Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Bill Spencer]

 

No need to paint the Spacestation grill if you want to avoid the logo...just flip it inside out...its black with no logo on the inside, and fits exactly.

 

Hmmm... is yours an SS3? On mine the grille isn't black on the inside, or reversible, it's like a cookie sheet, 3/4" lip on all sides..

[rockinredeye]

That darned Aspen! Oatmeal raisin is his favorite I think.

[hardware]

I bought the go rack for a pair of QSC K12s replaced by the SSv3, that are now wedges.

Works great for vocals.

 

I use PianoTeq so I was happy with the SSv3 sound, it's basically for other mates that wont break down and buy IEMs.

 

But recently bought the B1200, run stereo in and stereo out to SSv3.

But took a spare Bellari Tube Exciter w/ RCA 5751 Command tubes and Analog Devices opamps x 3 to see if I could tame the tweeter and give some more dirt to the pristine SSv3 and it sounds fantastic.

 

Like it better than my clean IEMs.

Low gain Tubes allows me to drive them harder and everything got bigger and better.

 

The cabinet continues to impress me.

Also tried a dbx dual 15 band eq and it did what I expected but no ooomph.

 

Bellari RP562 would be bad ass on any rig not using a PC.

But day-amn Kontakt Broadway Big Band, PLAY Hollywood Strings, Keyscape Rhodes and Zebra2 HZ get a big leap to fat bastard status.

[jbolazzi]

No downside for my hears! Mainly getting better defined AP sound and some gain DB. Only doubt is about the bass. I possibly lost some bass but I cannot confirm it,(quite subjective and depending upon too many parameters outside of the amp) Low end is still good enough for AP in any case. A more scientific approach would be appropriate to draw any valid conclusion and may some slight pass band filtering tuning could also help Optimizing this new set-up

[cdom]

Hi jbolazzi. As a Nord Stage and Casio PX-5S owner, I'm curious to know which "acoustic piano" you are using to test the Italian.

[Bill Spencer]

For those of you waiting to take the plunge:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Spacestation3

[jbolazzi]

I am playing physispiano from viscount

[Aspen]

No downside for my hears! Mainly getting better defined AP sound and some gain DB. Only doubt is about the bass. I possibly lost some bass but I cannot confirm it,(quite subjective and depending upon too many parameters outside of the amp) Low end is still good enough for AP in any case. A more scientific approach would be appropriate to draw any valid conclusion and may some slight pass band filtering tuning could also help Optimizing this new set-up

 

This is a great audio adventure your have taken us all on, and I thank you so much for sharing.

 

When I read the specs, and compared it to my Eminence CX2008 (no longer in general production, onky custom made for SS3), I imagined the results you are posting. IMHO, your perceived loss of bass is probably more the result of a higher SPL in the Mid and HF Range...as one would expect with this high quality driver coax. So while I didn't think it could possibly produce MORE bass, give the small box, I did imagine the neo driver could up the SPL in the mids and HF....and so relatively less bass.

 

It is also nice to know the install went fairly easy, and that it is readily available from Parts Express and eBay for about $330. (but maybe like their wine, it is much less expensive in Italy?)

 

Now, whether this is 'worth the price and effort' for others here, I certainly can not say. Sound is so subjective...is a Steinway worth trice the price of a Yamaha? Sometimes! But if it makes your APs better, and you are using it primarily for APs...then by all means...why not?

 

However, bang for buck...the CX2008 is an AMAZINGLY good speaker. Frankly spoken, Eminence cut me a great price so I an offer it to you in my package WAY under it's former retail value (around $175-200) back when it was in the line. It may sound crazy, but adding that Italian Job would about double the cost to you for a SS3!

 

To explain, and give you guys a peek behind the Wizzard of Manufacturing 'pricing' curtain, the BOM (bill of materials, all the components less labor and overhead) as a rule of thumb is usually 1/5th the final 'MSRP' price. So, if you multiple the raw cost of any component you are considering to use in your product by 5, that is roughly what it will add to the final MSRP (retail price). Of coarse these days the end user is paying about 20% less than MSRP (or MAP), so maybe 4:1 is a closer formula to final 'selling price".

 

Some company may have a lower BOM:MSRP ratio, becasue they sell direct like Carvin, or like APD (me) which runs around 3:1, mostly because of my unusual business model; I have no employees, do not do any paid advertising, own my building and my patents, and I have no reps, distributors or multiple levels dealers...but just one Dealer Partner in each market area like USA (Sweetwater) or Europe (Thomann)...so I kinda 'sell direct' too.

 

However, some companies have much higher Ratios because the spend a fortune on advertising and marketing...and because their brand can demand a higher price. And why not, this is a free country! Rules of this forum forbid me mentioning names in degrading terms, but there is one company in our industry with a 20:1 ratio!

 

Speaking just for myself, I can not afford to use a slightly better speaker at a cost of $300+ per SS3. I would price myself out of the market.

 

But I am really glad jbolazzi has now 'gone for it', and saved me the time and money to test it out for you. Congrats again on a great audio adventure and your excellent post here!

 

[dsetto]

I was interested in your take on jbolazzi's mod. ... Eager to finally get into an SSv3.

[cphollis]

YAGR -- yet another gig report, but this one is different ...

 

Played in a parking lot this evening. Yes, I know I get all the glamorous gigs. But there was plenty of stage space, which was nice for a change

 

So I set up the SSv3 a good ten feet from my ears: amp stand, sideways, side-firing speaker facing down. WOW!!! I got to hear the full bloom that only others usually get to hear. B3s, EPs and synths sounded amazing as usual. But the APs actually shimmered and sparkled.

 

Eye-opening (ear-opening?) experience. A few folks came up during the break, and asked what I was doing for sound. Nords + SSv3. They got the Nord thing, but I had to do a bit of explaining on the SSv3. They thought I was playing through the PA. No, I wasn't. No one could believe a little compact box could put out so much sound.

 

The sound was powerful, rich and deep. More than enough bass, really. I was really hammering on low piano octaves, and it sounded great.

 

The SSv3 benefits from having space to breathe. That doesn't happen in a lot of venues I play in, unfortunately.

 

Although I think I'm going to spring for the Italian Job mod before long. Love the SSv3 form factor and electronics, just need a bit more sweetness in the AP range.

 

 

[cdom]

Although I think I'm going to spring for the Italian Job mod before long. Love the SSv3 form factor and electronics, just need a bit more sweetness in the AP range.

Indeed, I have sprung for the Italian. I'm hoping she arrives before the holiday weekend so that I can install, post-turkey. I will report back ASAP.

[Al Quinn]

That's great cdom. I'm looking forward to hearing about your experience. I'm considering the Italian speaker upgrade as well.

[Al Quinn]

I'm wondering if the Ciare NDCX8 8" coax speaker is also a good upgrade choice and how it compares on paper to the Faital 8" coax. Hopefully, Aspen (or anyone else with speaker expertise) can chime in on this.

 

[cdom]

I contacted Parts Plus yesterday... The Italian is BO'd and won't arrive until the first week of December. I'll keep you posted.

[jbolazzi]

Hi Aspen,

thank you for your inputs.

I actually got the speaker in Italy for about 220$. (from www.axiomedia.it)

email: gaia@axiomedia.it

 

Will be good to have a second opinion soon about the actual improvement.

 

 

 

 

[Aspen]

YAGR -- yet another gig report, but this one is different ...

 

Played in a parking lot this evening. Yes, I know I get all the glamorous gigs. But there was plenty of stage space, which was nice for a change

 

So I set up the SSv3 a good ten feet from my ears: amp stand, sideways, side-firing speaker facing down. WOW!!! I got to hear the full bloom that only others usually get to hear. B3s, EPs and synths sounded amazing as usual. But the APs actually shimmered and sparkled.

 

Eye-opening (ear-opening?) experience. A few folks came up during the break, and asked what I was doing for sound. Nords + SSv3. They got the Nord thing, but I had to do a bit of explaining on the SSv3. They thought I was playing through the PA. No, I wasn't. No one could believe a little compact box could put out so much sound.

 

The sound was powerful, rich and deep. More than enough bass, really. I was really hammering on low piano octaves, and it sounded great.

 

The SSv3 benefits from having space to breathe.

 

Thanks for this great gig report Chuck. I am always asked how SS3 works outdoors without walls and ceiling...it seems counter intuitive but it does work really well!

 

Great for you to be able to get that far away from it. To hear it at a distance I believe is a real confidence builder.

 

I remember hearing it at Disney Hall, I was in the 4th balcony section way up near the ceiling of that amazing concert hall. Geoff Stradling was on a Nord organ thru the SS3 featured with the LA Philharmonic with every other instrument (except the vocalist) acoustic. I was perhaps 300 feet away, but Geoff was clear as a bell and the bloom was everywhere...and unmistakable. It really sounded just like a Hammond thru a Leslie!

 

The first time I heard a band with all instruments and vocals (except drums) playing thru a mixer and a single SS3 at a outdoor party I was really surprised, it worked well beyond everyones expectations.

 

As you say, the SS3 likes those wide outdoor open spaces as well as those big rooms with terrible acoustics. CPS does like room to bloom.

 

Thanks again for your report and confirmation on this...so now others should feel comfortable to try it at their next outdoor gig.

[TomKittel]

I am ready to go for the Faital 8HX200 speaker upgrade. Before I pull the trigger: does the 8 ohms resistance match the CX2008?

 

One mor thought on the upgrade: the Faital has a frequency range of 1,500 to 20,000 Hz. Doesn't that mean that the separate tweeter in the SSV3 becomes redundant? If so, could the tweeter in the SSV3 simply be disconnected?

[cphollis]

I am ready to go for the Faital 8HX200 speaker upgrade. Before I pull the trigger: does the 8 ohms resistance match the CX2008?

 

One mor thought on the upgrade: the Faital has a frequency range of 1,500 to 20,000 Hz. Doesn't that mean that the separate tweeter in the SSV3 becomes redundant? If so, could the tweeter in the SSV3 simply be disconnected?

 

Guys, the Faital was just a suggestion of a potential upgrade that I made a while back and people jumped on to it. Other options are available, including Beyma and Ciari. No real data as to what might be the "best" choice, other than looking at specs.

 

http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%208cx300ndn-1.htm

http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%20ndcx8-1.4-1.htm

 

Aspen said to watch out for mechanical clearance, don't assume all candidates will fit. All are 8 ohms, as is the CX2008.

 

No opinion as to whether the supertweeter becomes redundant after upgrade. I'll keep mine connected unless it produces unfavorable results. Don't forget that there's a crossover in there already directing traffic.

 

[tnelson]

There may be advantages to swapping speakers in your SSv3. However, if your goal is purely to eliminate the coloration you hear with AP, and your rig already includes a laptop, you should be able to calibrate your SSv3 with EQ to do this, as I described a few pages back. A replacement speaker with different characteristics may just introduce a new spectrum of coloration.

[Al Coda]

A replacement speaker with different characteristics may just introduce a new spectrum of coloration.

 

I also wonder why some guys now want to mod the SSv3 just because of the playback of sampled and/ or modelled acoustic piano.

The SSv3´s cabinet is what it is ´cause it´s (computer-) designed and calculated for the original speaker combo.

Any other speaker might not or won´t match the cabinet specs,- size, bass reflex openings/ tuning pipes.

 

So,- even when slight advantages might come up for the sampled/modelled acoustic piano playback, other disadvantages might be introduced when it comes to other sounds then.

 

A.C.

[cdom]

I also wonder why some guys now want to mod the SSv3 just because of the playback of sampled and/ or modelled acoustic piano...

"These go to eleven."

 

[TimA]

Hi Chuck.....the Beyma seems to require their own proprietary crossover. Do you think it would work in the ssv3? Just asking because I've heard very good things about them.

[cphollis]

Hi Chuck.....the Beyma seems to require their own proprietary crossover. Do you think it would work in the ssv3? Just asking because I've heard very good things about them.

 

Not the expert here. I would presume that Beyma and other manufacturers might offer a crossover that's optimized for their components. Doesn't mean that it won't work (and perhaps work well) with other crossovers. A speaker is a speaker.

[cphollis]

A replacement speaker with different characteristics may just introduce a new spectrum of coloration.

 

I also wonder why some guys now want to mod the SSv3 just because of the playback of sampled and/ or modelled acoustic piano.

The SSv3´s cabinet is what it is ´cause it´s (computer-) designed and calculated for the original speaker combo.

Any other speaker might not or won´t match the cabinet specs,- size, bass reflex openings/ tuning pipes.

 

So,- even when slight advantages might come up for the sampled/modelled acoustic piano playback, other disadvantages might be introduced when it comes to other sounds then.

 

A.C.

 

Guess I'm going to have to try it and see

[cdom]

My Italian has arrived, and she's a beautiful piece of technology. I won't be able to perform the transplant until after the weekend, so sit tight...

[Al Coda]

No opinion as to whether the supertweeter becomes redundant after upgrade. I'll keep mine connected unless it produces unfavorable results. Don't forget that there's a crossover in there already directing traffic.

 

The supertweeter doesn´t become obsolete ´cause SSv3 is tri-amped for the front.

 

Consequently there´s a x-over between mid- and HF-tweeter (LPF for the mid-range horn and HPF for the super tweeter)- AND there´s a separate power amp (40W) for the tweeter.

 

Disconnecting the tweeter results in losing 40W RMS of power.

 

A.C.

[TomKittel]

My Italian has arrived, and she's a beautiful piece of technology. I won't be able to perform the transplant until after the weekend, so sit tight...

 

Good luck for the transplant! It would be great if you could post a couple of pics.

[cphollis]

My Italian has arrived, and she's a beautiful piece of technology. I won't be able to perform the transplant until after the weekend, so sit tight...

 

Good luck for the transplant! It would be great if you could post a couple of pics.

 

Actually, nirvana would be some A/B audio clips. Hard to do, I know, but that's the bit that matters

[cdom]

Actually, nirvana would be some A/B audio clips. Hard to do, I know, but that's the bit that matters

 

cphollis,

 

Pics and step-by-step documentation... Easy-peasey.

 

Perhaps a low-volume, A/B, controlled-environment recording using my cheap Zoom recorder (along with a biased, untrained-ears-commentary) WOULD be entertaining.

 

What I'm really anxious to learn is if this transplant makes a significant difference to my acoustic piano sound when I perform with my LOUD rock-blues-funk-fusion band...

 

 

[Aspen]

No opinion as to whether the supertweeter becomes redundant after upgrade. I'll keep mine connected unless it produces unfavorable results. Don't forget that there's a crossover in there already directing traffic.

 

The supertweeter doesn´t become obsolete ´cause SSv3 is tri-amped for the front.

 

Consequently there´s a x-over between mid- and HF-tweeter (LPF for the mid-range horn and HPF for the super tweeter)- AND there´s a separate power amp (40W) for the tweeter.

 

Disconnecting the tweeter results in losing 40W RMS of power.

 

A.C.

Have to chime in to agree with A.C. here; please leave the tweeter connected...no harm done. And also, if you simply turn down the HFQ level you HAVE effectively disconnected the tweeter anyway. So just try it and see, then season to taste.

 

My guess is you will still like to leave a bit of HFQ in the mix as it probably will add something nice to the coax you have chosen. I'll be curious to hear what you think, so keep us posted.