Don't stop believing left hand rhythm

[Phred]

Please don't shoot me... This might seem like a weird question, but I have just started learning this tune, and I am struggling a bit with the left hand part of the studio version of the tune. The part itself is simple enough, but there are left hand 'rhythm inconsistencies' during the piano pat of the song. I figure that many of you that have had to learn the tune have either had to deal with this, or choose not to worry about it.

 

I am referring to the left hand piano (bass) part, and the pseudo randomness of either landing the bass chord change on beat and-of-4 or beat 1. Most of the time it appears that the bass part lands on the and-of-4, but several times, and not really predictable times, the rhythm changes and the bass note lands on 1.

 

- Do any of you (EscapeRocks ?) try to get it exactly like the record, and memorize the times he hits 1 vs, the and-of-4.

- Do you simply play it and-of-4 all the way through?

- Do you simulate the randomness, and play it in similar 'random' style?

- Another solution?

 

My Plan is to play it with the rhythm on the and-of-4 except for the First E after the G#->A. In other words, start the riff on the beat every 8 bars.

 

Am I over thinking this?

[WesG]

You're over-thinking this.

 

I think play it like this, and everybody likes it:

 

http://www.musicnotes.com/images/productimages/mtd/MN0044401.gif

 

Except, I play it a tone down, but you get the idea. (note: I didn't check the chart for accuracy, just LH rhythm)

 

I found getting the brass shots sorted out more difficult TBH. You know, the ones on Strangers....Streetlights...something...boulevard....shadows...searching through the [tricky part to keep legato]

 

Wes

 

EDIT: Maybe I don't play it like that after all. FFS. I wish I had a piano in my office. The point still stands, play it so it sounds good and they will like it, nobody in the audience is checking a chart and scoring you.

 

EDIT 2: finger-playing on my desk suggests that I delay the C#m bass note 'till the one.

[Phred]

Thanks.

 

That chart is not how I play it at all. The right hand seems very wrong.

 

Point taken though. 1 or and-of-4, no difference to most listeners.

 

Others?

[wineandkeyz]

Without a keyboard in front of me, I think this is what we do:

 

- The initial E in the pattern is always on the one.

- Through the instrumental intro and guitar interlude, we play the "and-of-4" timing for all the other changes.

- During the vocals, we use the "and-of-4" timing except that the C#, G#, and E are on the one.

 

No warranties are expressed or implied. When in doubt, lighten up on the left hand and let the bass player carry the pattern.

[ABECK]

Correct - I don't believe it's random. I'm pretty sure the variance is based on whether it's a vocal part or not.

[mate stubb]

My philosophy is that 100% correctness rarely matters. Play it like you mean it, and all is good.

[ABECK]

Just make sure you and the bass player are in sync.

[Skinny]

Just make sure you and the bass player are in sync.

Easy. In my band, I'm both...

[J. Dan]

Correct - I don't believe it's random. I'm pretty sure the variance is based on whether it's a vocal part or not.

 

This

 

I follow the vocal and do it different when there's no vocal.

[ademus]

This is correct. I spent two years trying to get the band to just listen to the damn song!

[ademus]

I have enormous respect for you Moe. But, having the keys hit on one and the bass and drums hitting on four and. Sounds bad. I've lived it. Don't matter how much you feel it.

[EscapeRocks]

That's one of the very few pieces of Journey sheet music that is absolutely wrong! Even Musicnotes.com has it wrong.

 

As ABECK correctly states:

The bass pattern is NOT random. Journey, to this day, plays it one way during verses, and the other way when no verses are being sung.

 

We play it like they do.

 

 

[MotiDave]

I play the "and" during intro and no verse, on the beat during first verse, switch back to the "and" between verses, and I think maybe I've played the "and" on second verse. I like playing on the "and" more, so I overdo it a bit

 

that sheet music is crap. I have a different version thats also crap, but completely different.

[The Real MC]

that sheet music is crap. I have a different version thats also crap, but completely different.

 

They're all crap sheet music unless they got daggers and chicken feet.

[EscapeRocks]

I found a pretty accurate sheet.

Notice the bass line during the verse. You can see the difference in the timing.

 

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/ds_zpsy6i6bqua.png

[MathOfInsects]

"Walking hard to get my fill"? I always thought it was "Working hard...," but this wouldn't be the first lyric I've spent my whole life hearing wrong.

 

Is OP's band a tribute band? If so, yeah, get it right. If not, just agree with the bass player. And actually, IMO, after the intro, you probably don't need the LH anyway, at least not in the verses, which means you don't even have to agree with the bass player. Just keep the RH riff going and the cougars will be happy.

 

Agree with whoever mentioned those synth stabs in the B section. People will miss those more than they'll notice if you've anticipated all the exact correct moments throughout the verses.

 

 

[EscapeRocks]

You're right, the lyrics are wrong here.

[George88]

I found a pretty accurate sheet.

Notice the bass line during the verse. You can see the difference in the timing.

 

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/ds_zpsy6i6bqua.png

 

David, I'm glad you posted this. The right hand part is completely wrong in most sheet music, but what you have is the correct right hand voicing.

[clpete]

Ahh, now I get what our bass playing is talking about.

 

My question is...what do you play once the chorus comes in? There are at least 3 guitar parts and the keys seem to go away.

[EscapeRocks]

Ahh, now I get what our bass playing is talking about.

 

My question is...what do you play once the chorus comes in? There are at least 3 guitar parts and the keys seem to go away.

 

Jonathan Cain is playing synth brass stabs during the "street light..people..." the notes, low to high in the chords are "street"- E B Eb (not sure what that chord is called) "light"- E A C# (A) "peo"- E B Eb "ple"- E B E

 

Then during the verses and signature guitar segue, it's just stabbing with a little arpeggiating of the main piano riff.

 

And also playing synth brass accents for the rest of the verses all the way thru the end.

[MathOfInsects]

As you describe it, it's technically an A lydian, but helpful to think of it as an E Maj 7 that doesn't care what the rest of the band is playing.

 

Also, completely a matter of preference, but: when I've played this song with groups, if I start, I always voice the LH as octaves and not single notes. Way more epic. You can drop back into it between verses if you and bass player are locked in nice and tight.

[clpete]

Ahh, now I get what our bass playing is talking about.

 

My question is...what do you play once the chorus comes in? There are at least 3 guitar parts and the keys seem to go away.

 

Jonathan Cain is playing synth brass stabs during the "street light..people..." the notes, low to high in the chords are "street"- E B Eb (not sure what that chord is called) "light"- E A C# (A) "peo"- E B Eb "ple"- E B E

 

Then during the verses and signature guitar segue, it's just stabbing with a little arpeggiating of the main piano riff.

 

And also playing synth brass accents for the rest of the verses all the way thru the end.

 

Thanks,

 

I have been playing something very similar to that in the chorus. I thought I was picking up a guitar part. Those chords are over an A right. What notes are you playing over the E?

[MathOfInsects]

Also, what the hell is "South Detroit"?

[Sven Golly]

Also, what the hell is "South Detroit"?

 

Windsor.

[MathOfInsects]

Also, what the hell is "South Detroit"?

 

Windsor.

 

He says "city."

 

:stick-poke thingamabobber:

 

[WesG]

MOI, how do you play octaves while maintaining legato?

[EscapeRocks]

Ahh, now I get what our bass playing is talking about.

 

My question is...what do you play once the chorus comes in? There are at least 3 guitar parts and the keys seem to go away.

 

Jonathan Cain is playing synth brass stabs during the "street light..people..." the notes, low to high in the chords are "street"- E B Eb (not sure what that chord is called) "light"- E A C# (A) "peo"- E B Eb "ple"- E B E

 

Then during the verses and signature guitar segue, it's just stabbing with a little arpeggiating of the main piano riff.

 

And also playing synth brass accents for the rest of the verses all the way thru the end.

 

Thanks,

 

I have been playing something very similar to that in the chorus. I thought I was picking up a guitar part. Those chords are over an A right. What notes are you playing over the E?

 

It is the same over the A and the E. It creates a nice tension that resolves to Amaj at the end of those sections.

[EscapeRocks]

MOI, how do you play octaves while maintaining legato?

 

Well, not sure about the legato, but Jonathan plays the bass notes as an octave at the beginning of the song. However, sometimes he does just play one note and not the octave. Usually he plays the bass notes as single note during the second verse. "A singer in a smokey room..."

 

Yes I'm a geek for knowing this stuff, but it is my gig so I have studied how he and the rest of the band play their songs live these days, compared to way back when, and do an amalgam of what sounds best in a live setting for us.

 

 

[EscapeRocks]

As you describe it, it's technically an A lydian, but helpful to think of it as an E Maj 7 that doesn't care what the rest of the band is playing.

 

Also, completely a matter of preference, but: when I've played this song with groups, if I start, I always voice the LH as octaves and not single notes. Way more epic. You can drop back into it between verses if you and bass player are locked in nice and tight.

 

Thank you! I fully concur with your next point as well. My bass player dials in the tone that Ross Valory uses and we both are locked in together. Of course, playing this song together a few bazillion times helps as well

[WesG]

ER - interesting comments, thanks. I used to play it with octaves on the one and four-and, but the connecting notes with a legato feeling, damper down, one finger per note. Going back and listening ....I have no idea what's there. It's so hard to hear with the bass player in there.

 

Your other comment is interesting, too -- I think I've been leaving the bottom note out of the brass stabs.

 

Not that it matters ATM. Current singer just can't do it in D, and I refuse to play it in C. No energy left that low. Too bad. I love that song.