Questions to ask a new band

[steve campito]

I ask three questions... where's the gig, when's the gig, and how much does it pay. If I don't like a single answer I pass on the gig. That's mostly for fill-in gigs, if it's a permanent gig I'd ask the questions you mentioned. Good luck!

[El Lobo]

We do Ace's "How Long" at the weekly jam I attend. It gets the crowd up and dancing, and now they request it. It's a fun song to play and we do solos over the Am D7 change.

 

We do it too.. We must do it in different keys though, as I can't recall an Am part at all...

Yeah. Original is in Bb. We do it in G for the vocalist. So the chorus starts on Am. In Bb, it starts on Cm so the solo is over a Cm - F change. BTW, I checked some of the usual chord sites just to be sure and also played along with the original recording. To my non-surprise, all the chord sites have the chords wrong. So it goes ...

[MotiDave]

It works OK when I get sent a "reference version" to learn, e.g a youtube video or similar.

 

Everyone gets a copy of a burned C.D. with the same version of the covers to learn as home work. That has worked the best for us, though we have been known at rehearsal to cut a lengthy intro or change something up a bit.

 

+1.

 

That is key.

 

When I've been asked to learn a song to cover, I by default learn the studio album version unless otherwise specified. I'll never understand why, when I arrive at rehearsal, the drummer has chosen to learn one live version from 2012, the guitarist another version from 2004, and the bassist another from 2007. It's maddening.

 

Which is exactly why I ask for a reference version.

 

The worst situation by far is a Dead cover band, where you've got literally hundreds of versions of the same song. Send me the one you want me to learn, please.

one of the bands I started playing with have all played the songs for a long time. They ask me to learn, first time i just went and learned the studio track. that wasn't always right, so now and I ask which version.

 

then when we play it I discover they rewrote parts of the arrangement. there is no existing version in the universe of what they actuall do. lol. i'm like dudes, i'll play any arrangement - you just have to tell me what they are.".

 

its not like their arrangements are even better. sometimes its they all learned it incorrectly together and never bothered to sort it out. crowds don't know, so they don't bother to correct. more often, they wrote a special ending to a song that fades out on studio track. easy enough, if you just tell me lolx2

[MathOfInsects]

BTW, I checked some of the usual chord sites just to be sure and also played along with the original recording. To my non-surprise, all the chord sites have the chords wrong. So it goes ...

 

 

They're sometimes wrong because guitarists tend to think only in terms of upper structure, so (for example) the minor 7th chords are all voiced as their relative major triad (Cm7 becomes Eb, an Ab moving to an Fm just remains an Ab). But more often--depressingly--they're wrong because people just flat get it wrong. Like, fascinatingly wrong.

 

On the latter kind, the comment section is usually worth the click all in itself. A series of less-careful versions of, "I'm not sure I agree with you 100% on your police-work there, Lou..." And then a bunch of incorrect corrections to the incorrections, followed by a new series of aspersions on the poster's lineage and genitals.

[cphollis]

Yep, I'm the guy in the band who's saying "that's not how it goes" when the guitar players do weak interpretations based on either their ears or bogus chords on the web. E.g. it's a Cm7 with a G in the bass -- is that so damn hard?

 

I hear every individual note in an arrangement. Real music theory, baby. No cheater chords for me. Sometimes I prevail, other times not so much.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter, as 95% of the listening audience can't tell the difference.

 

But I can.

 

Is that a problem with new bands? Yep, they don't like it when the new keyboard dude is asking hard questions about the chords, inversions, etc. I have to decide just how important it is for the music being played.

 

Interesting observation -- when I insist on playing a more accurate version over their weaker versions, sooner or later the other dudes come around.

[El Lobo]

Yep, I'm the guy in the band who's saying "that's not how it goes" ...

Yeah, I'm that guy too. Can't help it. I hear what I hear. If they're playing it wrong, it's an itch I have to scratch.

[I-missRichardTee]

Yes, Count me in on this complaint too, but let me add another twist as to why I really dislike it.

 

I play with a fairly wide circle of players ( used to be called freelancing ) and e.g. one guitar player is not only pushing me to do what I seldom do for no pay: rehearse, but then he gets all " yeah Man, this is the way we do Sade's Smooth Operator" Here is my problem learning his so called hip way, which varies a tiny bot from the original with a few chords, messes me up for any other band leader I play Smooth Operator with.

I play from memory.. I hear the melody in my head and I fill in the chords 95% correctly just with power of memory and associating the original chords with that melody

This is a more advanced way of playing harmony than when I first started playing- the melody ( lyrics to some extent too ) informs my harmony.

 

Let me give a theory example

In key of Dm there are spots in that key where you have at least 3 harmonies that can fit. Here are those chords. Bb or Gm or Eo ( I am leaving the 7th out, for simplicity sake )

To me all three of those chords overlap in the key of Dm. When I listen to original song, the choice the composer made sticks in my music memory and is filed away. When I hear that melody again, say 10 years hence, hopefully I can dredge up the correct, original chord.

If a leader gets all creative and messes with those chords and moves them around he messes with my memory of the original.

I don't know if that made sense, but I really really dislike altering the original, because NO SINGLE BANDLEADER IN THIS CURRENT ECONOMY CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME SUFFICIENT WORK ( DOLLARS ) TO JUSTIFY MY LEARNING HIS PET REHARM OF A SONG< which jeopardizes my original recall of the song.

So, yes, I really do not like it one bit! Now, I am not a complete hard ass, and I do go along to get along, but I pray I will remember the original way for other bands. But leaders get very possessive and possessiveness when they are giving you peanuts for pay over a years time, is very annoying.

[I-missRichardTee]

One more tiny detail, I would like to mention. Directions!

In the old days, a bandleader took responsibility for directions to the gig. He gave you the directions, no google maps, or yahoo nonsense.

You say, "get real, go with the times" I do, but here is the thing, GPS is not infallible, and it becomes a matter of responsibility.. band leader is responsible to client. he in turn gives directions, if I am late, I am at fault. But if google is wrong ( it happens on rare occasions ) now who is responsible?

The old way was better; actually THE CLIENT used to give directions, which makes the client responsible for directions to their venue or home. Then responsibility shifts to leader and finally to sideman.

The old way was a better way in my opinion.

[Doug White]

Who books the gigs? (Not me)

 

I think this is a very important question.

[Joe Muscara]

One more tiny detail, I would like to mention. Directions!

In the old days, a bandleader took responsibility for directions to the gig. He gave you the directions, no google maps, or yahoo nonsense.

You say, "get real, go with the times" I do, but here is the thing, GPS is not infallible, and it becomes a matter of responsibility.. band leader is responsible to client. he in turn gives directions, if I am late, I am at fault. But if google is wrong ( it happens on rare occasions ) now who is responsible?

The old way was better; actually THE CLIENT used to give directions, which makes the client responsible for directions to their venue or home. Then responsibility shifts to leader and finally to sideman.

The old way was a better way in my opinion.

I agree. Maps apps and GPS don't give you landmarks, either. You know, "look for the big cow on the sign and we're just past that."

 

This also ties into something else that's been mentioned. It used to be the bandleader would give you copies of the songs or tell you pretty specifically what versions. Now, guys are all, "it's on YouTube." Yeah, with 13,000 other crappy versions by some wankers in their bedrooms, live versions that are totally different, etc. So now *I* have to filter through all that to find the one I hope they mean.

[WesG]

I have been known to double-check the location via Google Maps Street View.

 

The last time I did not do this, I was a roadie for the gig. The guy paying me said he would take care of the directions to the gig. I pick him up, load PA etc into my van, and he whips out his phone. Which promptly gives us incorrect directions.

 

I follow the incorrect directions, even though I think they are crazy, until it becomes painfully obvious they are incorrect. The 911 number is 1700-something and the road ends at 1095 or so. It also has the wrong name on the street sign.

 

So I pull a U-turn, ignore my passenger (while he yammers on the phone to the band leader) and drive to the correct location. It's only 10 miles from my house, I should have just ignored his directions from the outset.

 

Oddly, we arrived 5 minutes late for setup. Guess how long it took to drive from the wrong location to the right one? That's right. 10 minutes.

 

Wes

[U.Honey]

Nothing, actually.

[hatricklov]

Great thread! I got something that doesn't look like it was covered (correct me if I'm wrong) or at least it's a spin-off of my second question below...

 

What do all of you do for a living or what is your day job?

 

The last group I was with included a distributor/truck-driver, a roofer, a painter (not the artsy kind) and a stocker at Target... guess each person's role/instrument in the band for fun!

 

I had/have a decent job along the with the truck driver. The other three did okay, but two of them also considered our band their second job, as in "I work TWO jobs." From my perspective, the band money helped me purchase toys and/or saved me a trip to the ATM. Next question, which I think has been covered...

 

What is your goal for this band?

 

As our band got better, we booked more places and more weekends. That was great and all, aside from it sucking away my personal life and any free weekends I had. Otherwise, it was taking away much needed money to pay bills from a couple of the other guys when I'd request a weekend off. We got to the point of booking out a year or so in advance and it was impossible to keep the calendar open, which became one of the reasons I eventually left the group. If our group took it to the next level and wanted to tour and hit bigger gigs, that would've been a deal-breaker for me. However, I'm sure the two less fortunate guys would've jumped all over that.

 

It's obviously not critical, but I think it's definitely easier when people in your group share your same priority and financial perspective the band plays in your life. Being at the same stage age-wise, and with or without kids is likely a bonus too.

[Dr88s]

it's definitely easier when people in your group share your same priority and financial perspective the band plays in your life.

 

In a leisure band, this is actually critical.

[MathOfInsects]

See, I can't do the arrive on time thing. I'm the first one at every job. I used to be embarrassed by it, but now it's a point of pride. I am not going to be the guy the bandleadeader needs to worry about. If load-in is 7:30, I'm usually there by 6:30, sometimes earlier if parking is a question mark.

 

Same on fly-ins. I'm at the airport before most of the other guys are waking up. Some OCD part of me figures, if I'm going to kill time anywhere, it might as well be on that end of the equation. The other guys roll in ten minutes before the boarding call. I know their way works, but I can't find the part of me that rests easy with it.

 

Doubles are their own story, but even then I'll sometimes stage spare equipment at the second job before heading to the first.

 

I played a double a couple of weeks ago where the first gig was fully backlined--keyboard and piano onstage. I went to the second gig and set my whole rig up in the afternoon. Everything ready to play, including two cables hanging from my mixer for the house DIs. Drove off and played the first job, then got to the second job an hour before downbeat. Other guys were still setting up. Sound guy had found my cables, guessed right about the DI's, done a line check, and had me ready to roll before I walked in the door. I was the last one there and the guy with the most time to kill.

 

OCD. The More You KnowTM.

 

[cphollis]

See, I can't do the arrive on time thing. I'm the first one at every job. I used to be embarrassed by it, but now it's a point of pride. I am not going to be the guy the bandleadeader needs to worry about. If load-in is 7:30, I'm usually there by 6:30, sometimes earlier if parking is a question mark.

 

Same on fly-ins. I'm at the airport before most of the other guys are waking up. Some OCD part of me figures, if I'm going to kill time anywhere, it might as well be on that end of the equation. The other guys roll in ten minutes before the boarding call. I know their way works, but I can't find the part of me that rests easy with it.

 

Doubles are their own story, but even then I'll sometimes stage spare equipment at the second job before heading to the first.

 

I played a double a couple of weeks ago where the first gig was fully backlined--keyboard and piano onstage. I went to the second gig and set my whole rig up in the afternoon. Everything ready to play, including two cables hanging from my mixer for the house DIs. Drove off and played the first job, then got to the second job an hour before downbeat. Other guys were still setting up. Sound guy had found my cables, guessed right about the DI's, done a line check, and had me ready to roll before I walked in the door. I was the last one there and the guy with the most time to kill.

 

OCD. The More You KnowTM.

 

Love this!

 

I'm the guy in the band who gets their early, brings spare equipment, has all the cables and adapters, etc. If it's a new venue, I'm asking all the questions about the stage, load-in, power, etc.

 

I do not do well with people who tell me "we'll just wing it". I can't tell you how many times my OCD (really just an attention to details) has saved the day for me and others in the band. Like the time I spotted that the whole band would be playing off a single dubious 10 amp circuit. Or the time the sound guy completely failed, and I was able to rig up a stage PA. Etc. etc.

 

The way I look at it, there's gotta be one of us in any band.

[cphollis]

The "what do you do for a day job?" thing can certainly be an issue.

 

My day-job career has been great for me, but I have to keep things super-low-key with others who may be just scraping by.

 

I tend not to care so much about what we're getting paid, ancillary band expenses, etc. -- but that stuff really matters to a lot of good musicians.

 

So I've learned to be ultra-sensitive.

[MathOfInsects]

I'm also a royal paineth in the royal asseth about monitor mixes. I really want to be one the guys who says, "just give me a little kick and snare and I'm happy," and then whatever the sound-guy gives them is fine. But I'm not. I'm one of those "little more....little less....in between...little more" dweebs that sound guys stick pins into voodoo dolls of after gigs.

[WesG]

I just go "more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, okay, that's enough"

 

Then the sound guy goes "Your monitor is so loud it's screwing up my mix!"

 

And I say, "What??"

 

Wes

[HammondDave]

See, I can't do the arrive on time thing. I'm the first one at every job. I used to be embarrassed by it, but now it's a point of pride. I am not going to be the guy the bandleadeader needs to worry about. If load-in is 7:30, I'm usually there by 6:30, sometimes earlier if parking is a question mark.

 

Same on fly-ins. I'm at the airport before most of the other guys are waking up. Some OCD part of me figures, if I'm going to kill time anywhere, it might as well be on that end of the equation. The other guys roll in ten minutes before the boarding call. I know their way works, but I can't find the part of me that rests easy with it.

 

Doubles are their own story, but even then I'll sometimes stage spare equipment at the second job before heading to the first.

 

I played a double a couple of weeks ago where the first gig was fully backlined--keyboard and piano onstage. I went to the second gig and set my whole rig up in the afternoon. Everything ready to play, including two cables hanging from my mixer for the house DIs. Drove off and played the first job, then got to the second job an hour before downbeat. Other guys were still setting up. Sound guy had found my cables, guessed right about the DI's, done a line check, and had me ready to roll before I walked in the door. I was the last one there and the guy with the most time to kill.

 

OCD. The More You KnowTM.

 

+1... Totally the same. I would rather show up early, get everything set up and checked, then relax at the bar and talk to beautiful women.

 

When they ask me about that sweaty guitar player who is freaking out trying to repair his sustain pedal 5 minutes before showtime, I answer "Yeah, he is our idiot guitar player. I heard he has issues like this in bed as well."

[Lindaru]

We must have our sound guy trained and also all of our band members to know exactly what their individual sound levels on their instruments must be set at for each song.

 

He basically just has to remember who is what number on his board and adjust the volume accordingly. Of course, acoustics of the place you are playing plays into that, but we trust him and occasionally someone will have to over-ride by turning their instrument up a bit, but it is mostly balanced.

 

Outdoor venues can be a bit of a paineth in the behindeth just because what you hear gets lost in the wind or breeze, and there is just so much space that it seems to get absorbed, so you often times have to have faith in what you are doing at your board and hope that it is coming through well to the audience.

[Lindaru]

When they ask me who that sweaty guitar player is freaking out trying to repair his sustain pedal 5 minutes before showtime, I answer "Yeah, he is our idiot guitar player. I heard he has issues like this in bed too."

 

Too bad they do not make a little blue pill for pedals.

 

[MathOfInsects]

Nothing worse than a soggy wah-wah.

[WesG]

"Arrive on time" is actually one of my big pet peeves. But on the (rare) days when I'm working as a roadie and part of my job is to drive - I don't get to set the schedule.

 

I once had a sound person tell me to relax when I was standing there, looking at my watch and said, "Showtime was five minutes ago...let's get a move on it". As if it wasn't bad enough that I had to be embarrassed because the show was late. GRR. It's a good thing I don't carry a gun.

 

Like drummers, keyboard players MUST be early to rehearsals and gigs. My preference is to be first. This lets me set up how and where I want to, and avoids tripping over other crap. I work with a few bands that have a lot of horn players. Man, they are always in the way.

 

When I work Big Band sound gigs, I really, really, need to get there first. First I set up the chairs, then keyboard station, then speakers, then power distro, then mic stands. If I don't get that done before the musicians show up, it winds up being a real cluster----.

[I-missRichardTee]

[

This also ties into something else that's been mentioned. It used to be the bandleader would give you copies of the songs or tell you pretty specifically what versions. Now, guys are all, "it's on YouTube." Yeah, with 13,000 other crappy versions by some wankers in their bedrooms, live versions that are totally different, etc. So now *I* have to filter through all that to find the one I hope they mean.

 

JU got it, Main. "passing the buck", was what it used to be called.

[JakeJackson]

Let me Guess...

 

Seal and Crofts

Christopher Cross

The Carpenters

Captain and Tanielle

Carole King

Dan Fogelberg

Eagles

Jimmy Buffett

 

OY...

 

Wait a second. Carole King doesn't belong in that list. OK, she wrote a lot of light pop, but she has some soul. "Way Over Yonder" can be played as pop, but I don't hear it that way. "Natural Woman"? Aretha Franklin heard something there. I still like "I Feel the Earth Move Under My Feet"? Is it an acquired taste to like the The Shirelles doing "Will You Love Me Tomorrow?" Even "Locomotion" can be fun with the right girl singers who know their doo-wop, much like the The Chiffons doing "One Fine Day," a collaboration with Gerry Goffin. And the Beatles covered "Chains." And Ms. King reads this forum, so she's going come to your next gig and ask why you put her in a list with Captain and Tanielle.

[I-missRichardTee]

Let me Guess...

 

Seal and Crofts

Christopher Cross

The Carpenters

Captain and Tanielle

Carole King

Dan Fogelberg

Eagles

Jimmy Buffett

 

OY...

 

Wait a second. Carole King doesn't belong in that list. OK, she wrote a lot of light pop, but she has some soul. "Way Over Yonder" can be played as pop, but I don't hear it that way. "Natural Woman"? Aretha Franklin heard something there. I still like "I Feel the Earth Move Under My Feet"? Is it an acquired taste to like the The Shirelles doing "Will You Love Me Tomorrow?" Even "Locomotion" can be fun with the right girl singers who know their doo-wop, much like the The Chiffons doing "One Fine Day," a collaboration with Gerry Goffin. And the Beatles covered "Chains." And Ms. King reads this forum, so she's going come to your next gig and ask why you put her in a list with Captain and Tanielle.

 

What are you going on about ( lol ) talk about subjective!

 

OT but guess what other group, I worked with, had a version of Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow"?

 

So If Carole ( OT serious trivia question: What group recorded an instrumental partly dedicated to Carole?? ) sticks a few blue notes in , she departs the company of Toni Tennile?

Just think how "soulfully" Toni sung "Love, love will keep us together" lol

Just teasing a little, before I face gigging in near 100 degree weather ouch

[JakeJackson]

Let me Guess...

 

Seal and Crofts

Christopher Cross

The Carpenters

Captain and Tanielle

Carole King

Dan Fogelberg

Eagles

Jimmy Buffett

 

OY...

 

Wait a . Carole King doesn't belong in that list. OK, she wrote a lot of light pop, but she has some soul. "Way Over Yonder" can be played as pop, but I don't hear it that way. "Natural Woman"? Aretha Franklin heard something there. I still like "I Feel the Earth Move Under My Feet"? Is it an acquired taste to like the The Shirelles doing "Will You Love Me Tomorrow?" Even "Locomotion" can be fun with the right girl singers who know their doo-wop, much like the The Chiffons doing "One Fine Day," a collaboration with Gerry Goffin. And the Beatles covered "Chains." And Ms. King reads this forum, so she's going come to your next gig and ask why you put her in a list with Captain and Tanielle.

 

What are you going on about ( lol ) talk about subjective!

 

OT but guess what other group, I worked with, had a version of Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow"?

 

So If Carole ( OT serious trivia question: What group recorded an instrumental partly dedicated to Carole?? ) sticks a few blue notes in , she departs the company of Toni Tennile?

Just think how "soulfully" Toni sung "Love, love will keep us together" lol

Just teasing a little, before I face gigging in near 100 degree weather ouch

 

Well, I fail the quiz. (But we can't judge a songwriter by bad covers, can we? Assuming that the answers involve bad covers.) OK, she wrote a lot of bubble-gum stuff, too. But at least she didn't get up on stage with a guy wearing a captain's hat or do "Muskat Love," surely one of the worst abominations to make its way onto the charts. So, what the answers?

[JakeJackson]

(For a special kind of torture, and evidence that careful planning and rehearsals mean nothing when faced with musicians of a certain caliber, you must see the immortal C and T at:

 

Wait for the magic moment at about 0:58.

 

This video should be used by the CIA for "interrogation" sessions, or to punish band members who show up late.

 

Admittedly, I've fallen OT, but this video does address the perils of playing with other musicians: how would we like to audition for these people?)

[Lindaru]

(For a special kind of torture, and evidence that careful planning and rehearsals mean nothing when faced with musicians of a certain caliber, you must see the immortal C and T at:

 

Wait for the magic moment at about 0:58.

 

This video should be used by the CIA for "interrogation" sessions, or to punish band members who show up late.

 

Admittedly, I've fallen OT, but this video does address the perils of playing with other musicians: how would we like to audition for these people?)

 

I dared watch and now may be in therapy for who knows how long.

 

 

Another case of decent pop music meets Captain Kangaroo rejects?

 

 

Our neighbor one property over is nicknamed "Captain" as he wears one of those hats all summer long.