Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Rofox]

Speaking as one who bought in, unheard, six or seven pages ago I'm delighted that this thread has made it to this far to 150.

In a band scenario I can see how the SS3 can work when bass is undertaken by a dedicated bass player but in my domestic, mainly solo, situation I'm very conscious of the lack of bottom end. My pianos lack gravitas, drums lack body, bass lacks, well....

Don't get me wrong, I like the SS3 (thanks Aspen) but if a SS4 full spectrum one piece solution came out I'd be in the front line - but probably cursing that I only had a SS3 to trade in!

In the mean time, umpteen pages back we've seen discussions about sub-bass units v's bass amps - what do long term users think?

 

[Bill Spencer]

I did a gig last night in a 600 seat theater with the SS3. Stage monitiring was inadequate and not a great soundperson. I put the SS3 in the 'standard' upright position about 10' behind me, behind everyone onstage. It was a loud band, 2 guitars, loud drummer, but the SS3 was more than adequate and sounded great. Other keyboard player used 2 Yamaha DSR112s. The Artist complained several times of not being able to hear the other keyboardist, but everyone heard me fine, and it was wide and full.

 

 

Thanks, Aspen

[cphollis]

OK, have a gig coming up where I'm *not* bringing the SSv3. It's rare, but it does happen.

 

Although it's a small venue, there's no good place to situate the SSv3. Last time i played there, it ended up in an obscure acoustic corner, and band members complained they couldn't hear me. Not blaming the SSv3, the venue was weird. Not the usual thing.

 

instead, I'm bringing self-powered PAs on poles. About 4000w worth.

 

I think that should be adequate?

 

[Doerfler]

OK, have a gig coming up where I'm *not* bringing the SSv3. It's rare, but it does happen. (snip)

instead, I'm bringing self-powered PAs on poles. About 4000w worth.

 

I think that should be adequate?

 

One would hope, Chuck.

[Danny Linguini]

OK, have a gig coming up where I'm *not* bringing the SSv3. It's rare, but it does happen.

 

Although it's a small venue, there's no good place to situate the SSv3. Last time i played there, it ended up in an obscure acoustic corner, and band members complained they couldn't hear me. Not blaming the SSv3, the venue was weird. Not the usual thing.

 

instead, I'm bringing self-powered PAs on poles. About 4000w worth.

 

I think that should be adequate?

 

If they still complain that they can't hear you, umm, I forgot how I was gonna follow that up.

 

But yeah, considering I've overpowered places with two 200's, I think 4000w worth just for your keys should about cover it.

[MathOfInsects]

It's worth mentioning that if you're using the SS3 solely for monitoring (which, believe it or not, was its intended purpose when it was introduced way back in aught-15), and you have no choice but to have it too close to you to "bloom," there is nothing stopping you from turning the Width partially or completely down and using the front-firing speaker to blow sound toward your earhole. Yes, you lose some energy, and undermine the value proposition of the amp. But for one or two gigs here or there? Not having magic 3D swirly waves is a musical first world problem.

[zaphod betamax]

What range is the Bloom? I have my CPS, less than 3' away on a wall/floor when I practice in the garage. I take it I am too close? Granted my practice place is only 8'x 14', so space is at a premium!

 

 

It's worth mentioning that if you're using the SS3 solely for monitoring (which, believe it or not, was its intended purpose when it was introduced way back in aught-15), and you have no choice but to have it too close to you to "bloom," there is nothing stopping you from turning the Width partially or completely down and using the front-firing speaker to blow sound toward your earhole. Yes, you lose some energy, and undermine the value proposition of the amp. But for one or two gigs here or there? Not having magic 3D swirly waves is a musical first world problem.

[Raymb1]

6-8 ft away from the SSV3 is when the 3D effect can be heard. You should turn the width control down and turn up slowly until you hear the 3D effect.

PS. Make sure the side speaker is reflecting off a wall, the floor or some hard surface.

[cphollis]

OK, the gig report where SSv3 wasn't the optimal solution.

 

Small bar, band stuffed in an awkward corner, hey we've all been there, right?

 

Last time we played the venue, I used the SSv3. Adequate, but because of placement issues, a less-than-satisfactory experience for the band. The audience said I sounded great, the band member complained they couldn't hear me.

 

So tonight I put a pair of self-powered PA speakers behind everyone, one on each side of the stage. Yes, more work, more cost, etc. but it was worth it. Example: the bass player came up to me afterwords and was gushing on how good I was that evening. Me, I was just playing like I always was, it was just that he could hear what I was doing.

 

Not surprising, there is no one-size-fits-all solution in the keyboard amplification world. I am still a huge SSv3 fan. I am just learning how to be a bit more judicious as to when I bring the SSv3, and when I invest the time and effort to bring a bigger rig.

[ShadowMan]

I got my SSV3 this week and am working to dial in my sound. Obviously anything with a rotating speaker effect (Nords or HX3) sound amazing, but I can't seem to get a really good piano. I have tried eq'ing on the SS, on the keyboards and on a mixer.. and can't find a setting that isn't too thin.

 

Was hoping subbing to my Barbetta might do something, but when stacked the SS lost a lot of the low end. When on top of the Barbetta it also picked up quite a ground buzz from the Barbetta- wouldn't have expected that. It also seemed the sub out wasn't giving enough level to drive the Barbetta, so I tried running into an EV ZLX 12 and got a bit closer.

 

I then sent different feeds from the mixer to the SS and the EV... but found I had to push the EV more each time I used the piano to get good bass.

 

Other than springing for a sub, can any of the SS users here make a recommendation? How are you guys getting a good piano sound - without one?

 

Thanks.

 

[cphollis]

I got my SSV3 this week and am working to dial in my sound. Obviously anything with a rotating speaker effect (Nords or HX3) sound amazing, but I can't seem to get a really good piano. I have tried eq'ing on the SS, on the keyboards and on a mixer.. and can't find a setting that isn't too thin.

 

Was hoping subbing to my Barbetta might do something, but when stacked the SS lost a lot of the low end. When on top of the Barbetta it also picked up quite a ground buzz from the Barbetta- wouldn't have expected that. It also seemed the sub out wasn't giving enough level to drive the Barbetta, so I tried running into an EV ZLX 12 and got a bit closer.

 

I then sent different feeds from the mixer to the SS and the EV... but found I had to push the EV more each time I used the piano to get good bass.

 

Other than springing for a sub, can any of the SS users here make a recommendation? How are you guys getting a good piano sound - without one?

 

Thanks.

 

Things that helped for me:

 

a) start with a brighter piano, e.g. "Silver Grand" on a Nord

b) layer in a voice with stereo content, e.g DX7 with chorus, or add stereo effects to the piano voice itself.

c) allow enough distance from the amp, go easy on the width

d) EQ to taste

[hardware]

I am kind of opposite of most guys as I send separate mixes out of my DSP Rack Mixer to FOH, IEMs and SSv3.

Once I get told IEMs sounded good, I go out front where I am more concerned about the FOH than my personal mix.

 

Then I go to my mix and never need to touch anything on the SSv3.

I use my own version of a Receptor I make myself as I require more simultaneous channels in heavily automated gigs, but the principal is the same as the Receptor, or Total Mix from RME Boxes.

But a plug in that saves me on the FOH and SSv3 is a Mono Maker.

 

It basically takes stereo signals and makes them mono on selected frequencies, usually 220 and below.

I get a better focused low end sound and the frequencies above 220 play ball much better.

 

Also elevate the cabinet and shoot it across the stage.

Got plenty of low end and run everything on the ssv3 at Noon.

 

These Henry Engineering boxes are a life saver too.

Just added some light activated sensors to run to lights.

Thunder and SFX, Arpeggiator strobe, etc.

So the RCAs I thought I'd never need came in handy.

4 x stereo outs no degradation.

Really excellent build quality too.

 

If the ROMplers don't have control over stereo spread or can be monotized maybe try a Y plug.

Personally I have to have stereo as our PA is in stereo, so I need to hear the EPs panning, etc.

 

http://s8.postimg.org/48ubzcphx/IMG_0852.jpg

screenshot on pc

 

[hardware]

Just curious though has Aspen suggested a small sub worthy of the SSv3 that doesn't suck my gain stage?

I hate to fish through thousands of pages.

Any help appreciated.

[Doerfler]

Jimmy -

 

Gain stage is only "sucked" if going first into the subwoofer from your mixer then through the sub's crossover into the SS3. Get yourself a decent crossover, go from your mixer to the crossover to the speakers and it won't matter what sub you use. You have, in essence, your own PA system.

About a year ago I saw JA use a Yamaha DXS 12 with his CPS SS3 for an Organissimo gig. He was kicking pedals and it was smoking hot. It's probably overkill for most folks, though.

[Al Coda]

Jimmy -

 

Gain stage is only "sucked" if going first into the subwoofer from your mixer then through the sub's crossover into the SS3.

 

That´s only reported for the Behringer "B1200 D Pro" sub, possibly caused by it´s HP-filtered output(s) x-over design introducing gain loss.

 

@hardware:

 

In SCOPE on XITE-1, you could probably use DAS/GOST FIR LINEAR PHASE CROSSOVER (2 ways FIR audio filter plugin),- 2nd item on this page .

Then use separate outputs on your DA converter connected to XITE-1 and drive SSv3 and an active bass cab/sub separately.

 

A.C.

[timwat]

Other than springing for a sub, can any of the SS users here make a recommendation? How are you guys getting a good piano sound - without one?

 

Thanks.

 

Well, it's going to be subjective for sure. For me, keep in mind I'm using a CP4. I use the brightest AP (the CFX). I stack my SS on a GK MB112 mk 2 bass amp. Sub out from the SS into the input of the bass amp. Roll off the HF and Upper MF to taste. Not really looking to hear a lot of the bass amp, more to "feel" the substance of the lower octave that is hefty on a real grand piano, but really anemic with the SS alone. I also use the 5 band eq on the CP4 to dial in a better balance between ranges on the KB.

 

That's the best AP sound I've gotten out of it so far, at least to my ears.

 

Admittedly, it's inconvenient to bring the bass amp, despite it being very light. There have been some gigs (like Friday PM's) where I'll just bring the SS, despite knowing it's not going to be the AP sound I really desire.

[drawback]

Other than springing for a sub, can any of the SS users here make a recommendation? How are you guys getting a good piano sound - without one?

 

Thanks.

 

Well, it's going to be subjective for sure. For me, keep in mind I'm using a CP4. I use the brightest AP (the CFX). I stack my SS on a GK MB112 mk 2 bass amp. Sub out from the SS into the input of the bass amp. Roll off the HF and Upper MF to taste. Not really looking to hear a lot of the bass amp, more to "feel" the substance of the lower octave that is hefty on a real grand piano, but really anemic with the SS alone. I also use the 5 band eq on the CP4 to dial in a better balance between ranges on the KB.

 

That's the best AP sound I've gotten out of it so far, at least to my ears.

 

Admittedly, it's inconvenient to bring the bass amp, despite it being very light. There have been some gigs (like Friday PM's) where I'll just bring the SS, despite knowing it's not going to be the AP sound I really desire.

 

Exactly what I do, but with a GK MB150E which isn't deep enough to stack but I prefer to place my SS horizontally on a stand anyway.

 

 

[MotiDave]

I suspect the b1200 became legendary in these pages based on price.

[BornAgnMusician]

I use a M-Audio BX sub. I think it works great. I use a Harrison Labs PFMod passive crossover between my keyboards and the SS+Sub. I set them up to cross at 100Hz as Aspen suggested. I get a much higher level of volume before funny noises start showing up. I've found if I'm only playing piano or organ with no real bass, no crossover is needed. But I set up with the crossover all the time anyway. It provides me more consistency in what I'm hearing.

[hardware]

@hardware:

 

In SCOPE on XITE-1, you could probably use DAS/GOST FIR LINEAR PHASE CROSSOVER (2 ways FIR audio filter plugin),- 2nd item on this page .

Then use separate outputs on your DA converter connected to XITE-1 and drive SSv3 and an active bass cab/sub separately.

 

A.C.

 

That is an excellent idea.

Eric from DAS made the Brainrox Mono Maker, as well as the Fairlight COnstellation COnsole.

I know his work well and will definitely use that idea.

Just waiting for the key from Soniccore...

 

 

Danke Bruda Man...

[hardware]

Jimmy -

 

Gain stage is only "sucked" if going first into the subwoofer from your mixer then through the sub's crossover into the SS3. Get yourself a decent crossover, go from your mixer to the crossover to the speakers and it won't matter what sub you use. You have, in essence, your own PA system.

About a year ago I saw JA use a Yamaha DXS 12 with his CPS SS3 for an Organissimo gig. He was kicking pedals and it was smoking hot. It's probably overkill for most folks, though.

 

Thanks Dave.

I keep forgetting most guys here aren't coming out front with Dual 18's, which is where I probably get a little extra help as I am directly behind the Cabinets.

Might do a small gig sometime where a Sub would help out.

Especially with the DSP Plug AlCoda suggested and Mono Maker.

 

Cheerz

[Al Coda]

 

Danke Bruda Man...

 

you´re welcome ! ... as always.

 

edit:

 

I would probably work good w/ the small Behringer sub and DAS x-over, just because the gain loss is happening only, when going from mixer into the Behringer sub 1st, then run via it´s HP-filtered outputs to the SSv3.

Once you adress both separately, there´s no gain loss anymore.

 

Most of the pro subs are definitely overkill for the SSv3.

 

And, as a reminder,- when going w/ a HP-filtered signal into the SSv3 directly, it renders the SSv3´s mono-line (sub) out useless as a signal going fullrange mono to PA ´cause that is what comes in into the SSv3 !

 

 

A.C.

[hardware]

Hey Al C.

 

Could you post a pic of a Project Window so I could see the I/Os and MIDI connections...?

 

Ankyu

[hardware]

Found the manual AC..

Thanks.

 

http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com/plugins/Manuals/FIR-linear-phase-crossover-manual.htm

[Al Coda]

Hey Al C.

 

Could you post a pic of a Project Window so I could see the I/Os and MIDI connections...?

 

Ankyu

 

Read that too late ...

I´m busy preparing for my move march 29.

Disassemble my humble studio and have to pack all in racks fitting the truck.

 

The DAS x-over has stereo ins and 2 stereo outs only, no MIDI.

Glad you´ve found the online manual.

 

Let me know how it works for you.

 

best

 

A.C.

[ShadowMan]

Rehearsed with the SS3 tonight and was amazed at the level it put out. Kept pace with a fairly loud band. Boy, was everyone impressed with it. I had it tilted back about 7 feet behind me...probably not optimal for me though - as it sounded a bit shrill to me on some organ and piano parts, even though I eq'ed my Nord.

 

So I am probably going to augment it it with a sub or bass amp. The Behringer sub repeatedly mentioned here at $300 seems a bargain, but I'm wondering if popping the extra bucks and spending $400 for a small bass amp would offer more flexibility.

 

I would welcome feedback from both sides on this...

 

Thanks

[drawback]

Hey ShadowMan, if you're satisfied with just the SS3 in the live band context, my bid would be for you to look at the bass amp.

 

I had the Behringer B1200D and had originally chosen it over an amp because 1) it can receive your L+R and distribute both sides to your SS and to FOH; 2) crossover; 3) cheap & light but full featured for the money. It really does suck a small bit of gain going to the SS, though, but not a real biggie especially since the FOH option is there for reinforcement.

 

That was fine until I got a few gigs asking for LH Bass.

 

So the best solution for LHB became routing my bass to separate output channels on the NS2, out to a bass amp. The other output channels for traditional keyboard sounds route directly to the SS, and then I take a lead from the SS3's sub out to a separate channel on the bass amp and EQ the high/mids down to get the extra bottom end I need for pianos/organ.

 

The SS has so much headroom in that configuration I've never had to turn it up past 12:00. Also with a bass amp you'll get more tonal options, while a sub basically gives you thump.

 

Cheers.

[Raymb1]

Unless you're playing the bass lines, Aspen recommended that sub just be barely heard. The sub at the same volume as the SS3 would be way too loud and you'd get dirty looks from your bassist!

[Al Coda]

Unless you're playing the bass lines, Aspen recommended that sub just be barely heard. The sub at the same volume as the SS3 would be way too loud and you'd get dirty looks from your bassist!

 

Using a sub thru x-over w/ SSv3 is all about protecting the small 8" front woofer and 6.5" side speaker as well as the SSv3´s amps from low frequency content.

The sound of SSv3 will benefit from more headroom that way and when used w/ a loud band.

 

Exactly this isn´t the case when feeding the fullrange signal to the SSv3 and going mono from sub-out to a bass-amp.

 

The sub doesn´t have to be loud to do that job.

It also doesn´t have to be the Behringer B1200D Pro sub when using an external x-over.

 

A.C.

 

[Doug Robinson]

Shadowman, far be it from me to discourage buying more gear, but if the SS3 is new for you then I suggest waiting, tweaking and getting used to the sound first. my first impression in a rehearsal was very different from my second impression and my third impression--it takes time to fiddle with the EQ and positioning to find your optimal setup. At that point, of course if you feel strongly about getting a sub or a bass amp, go for it. But I've been gigging nonstop with rocking' blues bands and while I used a bass amp at first I realized it really wasn't necessary.