Slight OT: A=432Hz?

[brenner13]

I commented with this on another thread but thought it might deserve one of its own...So I happened upon a rather eclectic artsy group that while very talented and with exceptional musical skills, insist that "The true cosmic frequency of A is 432Hz, and if one truly wishes to find enlightenment and be open to the vastness of universal understanding, one would never play in that Nazi conformist 440Hz."

 

I played in a band for 5 years that tuned down a half-step. I tried just playing the flats for a while, but it never did sound right, so reluctantly I used the transpose option on the keys. I had a tough time getting my ear back in shape when another group came along that tuned standard A=440Hz so I'm thinking I should smile and nod while backing away slowly from this band of eccentrics.

 

Does anyone here have experience with the 432Hz thing?

[Keyboard-girl]

I commented with this on another thread but thought it might deserve one of its own...So I happened upon a rather eclectic artsy group that while very talented and with exceptional musical skills, insist that "The true cosmic frequency of A is 432Hz, and if one truly wishes to find enlightenment and be open to the vastness of universal understanding, one would never play in that Nazi conformist 440Hz."

 

I played in a band for 5 years that tuned down a half-step. I tried just playing the flats for a while, but it never did sound right, so reluctantly I used the transpose option on the keys. I had a tough time getting my ear back in shape when another group came along that tuned standard A=440Hz so I'm thinking I should smile and nod while backing away slowly from this band of eccentrics.

 

Does anyone here have experience with the 432Hz thing?

 

Not sure about the "True cosmic Frequency" bit, but we go to see a Paul Rodgers tribute band ( lots of Free and Bad Company). We see them 15 - 20 times a year, and they sound 100% better since they started to tune down half a step.

[joegerardi]

'Cause I'm too lazy to type it all, I swiped this from Wikipedia because it covers all the facts:

 

"Prior to the standardization on 440 Hz, many countries and organizations followed the Austrian government's 1885 recommendation of 435 Hz. The American music industry reached an informal standard of 440 Hz in 1926, and some began using it in instrument manufacturing. In 1936 the American Standards Association recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz.[1] This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 (reaffirmed by them in 1975) as ISO 16.[2] Although not universally accepted, since then it has served as the audio frequency reference for the calibration of acoustic equipment and the tuning of pianos, violins, and other musical instruments.

 

A440 is widely used as concert pitch in United Kingdom[3] and the United States. In continental Europe the frequency of the A is commonly 442 Hz and 443 Hz.[4][5] In the period instrument movement, a consensus has arisen around a modern baroque pitch of 415 Hz (currently, A flat), baroque for some special church music (Chorton pitch) at 466 Hz (A sharp) and classical pitch at around 430 Hz."

 

432Hz was never actually used back in the day- it was 435Hz. In the US they settles on A440 as Concert Pitch, and everyone else followed along. Because of that it was given the ISO rating, and has remained since.

 

..Joe

[wmp]

A432 is 31.7667 cents flat of 440, so the transpose button won't help you tune to these folks. A semitone flat would (of course) be 100 cents flat, or A415.3047, which is Ab in my universe. Clonk here to read more. It all sounds like cosmic hippie math abuse to me. Pseudo intellectual bull$#!t. Mathturbation.

 

If A is 440, C is 523.251 in equal temperament. If you tune a diatonic C tuning from a reference of C523.251, A will be 435.

 

 

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

yeah, pure cosmic hippy bs. It's the same as 440, only a little flat.

[wmp]

The recent public disclosure of the vibratory/oscillatory nature of the universe indicates that the current de facto international concert pitch A=440Hz ET may possibly generate an unhealthy effect or anti-social behavior in the consciousness of human beings.

That might explain why I'm such a snarky bastid.

 

[zephonic]

From Wikipedia:

Despite such confusion, A = 440 Hz is the only official standard and is widely used around the world. Many orchestras in the United Kingdom adhere to this standard as concert pitch. In the United States some orchestras use A = 440 Hz, while others, such as New York Philharmonic and the Boston Symphony Orchestra, use A = 442 Hz. The latter is also often used as tuning frequency in Europe, especially in Denmark, France, Hungary, Italy, Norway and Switzerland. Nearly all modern symphony orchestras in Germany and Austria and many in other countries in continental Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz.

 

In practice the orchestras tune to a note given out by the oboe, and many oboists use an electronic tuning device. When playing with fixed-pitch instruments such as the piano, the orchestra will generally tune to thema piano will normally have been tuned to the orchestra's normal pitch. Overall, it is thought that the general trend since the middle of the 20th century has been for standard pitch to rise, though it has been rising far more slowly than it has in the past. Some orchestras like the Berliner Philharmoniker now use a slightly lower pitch (443 Hz) than their highest previous standard (445 Hz).

 

Many modern ensembles which specialize in the performance of Baroque music have agreed on a standard of A = 415 Hz. An exact equal-tempered semitone lower than A = 440 would be 440/21/12 = 415.3047 Hz; this is rounded to the nearest integer. In principle this allows for playing along with modern fixed-pitch instruments if their parts are transposed down a semitone. It is, however, common performance practice, especially in the German Baroque idiom, to tune certain works to Chorton, approximately a semitone higher than A-440 (460470 Hz) (e.g., Pre-Leipzig period cantatas of Bach).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch

 

If you read the whole thing in its entirety, you'll learn that the 440 standard was adopted for technical, not musical or even sonic, reasons.

 

Tinfoil hat alert:

440 is a multiple of 11, a number commonly associated with illuminati, freemasons, devil worship and witchcraft.

 

[Josh Paxton]

If by "back away slowly" you mean generally leave them to their lunacy and find something else to do with your time, then that's what I'd do.

 

Technical nitpick: the only reason you literally back away slowly is if you think a startled animal might attack and harm you. In this case, I'd be much more inclined to just chuckle, roll my eyes, and turn and walk away without making any effort to conceal my derision and dismissiveness. 'Cause really, what's the worst the cosmically enlightened spiritual beings are gonna do to me?

 

Then again, I'm fortunate to live in an area where there are enough skilled musicians that I can find some who are way less wacko, and spend my time with them instead. YMMV.

[CEB]

I think fancy fiddle players may tune to 443 or 444. Violinist seem to like to be sharp. Maybe it helps them cut through the symphony better.

 

A flat fiddle sounds awful.

 

But other than that, What does the gig pay?

[stillplaying]

@OP logged in because I thought this would be a funny thread but it's ...

 

Maybe 432 isn't a funny number.

 

I tried numbers for humour on here too without much real success.

 

You're welcome to try 668 The Neighbour of the Beast.

 

Or 666a The bloke who lives in the converted flat above the Beast.

 

But 432? What's that? It's the family that live in the house that's on the same side of the road as The Beast but not as far up the hill. If you're trying to find their house and you get as far as The Beast's house, you've gone too far.

 

Like your eclectic artsy friends.

[smanzella]

Tinfoil hat alert:

440 is a multiple of 11, a number commonly associated with illuminati, freemasons, devil worship and witchcraft.

 

You forgot about the boogie-man!

[I-missRichardTee]

I thought I heard ( no expert here ) that pitches were lower back in Mozart times. I just presumed they were gradually moving "sharper"?

[Dana.]

The definitive word on 11:

 

[video:youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrVCjnRdB_k&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNrVCjnRdB_k

[Jim Alfredson]

I got into several debates with people on FB about this. Rather that go into detail, I'll just say that such claims are an example of egocentrism to the extreme.

[zephonic]

Maybe 432 isn't a funny number.

 

Tinfoil hat alert:

Like 444, 432 is a multiple of 12, a number of considerable religious significance (12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles of Jesus, 12 Olympians etc.)

[joegerardi]

I think fancy fiddle players may tune to 443 or 444. Violinist seem to like to be sharp. Maybe it helps them cut through the symphony better.

 

A flat fiddle sounds awful.

 

Myth. Not true. Classical Violin is my main instrument now, and I can assure you, we tune to A440. In orchestra, we tune to the oboist, so unless they are sharp, we aren't either; in my String quartet, everyone tunes to me (I'm the 1st) and I tune to A440 on my Korg tuner.

 

We have to tune to A440, because tuning anywhere else will make everyone else out of tune: due to the nature of the scale length, the Cellist/violinist will have to play certain notes sharp or flat to maintain a proper interval between the two. This is called Pythagorean Tuning. An example: in the key of D, if the violinist is playing a D and the Cellist an F#, (and the violin has the melody) the Cellist will have to raise/lower the pitch of the F# just a little so that the audible beating of out-of-tune notes isn't heard; If the Cellist has the melody, the violinist will have to raise/flatten the D a little. (Raise/lower depending on whether the interval is a 5th above, or a 4th below.)

 

It becomes a natural movement over time: we don't need to think about it when we do it, be we DO have to discuss it while rehearsing the piece to be aware that it's happening.

 

So we can't tune sharp, else everything else will get WAY out of tune. That's just always been a myth because violinists are such snotty, elitist bastards.

 

..Joe

[hurricane hugo]

[video:youtube]

[Delaware Dave]

I farted once in 432hz and the drummer said it sounded awful. I believe his exact words were "it stinks"

[Jr. Deluxe]

Don't leave it on the driveway and you wont get a flat violin.

 

The only people that usually prefer tuning down is singers who have a limited upper range, or guitar players who want to wheedly deedly.

[Jim Alfredson]

[video:youtube]

 

Precisely.

[MuzikTeechur]

I firmly believe that changing the key of a song changes the character of that song in fundamental ways, but anything other than 440 is just... well, it's out of tune!

[CEB]

For recording I love transposing down soft piano ... or digital pianos. -4 to -6 is killer. Hit those bottom bass keys at -6 through good monitors or my cans just make my last 3 hairs stand up on my head.

[CEB]

For recording I love transposing down software pianos ... or digital pianos. -4 to -6 is killer. Hit those bottom bass keys at -6 through good monitors or my cans just make my last 3 hairs stand up on my head.

 

I'll never be able to afford a Bosey Imperial.