Dependable, reliable Midi Controller?

[AnotherScott]

For my bottom keyboard and back up I'll use a Casio but it will be the WK-7500 I already have.

Are you still talking about using it to run VB3? Because last I remember, unlike the XW-P1, the WK-7500 sliders didn't send the MIDI CC commands for doing that.

 

Although the drawbar organs and internal sim are so-so and the same ones as the XW-P1, they are slider and button adjustable and will work OK as an emergency back-up.

The organs of the two Casios are not the same. If nothing else, if I remember correctly, the WK only permits 4 positions for each of the 9 drawbars, whereas the XW provides the full range of drawbar positions.

 

 

 

[Bossbandbob]

Cool beans and taters! I have a wk 7500. It feels surprisingly good! Just remember tho that that board doesn't have midi connections .. It uses a usb port.

I know. I'm just using it for a Hardware bottom board for piano's and other voices and a backup for the organ controller mounted above it (which right now is a Yammy MM6 with a Nanokontroller). I'm setting up splits for songs where needed on our set list on registration banks with the WK's inboard organ on the top keys/piano's etc on the bottom for emergency backup in case the organ controller set up won't work.

Even though there is no midi ports on the 7500 the USB is class compliant and works with the IPad and VB3 on a laptop or netbook. It just needs a peripheral controller like the Korg nano for sliders, buttons and knobs for laptop software. IMO the keyboard feel is a good compromise for playing either piano or organ parts.

[Bossbandbob]

For my bottom keyboard and back up I'll use a Casio but it will be the WK-7500 I already have.

Are you still talking about using it to run VB3? Because last I remember, unlike the XW-P1, the WK-7500 sliders didn't send the MIDI CC commands for doing that.

 

Although the drawbar organs and internal sim are so-so and the same ones as the XW-P1, they are slider and button adjustable and will work OK as an emergency back-up.

The organs of the two Casios are not the same. If nothing else, if I remember correctly, the WK only permits 4 positions for each of the 9 drawbars, whereas the XW provides the full range of drawbar positions.

 

 

Scott, I am no longer using the WK 7500 for organ. (except as emergency backup with splits when needed) I decided to just use it as a hardware board for now for just Piano and Synth sounds. Other than the drawbar upgrade, I believe the organs and sim are almost the same as the XW-P1. When I tried the P1 at GC I noticed that they both share the same beating issue that I have posted about on another thread here and some drawbar voices I tried sounded the same as the WK.

 

I'm using the MM6 with a Nano Kontroller with VB3 until I get a real organ controller which is why I started this thread. I previously used the Nano with the WK for the exact reason you mentioned about sliders not sending the MIDI CC commands.

 

I can't seem to stop changing my keyboard setups very three months or so. It does makes it more interesting when you're in a Tribute band and have to keep playing the same stuff over and over again. That and a bit of GAS.

 

[Bossbandbob]

Tried this new set up at band practice last night and everything worked well. My bandmates were real impressed with the tones I was getting even though I had to out put in Mono (which I'll have to do anyway on most gigs for FOH). To my ears the Casio's string and horn patches lost some presence in mono (gonna add a little reverb) but the rest were real good. The WK-7500's piano is basically the same as the PX-330. Mike Martin told me that himself on the Casio forum. It also suffers from the same too- short decay which is easily fixed with a longer "release" setting. I also external EQ it for a bit better low mid/bottom end.I think the pianos that don't say stereo are actually mono as they sound good in mono while the ones labeled "stereo piano" seem to have some slight phasing to my ears. Almost sounds like a slight tremolo effect.

 

Back on topic,I still want a better Controller. What is the difference between the new "generation" M-Audio Axiom and the old one?

 

EDIT: Never mind. Just found a whole thread here on it

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2246490/Old_M_Audio_Axiom_Pro_vs_new_2

[Bossbandbob]

Used the Mm6/Nanokontroller at a gig tonight with Vb3 and my netbook. This is the first time I have played a virtual instrument live. It sounded great and worked perfectly! There is basically nothing else on my netbook, however.

I am about to pull the trigger on either an Edirol PCR-800 or M-audio Axiom, both used but with partial Warranties. one thing I like about the Edirol is that it will work with the expression pedal I already have from my VK7.

[Bossbandbob]

I ended up buying a used M-audio Axiom from GC for 109$ with 20$ for a one year warranty and one missing slider knob(the slider is still functional). I'll be trying it out tonight.

[RABid]

I also have the Edirol PCR-800 along with a Roland PCR-300. Love them both. Would love to have a hammer action 88 to match. That would make a very compact keyboard setup.

[Bossbandbob]

I actually bought the Axiom (which will suit me fine). Except for smears, due to the little lip on the keys, which I can adjust to, the action is similar to my Hammond A101, which I compared it to last night. It was a nearly instant set up with VB3. Also my expression pedal from my VK7 works with it- yeah! And I also bought a used weighted hammer action 88 keyboard for my bottom tier. After I break myself in on them, my new gig-rig will be the Ax on top with a netbook and a Casio PX-5s on the bottom. I'll use the WK-7500 on the bottom when I need a smaller footprint on stage.

[AnotherScott]

I mentioned the Samson Graphite 49 earlier... I finally got a chance to get my hands on one, I was pleasantly surprised, I thought it felt pretty nice. At its price, with aftertouch and 9 sliders, it seems like a nice board. (Though again, I don't know anything about its reliability.) Not sure about its facility for calling up different sounds on the fly.

[Bossbandbob]

On the Axiom 61 (first generation) how do you program another "Scene" (like on the NanoKontrol) or whatever it is called on the Axiom (memory locations?) so that I have a second area to control VB3's Lower drawbars and other knobs and buttons from, beside the first ""area" I used for the top drawbars and some knobs. I can't quite figure this out from reading the user manual. Do I need to download some sort of editor to my computer to do this?

Thanks

Bob

[mcgoo]

I use a Roland A800 also but in my case it's my main gigging axe as well as a studio tool. After about a year of ownership I must say I'm a little disappointed with it. The USB port does not grip cables tightly anymore, causing the cable to loosen as I play and leading to stuck notes and a broken connection to my computer.

 

I've had the exact same thing happen to my original Axiom 61. It's probably not worth the cost of repair so I now use the MIDI out & the dreaded (not included) wall wart power supply.

[Reezekeys]

Yes it seems that USB ports are not designed for a lot of inserts/removes. So maybe this issue isn't exclusive to my A800. I'm living with it for now, just remembering to push the cord into the jack every few songs. When I tour I'm using rented boards & midi so it's not an issue for the "important" gigs.

 

My plan is to call upon my Heathkit skills (older folks here may recognize that reference!) and just solder a new USB jack to the A800's main board, or wherever the USB jack is currently mounted.

[Reezekeys]

the dreaded (not included) wall wart power supply.

BTW you know that almost any USB power adapter should work? I've powered my A800 Pro from my little iPhone cube power adapter. I bought a cheapo Chinese adapter for $2 as a backup, it works fine also. The keyboard only needs 250 or 300ma, and the phone adapters are 1000ma, iPad ones are 2000ma I think.

 

On my old Edirol PCR-M80, selecting USB power disabled the midi ports. Not so with the A800.

 

I'm guessing that many of these controllers can be powered like this. I would certainly check it out before buying a regular wall wart adapter (I think Roland wants $35 for the A800 adapter). Another advantage of these small adapters, other than the fact that many of us already have one, is that they'll work on any input voltage. That'll come in handy for the Asia tour!

[Bossbandbob]

On the Axiom 61 (first generation) how do you program another "Scene" (like on the NanoKontrol) or whatever it is called on the Axiom (memory locations?) so that I have a second area to control VB3's Lower drawbars and other knobs and buttons from, beside the first ""area" I used for the top drawbars and some knobs. I can't quite figure this out from reading the user manual. Do I need to download some sort of editor to my computer to do this?

Thanks

Bob

Guess it must be the controller storage setups that do this. Will check it out tomorrow

. Edit: yup, that' s what it was that I was looking for.

[analogman1]

+1 on the worn out USB port. I've switched to a Midi to USB cable; MIDI from the controller (much more stable) to the USB on the laptop.

 

MUCH better!!!

[Bossbandbob]

+1 on the worn out USB port. I've switched to a Midi to USB cable; MIDI from the controller (much more stable) to the USB on the laptop.

 

MUCH better!!!

For what it is worth, I just experienced the dreaded USB issue on my Axiom.

It seems that the weight of the USB cord bends down the flat middle pin of the USB Jack. Bending it back up with a small screw driver seems to get it to hold its connection again. I also used needle nose pliers to squeeze the cable insert plug but I'm not sure if that really did anything. I built a little shelf with a blob of hot melt glue under the cable insert to stop it from bending down and bending down the flat middle pin. We'll see how this works out.

[Reezekeys]

I just replaced the USB jack on my Korg MicroKey 37. It was a fairly delicate desoldering job which took some time (there are some tiny surface-mount components resistors I think very close to the USB jack). I found a source on Ebay that sold circuit-board mountable USB jacks in packs of 2 for a very reasonable cost including shipping.

 

I was about to also replace the USB jack on my Roland A800 Pro so I pulled the circuit board but then noticed something: the USB jack was different. Not in the outside dimensions or pin placements, but in the inner contacts. In the photos below, the Ebay part is on the left, the A800 jack on the right (I hope this formats OK for everybody):

 

http://imageshack.com/a/img199/8652/1jqj.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img850/9264/eafk.jpg

 

As you can see, the Ebay jack has a large ceramic or plastic piece in the middle with the four strips of metal that form the contacts which is typical to every USB jack I've seen until now! The Roland jack has just four pins, which in my uneducated opinion does a much worse job of gripping a USB cable. I used a needle nose pliers to gently bend the pins so that they would contact the cable with a little more force. I haven't had an incident since then but still feel that the cable is not gripped very tightly. On my MicroKey, I am very confident that the cable won't come out it really feels like it's being held well, for the moment at least.

 

I'm wondering if this is Roland trying to save a few pennies. If so, I am very disappointed if & when the USB cable comes out, the show stops! Along with the other issues I have with this board, I'm gonna look very closely at other brands when it's time for my next controller.

[The Real MC]

most keyboards discretize -- and inconsistently -- the MIDI values and thus don't cover the full continuous range from 1 to 127.

Not sure what you mean by "discretize." Round the values up or down to a fraction of the 127 possible? Where did you hear that most keyboards do this?

 

It means that despite a continous range from 0 to 127, they are actually generating MIDI messages in increments of 4 or 8 or 16. I have a keyboard that only generates aftertouch values at 0, 16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 112, and 127 - nothing in between and too coarse for most musical usage.

[mate stubb]

USB connectors are of non professional quality IMO and have no place on stage. It's a step down from DIN plugs for midi.

[Reezekeys]

It means that despite a continous range from 0 to 127, they are actually generating MIDI messages in increments of 4 or 8 or 16. I have a keyboard that only generates aftertouch values at 0, 16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 112, and 127 - nothing in between and too coarse for most musical usage.

I got it now, thanks. I haven't noticed this with the Roland controllers I've used but then again I wasn't really examining the CC midi data they were sending either. I'm pretty sure the sliders send CC values in single-digit increments, not sure about aftertouch though, since I'm not using it at the moment.

[Bossbandbob]

USB connectors are of non professional quality IMO and have no place on stage. It's a step down from DIN plugs for midi.

 

I think I am beginning to understand this. It is kind of a dumb design. Unfortunately this means another wall wart but usually those don't fail. I also just saw the post on USB power cube adaptors which sounds even better. I don't use one on stage yet but I guess there are other options for connecting an Ipad?

[Markay]

USB connectors are of non professional quality IMO and have no place on stage. It's a step down from DIN plugs for midi.

What defines professional?

USB has been the most successful universal device interface yet. USB ports can be found on virtually every PC. Laptop, tablet and phone (outside the Apple world).

 

In fact USB had become so successful that Apple, taking a leaf out of IBM's 1960's propriety connectors manual, designed it's own $30 substitute for the iPhone and iPad.

 

Agreed the square Type B USB connector has its disadvantages.

 

I don't understand why keyboards etc. don't switch to the Type A USB connector which offers a firmer connection IMHO. Or use the metal cased mini or micro USB connector found on many tablets and phones.

 

Even the Type B style connector is no more vulnerable than the insecure power plug found on keyboards without IEC plugs.

 

The ability to power and transmit midi to/from a controller and power and process audio to an interface with just two cables is a great advance IMHO and only misses the professional category if professional means maximising the number of cables.

 

[mate stubb]

In this case, I meant professional to indicate "physically sturdy enough to withstand the rigors of gigging."

[Markay]

In this case, I meant professional to indicate "physically sturdy enough to withstand the rigors of gigging."

Is there anything other than a Roland amp that is that well built?

[Joe Muscara]

In this case, I meant professional to indicate "physically sturdy enough to withstand the rigors of gigging."

Is there anything other than a Roland amp that is that well built?

[Reezekeys]

In this case, I meant professional to indicate "physically sturdy enough to withstand the rigors of gigging."

My guess is that these small & light USB midi controllers are not designed to be gigging instruments. They're for bedroom studios. They stay put. You're not supposed to be plugging & unplugging the USB cable from them a lot.

 

Markay does have a point about the type B connector being more problematic than the other USB connectors. Pretty much any other type grips better than the type B IMO.

 

I just flew across the US with my A800 so I'm probably pushing the envelope, but so far it's been cool. And the USB cable has stayed put. I wonder when my luck will run out!

[Bossbandbob]

When you hook up an IPhone cube to power a controller, I presume you use the same USB connector? If so then you have a concern with that coming out as well. I'm going to design a cable holder clip to keep my USB cable secure in my Axiom. This is ridiculous that a better connection was never developed.

[Markay]

When you hook up an IPhone cube to power a controller, I presume you use the same USB connector? If so then you have a concern with that coming out as well. I'm going to design a cable holder clip to keep my USB cable secure in my Axiom. This is ridiculous that a better connection was never developed.

 

Bob, please post pics when done.

Cheers

Mark

[Reezekeys]

When you hook up an IPhone cube to power a controller, I presume you use the same USB connector? If so then you have a concern with that coming out as well. I'm going to design a cable holder clip to keep my USB cable secure in my Axiom. This is ridiculous that a better connection was never developed.

Yes, same concern. I originally made the suggestion because some (maybe most?) controllers don't come with AC adaptors, and their manufacturers are happy to sell you one at a relatively high cost. Most of us already have small power adapters for our phones or tablets and these should work fine though I suppose I should speak only for myself and add a "YMMV."

 

I'm also interested to see your clip when it's done.

[Bossbandbob]

Will do