available for years. It's pretty decent but it's v2 that people are raving about right now.

 

Bob

[Kurt W]

When you say VB3 vs the DMC, I think you're asking about the new VB3 v2. This is what the Mojo and now the DMC have which is not available by itself. It's embedded in the Mojo and it is only available as part of the editor that comes with the DMC. And, if you want to edit it with the DMC then you have to add the Gemini.

So if you use the editor version it will not be possible to turn off the lesliesim and run the output through a real Leslie? Will this be possible with the Gemini version, one raw output channel for a Leslie and the other output for mono versions of the second DSP?

[Jazzmammal]

Good question. If you're using a real leslie then you need to be able to set the sim to stop so there's no chorale or simply bypass it. I would think you could do that on the front panel without using the editor but maybe not.

 

Bob

[mate stubb]

If you're using a real leslie then you need to be able to set the sim to stop so there's no chorale or simply bypass it.

 

The sim MUST be bypassed entirely if you use an external leslie. Otherwise its cabinet resonances will clash with the real cabinet resonances and your tone will be weird.

[ZioGuido]

So if you use the editor version it will not be possible to turn off the lesliesim and run the output through a real Leslie? Will this be possible with the Gemini version, one raw output channel for a Leslie and the other output for mono versions of the second DSP?

 

Yes, turning the rotary sim. off is possible even with the Editor version, the control is assigned to button n.17. And button n.18 activates the Pedal-to-lower.

 

If you take the time to give a quick look at the DMC-122 Users manual, you'll find the control map for the built-in VB3-II and some more detail about how to use it.

 

 

[ZioGuido]

Pardon if I chime in once again in this thread but someone showed me their concern about the explanation of the various versions of VB3 that are around our products. I'll try to be more detailed.

 

When we think of VB3 or any other software instrument, we generally refer to a "plug-in" which is a kind of executable that doesn't run on its own, because it needs to be opened from within another bigger application called the "host". Hosts, as we know, can be programs such as Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, etc.

 

Every host program uses its own "plug-in format", as there are many: Cubase uses the VST, Logic / Mainstage uses the Audio Unit, Pro Tools uses the AAX, other hosts might use multiple formats at the same time, for example the Mac version of Ableton Live uses both the VST and the AU formats.

 

The VB3 version 1.4 that is available on the GSi website is a plug-in in the formats of VST for Windows (32 and 64 bits) and VST/AU for Mac (only 32 bits). It is a plugin that I started back in 2003, in 2008 it was ported to the Mac platform and was last updated in 2010.

 

The VB3-II that runs inside the Crumar Mojo is a special application made specifically for the Mojo built-in hardware. It is basically an evolution of VB3 v1 that evolved since the introduction of the Hamichord in 2008 until the last update that was released in May this year.

 

The DMC-122 Editor is a stand-alone application that runs on both Windows and OSX. It is made for programming the controller capabilities of the DMC-122 but has a "bonus" function: it can also produce the sound of VB3-II, exactly the same as the Mojo with the only difference of a limited control set.

 

So the DMC-122 Editor is not a plugin, it doesn't host plugins and can't be hosted in other host applications. It's a program that runs on its own, and "includes" (like hardwired in its virtual circuits) the sound of VB3-II.

 

Then there's the Gemini: it is a hardware platform that, among the many sounds that it offers, also has the "core" of VB3-II as one of the 15 available sound engines.

 

Just to summarize, we have

- VB3 1.4: plugin VST/AU

- VB3 Crumar Edition v2: only for Mojo

- DMC-Editor with built-in VB3-II

- Gemini with VB3-II as one of its 15 sound engines

 

Now the question: "Why not VB3-II as a plugin for the Mac?"

And the answer: because making a plugin, according to a specific format, is a whole different story than making a stand-alone application. The problem is not the audio part, the problem is the "shell" of the program. I could do the DMC-122 Editor for Mac because the technology I used allowed me to make a multi-platform application pretty easily, but making a plugin of a specific format requires a different technology that, momentarily, is not at my disposal. Give me time...

 

 

 

[Kurt W]

Guido

Thanks for clarifying the possiblity to disable the lesliesimulator in the editor version of VB3, also checked the the manual as you proposed.

 

Maybe a silly question: If using the DMC with Gemini installed is it still possible to run the editor VB3, making the DMC tri-timbral?

[JB Sherry]

Guido, thank you for that detailed explanation.

[ZioGuido]

Guido

Maybe a silly question: If using the DMC with Gemini installed is it still possible to run the editor VB3, making the DMC tri-timbral?

 

Of course it is. The DMC-122 has 4 MIDI Outputs, when the Gemini is installed it takes the port n.4 named "INT" (internal), but you still have 3 ports left. If you connect your computer to the USB port and start the Editor, you can have the Editor/VB3 on the first port, the two Gemini engines on the 4th port, and you still have two more ports for other MIDI devices. Considering that the manuals can also be split, you can have four zones and direct them to whatever port or channel you wish.

 

I have recently made a SetUp on my DMC where I have the Editor/VB3 on the upper manual playing the organ upper (with percussion etc.), a synth bass on the left part of the lower manual playing the VA synth of the Gemini, and an electric piano on the right part of the lower that comes from the second engine of the Gemini. I just mapped the upper manual to out USB and Channel 1, the lower on port INT and Channel 1 and the lower split (left part) on port INT and Channel 4. Once you save the SetUp you can also instruct it to send the Program Change messages so that all presets on the receiving devices are automatically recalled.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

- VB3 1.4: plugin VST/AU

- VB3 Crumar Edition v2: only for Mojo

- DMC-Editor with built-in VB3-II

- Gemini with VB3-II as one of its 15 sound engines

The "VB3 Crumar Edition v2: only for Mojo" also runs on the Hamichord, right?

 

Regarding the "DMC-Editor with built-in VB3-II", where does the VB3-II sound engine actually reside? i.e. in the keyboard or in the computer?

[HammondDave]

Guido

Maybe a silly question: If using the DMC with Gemini installed is it still possible to run the editor VB3, making the DMC tri-timbral?

 

Of course it is. The DMC-122 has 4 MIDI Outputs, when the Gemini is installed it takes the port n.4 named "INT" (internal), but you still have 3 ports left. If you connect your computer to the USB port and start the Editor, you can have the Editor/VB3 on the first port, the two Gemini engines on the 4th port, and you still have two more ports for other MIDI devices. Considering that the manuals can also be split, you can have four zones and direct them to whatever port or channel you wish.

 

I have recently made a SetUp on my DMC where I have the Editor/VB3 on the upper manual playing the organ upper (with percussion etc.), a synth bass on the left part of the lower manual playing the VA synth of the Gemini, and an electric piano on the right part of the lower that comes from the second engine of the Gemini. I just mapped the upper manual to out USB and Channel 1, the lower on port INT and Channel 1 and the lower split (left part) on port INT and Channel 4. Once you save the SetUp you can also instruct it to send the Program Change messages so that all presets on the receiving devices are automatically recalled.

 

 

This sounds like my dream setup! Still not making it easy for me to decide....

[Doerfler]

Guido, thank you for that detailed explanation.

 

+1. Thank you.

[davyyd]

How editable is the gemini / dmc-122 combo without a computer or tablet? I see a small screen on the dmc. Can this display parameters in the gemini? I'm very intested in this setup, but don't want to add a laptop or tablet to my gig load.

 

Thank you!