Live 'Gear'gonomics: Talk about your setup

[vonnor]

Hey all, I just spent a few days browsing these forums and didn't see any definitive discussion on how players run their rigs for live shows. I wanted to share my setup and maybe get some ideas from y'all.

 

I am using a control setup I put together back in '89 for a 80's/top 40 cover band and it still works great. My main beef on stage is manual program changes. You know, when the front-man decides to throw Human League in between Mellencamp and Tom Petty at the last second, and the drummer is already clicking off the four?

 

I am using a Lake Butler Midi Mitigator foot pedalboard to send program change messages to a Digital Music MX-8 midi patchbay/processor. The song title shows on the foot board and I can step through song titles without actually sending any pgm change, so even when the set list is ganked at the last minute I can just queue up the song and hit the switch (I use the 'A' for song initialization) and BAM. The MX-8 switches to the corresponding patch, sets up the ins and outs routing for the song, and does all the program changes for the boards and modules.

 

Right now I have a moXF8 and a Juno Stage, with a Hammond XM-2 in the rack. The Yamaha and Roland are both set to User Performances by default, so those normally do my splits/layers. Local control is always off. MX-8 echos the output back to input when needed. Hammond is always on midi channel 3-4 (upper/lower) and I let processor A in the MX-8 do the zone-channel split for that.

 

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Koda_Vonnor/Misc/NewRig_sm.jpg

 

Any of you have any cool on-stage tricks for easier transitions/patch changes or controller routing?

 

~ vonnor

 

 

[J. Dan]

I can tell you the last 3 ways I've handled that.

 

The oldest way was back in the day using an Alesis Datadisk. The cool thing about that was a patch number could trigger essentially a little sequence with all of my patch changes, sysex, etc. so every song had a PC# associated with it! which I printed on the set list, along with a list of songs in Alohabetical order in case I needed to find one quick. I could punch in the number for the next song and nothing happened until I hit enter.

 

Next rig was controlled by an Alesis Fusion. I did everything in Song mode even if it was just a patch, that way I didn't have to jump around. It had a nice "arrange" feature that made it easy too put the "songs" in order of the list. If something was called out of order, I could enter arrange menu and cue it up while still playing, and it wouldn't change until I hit enter.

 

But by far, the best now is set list mode in my Kronos. Touch the block with the song name. I put all the songs we do in there so if we add one, it's in there towards the end of the lst.

[bloodyMary]

I can tell you the last 3 ways I've handled that.

 

The oldest way was back in the day using an Alesis Datadisk.

 

 

This sounds incredibly cool.

 

I wish they'd make a new DataDisk with USB stick instead of floppies..

 

Of course today one could use a small laptop (netbook?) and playback these little sequences using just about any audio player (winamp? windows media player?)

 

But the convenience and robustness of a piece of hardware beats the laptop.

 

 

 

 

I really miss a numerical keypad on my Yamaha (this is what I use for Master Control)..

 

 

 

 

 

My current rig is:

 

Yamaha MOX controlling a laptop.

 

I'm always in Master Mode, which allows me to split/layer internal sounds from the MOX and sounds from the laptop.

 

On the laptop I run a couple of samplers, with different instruments mapped to diff. channels. No scene changes on the laptop. The zone mappings are inside the Yamaha.

 

 

No pics yet, this rig saw just one gig (this weekend)

[MorayM]

I started out with a bit of a Frankensteined setup of rack units and MIDI mergers and splitters, with a laptop on top sending PC/SYSEX to each one. It wasn't a lot of fun, and the MIDI panic button got an awful lot of use...

 

At the moment the Fantom is the heart of the rig, and generally I have everything slaved to its performance mode. Queue up the songs for the gig and just keep hitting the "Next" pedal. Takes a bit of planning to get everything programmed, but it's SO worth it!

 

It's become a bit more complicated as I've started using the JP-8000 as a MIDI controller as well as using its internal sounds (e.g. need piano the full length of the Fantom and organ on a lightweight action, before later switching to an analogue pad), but I normally have enough time to use the patch change buttons to handle it. I've read some interesting posts on the Roland Clan forums about using the Fantom's song mode to trigger PC messages to external gear, but I've never been brave enough to try it.

[nickd]

I've used a Behringer BCN44 to send out patch change and other MIDI messages that can be set up and saved on the device.

 

The manual claims it's got a 'learn' function that can handle sets of multiple MIDI messages including SysEx, but I've never tried to use that feature.

 

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/BCN44.aspx

http://www.behringer.com/assets/BCN44_P0321_Right_View.jpg

[johnnyd]

Hey Vonnor

What kind of stand is your rack sitting on?

I've been looking for something like that for some time.

Nice Rig!

I'm with J.Dan. The Kronos is a Godsend with it's "Set List" mode

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Alesis Datadisk.

Yeah, I had the Alesis data disk. Pretty cool device back in its day. Its main use for me was backing up my Ensoniq keyboards. Eventually sold it to someone who wanted to use it with her Korg Trinity. It really had a lot of cool features.

[DanL]

I have a 3 board setup. Yamaha S70XS, Nord Stage Compact, and Moog Phatty. I use the Master mode on the Yamaha to change everything, with midi out going to the Nord, and the Nord out going to the Moog. The Yamaha will send a program change to the Nord, which in turn will send a program change to the Moog. It's a simple setup this way- a midi splitter would be more sophisticated, but would be more to set up. With the Master mode, any song is 2 button presses away- bank and program number. You might want to check that out with your MOX, it'd eliminate that footpedal controller. You could still use the MX8 for the midi routing.

 

With the Floyd band, I also have a desktop sampler and a netbook that runs a sequence for On the Run. When I use that, the sampler is standalone- all of my samples are assigned to pads so there is no loading/program changes involved. With the netbook, I use an M-Audio Fast Track Pro from the usb out, then midi out of that into a merge box which goes right to the Moog. The other side of the merge box comes from the Nord. It's not the most efficient way of doing things, but I will tweak that to make the setup/cabling easier. I have a Windows 8 tablet that I'll replace the netbook with in a few weeks. I'm also going to look into using it as more of a rig controller and possibly run some VST's when needed.

 

My rack is to my left like yours is, on a flat stand. The sampler, netbook, and audio interface sit on top. At some point I might Velcro the interface and midi merge into the rack so I can leave some of it prewired. The rack has a power distribution, line mixer, reverb unit for the Nord organ which I run on a separate output and feed from the reverb into a Ventilator and then into the mixer. It also has an EQ for tweaking the room and for handling a monitor return from the PA to get vocals and instruments into my in ears or K10 powered speaker depending on the venue.

[KeyMoe]

I used the MX8 for years and still have it somewhere packed away. Great tool for routing midi .......loved it.

 

Currently using a simple rig, S70 XS and a SK1 on top......

[vonnor]

...What kind of stand is your rack sitting on?...

Ultimate Support Systems T-connectors and some cannibalized tubing from a couple A-frames. Best '80's invention ever. Just cut the tubes to length with a plumbers rotary pipe-cutter. I added two big plastic "feet" to the MOXF that fit down into the top of the open tubes in front. The keyboard becomes a structural part of the stand, there's no cross-bar in front. The Roland sits on the standard support brackets with the little pins in front to keep it in place.

 

I'll post a pic when I get home from work.

 

~ vonnor

[blong5150]

...What kind of stand is your rack sitting on?...

Ultimate Support Systems T-connectors and some cannibalized tubing from a couple A-frames. Best '80's invention ever. Just cut the tubes to length with a plumbers rotary pipe-cutter. I added two big plastic "feet" to the MOXF that fit down into the top of the open tubes in front. The keyboard becomes a structural part of the stand, there's no cross-bar in front. The Roland sits on the standard support brackets with the little pins in front to keep it in place.

 

I'll post a pic when I get home from work.

 

~ vonnor

 

I think he was asking about what the 6U Rack was sitting on. I've been looking for a solution also.

[johnnyd]

Yes the stand the rack is on.

Iwas thinking of chopping up an old x stand and having it re- welded .

Actually, a mini x stand would be ideal,but there seems to be no such thing.

[J. Dan]

I have a similar stand, it's an amp/mixer stand, except mine isn't tall enough to use for my rack so I put it on an X stand.

 

Mine is like This

[johnnyd]

That amp stand would be A1 if it was taller.I also use an old x stand with a piece of plywood across the top,but it takes a lot of room on stage

[SpaceNorman]

I use one of these for my rack. It folds smaller and is much more sturdy than an "X" stand. Plus it offers a little bit of flexibility in terms of leg placement. I run my stage monitoring in stereo (using a pair of powered DSR112s). When space is at a premium - I place the stand so that the legs "straddle" one of the DSR112s (which sits in a wedge position) and put my 6u rack on top of it. In one room (that is stoopid tiny) - I actually place the second monitor on top of the rack - which gives me a "vertical" stack with both monitors and the rack - in a footprint that only a couple of inches larger than a single DSR112 in a wedge position.

[DanL]

I usually sit my rack on the ground then put my K10 on top of it angled up at me, but with the in ears, in order to get to the volume control easier, I'm using a waitress stand that I chopped 6" off of, so the top of the rack sits a little higher than my bottom keyboard.

 

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/dan88z/danmontana2_zpsa2c0cec2.jpg

[DanL]

I use one of these for my rack. It folds smaller and is much more sturdy than an "X" stand. Plus it offers a little bit of flexibility in terms of leg placement. I run my stage monitoring in stereo (using a pair of powered DSR112s). When space is at a premium - I place the stand so that the legs "straddle" one of the DSR112s (which sits in a wedge position) and put my 6u rack on top of it. In one room (that is stoopid tiny) - I actually place the second monitor on top of the rack - which gives me a "vertical" stack with both monitors and the rack - in a footprint that only a couple of inches larger than a single DSR112 in a wedge position.

 

I like that stand, not too expensive either, I might pick up one of those. My waitress stand is REALLY old and I don't always trust it.

[vonnor]

Yes the stand the rack is on...

Ah lol... I misunderstood.

 

That is one of those stands that's supposed to hold a guitar amp on stage sitting kinda on an angle. I slid the top "L" arms off and turned them around backwards, then discovered that the width between the arms was identical to the width between the two stacking-indents on the bottom of the SKB rack! So I dremel'ed off the "L" arms to the exact length of the stacking-tracks and the rack just sits right on there nice and neat.

 

I'll post a pic later.

 

~ vonnor

[vonnor]

I use one of these for my rack...

Hey I like that one! And it would allow for setting a beer on top of the rack which is very important.

[Sparky2]

I use one of these for my rack. It folds smaller and is much more sturdy than an "X" stand. Plus it offers a little bit of flexibility in terms of leg placement....

 

I also use the WS stand for my rack. The caps on the upper legs keep falling off in transit. I have to glue those one day.....

 

Mark

[The Real MC]

This is my gigging rig. I gigged with my Kurzweil MIDIBoard since 1989 and it is still an excellent MIDI controller, I use it as command central for system configuration. The MIDIBoard and romplers form the base system which I can add Hammond and synths as the situation demands. The MIDIBoard isn't a light unit but the system sets up quick with minimal cabling and cartage. This is the best gigging system I have put together to date.

 

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguediehard/tour/offsite-rig/offsite-rig-base-system-06-monitor-hammond-full.jpg

 

Also a longtime fan of my Alesis Datadisk. We need a similar product that uses newer formats like USB sticks.

[The Real MC]

And it would allow for setting a beer on top of the rack which is very important.

 

Heh... the "no drinks on the racks" is strictly enforced with my gear

[Moonglow]

And it would allow for setting a beer on top of the rack which is very important.

 

Heh... the "no drinks on the racks" is strictly enforced with my gear

+1

 

I enforce the same policy because if I placed a drink on my rack, the other bozos in my band would interpret this as an open invitation to do the same.

[vonnor]

...the "no drinks on the racks" is strictly enforced...

As is the "no sarcasm without winky-faces" in my forum posts. ;)

 

[vonnor]

This is my gigging rig...

Nice setup, Cary.

[The Real MC]

This is my gigging rig...

Nice setup, Cary.

 

Thanks, but I'm not Cary.

[clavjav]

I'm currently on a Top 40/Rock contract and am using,

 

Korg Krome 61 (bottom)

Yamaha MX49 (top)

 

Krome handles most of the work, piano, synth, pads. And the MX49 mostly does synth lead work.

 

I use Set List Maker on the ipad to send program changes to the Krome in Combi mode (every song has a combi). Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out a way to program change the MX49 at the same time - might need some new hardware?? So at the moment, each song in SLM has a patch number at the end of the song title for the MX49, which I key in manually before the next song. It's far from ideal, but still never takes more than 8 seconds for me to load my patches, so will do for now, until I figure out a better way!

[DanL]

send midi out from the krome and have it change the patch on the mx49. I'm not familiar with the korg architecture but there should be a way to do a midi program change from in a combi. You'd just assign it a slot in the combi.

[vonnor]

...Thanks, but I'm not Cary.

My apologies, Michael. Took a wrong turn on retrosynth

[J. Dan]

send midi out from the krome and have it change the patch on the mx49. I'm not familiar with the korg architecture but there should be a way to do a midi program change from in a combi. You'd just assign it a slot in the combi.

 

Actually, easier than that...combi responds to program changes on one MIDI channel, set the MX49 to receive on a different MIDI channel, MIDI Thru on Krome to IN on MX49 - that is, unless you're using USB MIDI from setlist maker, in which case, you'll need to convert to DIN MIDI into Krome, I believe.