Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Kevmo]

Yes saved in reg but if you have a quickmodulation on the fly your SOL

[garnermike]

On ther downloadable manual, the "transpose button settings" are on the "settings that can be saved on registrations... on page 59 of the new OS manual...

 

Can't you save your transposed sounds all in one or two banks and use them from there? Looks like it might do the trick, no? Sorry if I misunderstood your issue...

 

PITA. 90 tune repertoire, 50 of them played transposed. No thanks.....

[garnermike]

Thx for sharing that about the Nord. Was only going by my scanning the manual....

I HATE not being able to slow down the SK1's FAST rotor speed below its "375" parameter. To me, it sounds like a harsh, unaligned washing machine. I can slow the FAST rotor speed down on a Roland or by using the Lex. In short, the SK1 has/does everything I want/need---EXCEPT for an acceptable (to me) FAST rotor speed control.

Before going to the Lex, my workaround has been to use the SLOW rotor speed set at its highest (318) as my FAST rotor speed. Sounds pretty much just like I want it to, but doing that precludes me from using a foot pedal to switch back and forth between SLOW and FAST speeds.

I've been criticized on this board for wanting something that is not part of the classic Hammond/Leslie sound, and hence not built into the SK1. I can understand that criticism, as I am not a Hammond sound purist like some others. And as I said, I know what I like, and am weird that way.

[Craig MacDonald]

I loved the VR-09 organ tone, and loved its size/weight. Given what and how I play with my band, however, I needed to play in transposed keys and be able to switch personally-tailored voices mid-song and remain in that transposed key. VR-09 could not do that.

 

I believe that this is incorrect.. Transpose is stored by registration and from within a registration you can choose any other sound and it maintains the transpose status until you change to a different registration.. This allows you switch between an unlimited number of sounds and maintain the transposed status.. The VR-09 is quite versatile when it comes to transpose.. So you can store up to 100 different sounds with different transpose status AND you can change sounds within a registration, and maintain the transposed state.. If you need more than that, perhaps it's time to start learning how to play in different keys??

 

Sorry for my sarcasm.. but I couldn't resist, forgive me....

[To B3]

For "change sounds within a registration", you mean something like that?

 

A registration with a Rhodes LH + Organ RH and you Change the Organ on the fly for a moog while maintaining the transposed status on that particular registration? And the transpositions are saved within each registration and maintained on power off, not being global, right?

[Craig MacDonald]

to B3, absolutely... for example you can store a registration with a +1 transpose with whatever basic sound you want.. for example a split bass guitar/EP... press the registration button and the +1 transpose kicks in... from there you can press any sound you want.. select a synth sound and the transpose is maintained.. if you want to return to the original split, just hit the original registration button again, but if you prefer you could move to a strings or organ or whatever. you can go through a dozen different sounds and the transpose is maintained until you select a different registration.. its kind of like a global transpose but within a registration. this vr-09 is very flexible when it comes to transposition.

 

All saved registration information, including transposition, is saved permanently and will not be lost by a power off/on.

[Laurence]

The only global band transpose I ever run into is where the band tunes down half a step to make it easier for the singers. I know two local bands that do this regularly. The VR-09 will let you tune up or down a half step. I would just tune down to the half step limit if I was working with one of those bands. I have never run into a global band transpose other than a half step down, but that one is pretty common.

[Craig MacDonald]

To B3, its a bit trickier if you just want to change the upper part of a split on the fly, but the point is that you can make changes within a registration and it maintains the transpose until you change registraions..

[Kevmo]

I say again its a stop playing press 2 button PITA

[brenner13]

Master tune will go up or down a half-step.

[Craig MacDonald]

I say again its a stop playing press 2 button PITA

explain what you want to do and ill try to see if there is a way to do it..

[WesG]

Based on earlier comments, I *think* Kevmo is trying to do a trucker driver's gear change (or similar) using transpose.

[Kevmo]

I am a hack / play all i can in C

So lets say im i c and band dose a quick change to d new tune no stop. Even without a patch change i have to press Transpose w my left hand and up 2 To d w my rt. Hand

[Craig MacDonald]

kevmo.

 

The transpose and up down keys are side by side... surely you can transpose up or down with one hand!? press and hold the transpose key with your index finger and press up/down with your middle finger? Even if you are a hack... you should be able to do this... it does not take two hands... seriously...

[Kevmo]

Doh i am getting old . I will master this asap

Thanks Craig

[Kevmo]

Also thanks for the idea of doing patch changes from within a registration

[Craig MacDonald]

Also thanks for the idea of doing patch changes from within a registration

Kevmo, happy to help when I can.. I didn't think your negativity towards the VR-09 was warranted because the VR-09 is pretty flexible with respect to transposition. The VR-09 doesn't have a global transpose, but having the ability to store transpose as part of a "registration" and from within that registration change sounds/layers/splits/effects without losing the transpose, is a rather unique feature, and something of an advantage depending on the situation.

 

If you're planning ahead you can create a dozen different transposed registrations for different songs, and if you put them in order you could simply hit the "next" button as you move through your sets.. There are a number of ways to handle transpositions depending on how you want to use them.. you could even name the registrations by song or by transpose (ie "C-G song name").

 

There is no question that the architecture of the VR-09 won't work for everyone (either the way it is organized or the limits to it's tweakability) but from my perspective it's a pretty good flexible design at this price point.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

It sounds like, if you can manage to invoke most of your sounds directly from the front panel, you could create 12 registrations that are all identical starting points, with different transpositions. Then you call up the registration that puts the board into the key you want, and just work with the front panel from there, until the next song. That only uses 12 of the 100 registrations, so there's still room to create some custom registrations for songs where you can't easily call up the sounds you need from the front panel.

[Craig MacDonald]

AnotherScott, absolutely.. 12 different registrations covers all the possible transpositions and from each of these registrations you can quickly call up whatever sound you want..

 

You can also create splits and layers on the fly or select any sound you want within a registrations without losing the transpose.. the transpose only changes when you select a new registration.

[Laurence]

I can't imagine using a transpose function to change keys. I use different voicings in different keys. If I was in a band that tuned their guitars down a half step I would probably do it just so that our chord charts would all match and the voicing so wouldn't be that different. That and I am pretty good at reading the chords off the guitar players left hand since I play guitar as well.

 

It really isn't that hard to play in different keys. First, you mostly just do guitar keys anyway: G, E, A, D. If it's a jazz band with brass you can add a few flat keys like F, Bb, Eb and Ab. Heck most songs are just four chords anyway: 1, 4, 5 and 6.

 

Then there are some simple rules for the harder keys. The most black keys any key is going to have is five. With the keys where you use all five black keys, it is just a matter of which of the two white keys that are together do you use.

 

Key of B: it's E and B (the two lower ones). In C# it's F and C (the two higher ones). In F# it's F and B (the higher one under the group of three black keys and the lower one under the group of two black keys). Mess around with it for a few hours a couple of days in a row and you'll have it forever.

 

The biggest thing I have against using the transpose function though is what it does to your voicings. Transpose up and key of C voicings are going to have a your chords high and shrill. Transpose down and they're going to be really muddy. I suppose you could learn to adjust your inversions and voice things differently as you transpose up or down, but that sounds like as much work as learning to just play in the different keys.

 

Plus, what are you going to do if you run into a real piano or organ? What about multiple keyboards? Do you transpose them all? What if you're playing bass parts? They're not going to sound like bass parts if they get transposed out of the correct range.

 

I really don't see how this is an issue.

[wmp]

I finally heard one of these last Sunday at a jam. He was running it through a Behringer keyboard amp that doubled as his seat. He had no expression pedal, which made it less fun for me to play organ. I wasn't knocked out by the percussion, C/V, or Leslie sim. I lasted for half a tune before abandoning it for piano on my PX-5s.

 

Hardly a fair evaluation considering how much I'd like to hear what a chainsaw sounds like running through the same amp.

 

 

 

 

[garnermike]

So you're saying that, unless I learn to play a ton of songs in different keys, I'd have to program at length and remember program reggies for all of these tunes. As opposed to the SK1, Roland VR-760/700, and other boards, that very simply allow one to stay in a systemically-maintained key within a program reggie with a one-button push?

Sorry, but any advantages of the VR-09 don't make up for that huge inconvenience.

I'll stop whining about it here, but all I will say is that that attribute (and the rotary effect on layered sound) kept me away from keeping the VR-09 I bought.

[garnermike]

My situation is quite different, Craig. And it's specific to me.

 

I am 63, learned to play keys at age 52. No training; all by ear. Have no technique, can't play much of a solo. I learn a song's chords and a few flourishes around those and that's it. Need to be able to transpose liberally.

 

Yet, I play in one of the most popular bands in North Carolina. 125 gigs a year. Reggae, rockabilly, R&B. Hear us at www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer.

 

It's a trio (guitar, drums, SK1 at my righthand and Roland E-09 at my left). I am holding down the middle and also the bass. Don't have enough hands or fingers to stop and make multi-button changes.

 

You are wrong about transposing up or down affecting bass tonality. Believe me, I have played numerous boards at bass, and Casios and now the E-09 have bass patches that sound incredibly authentic and are not skewed by transposing. Hardly a gig goes by when a bass player doesn't come up to me and compliment me on the bass tone and playing.

[Craig MacDonald]

So you're saying that, unless I learn to play a ton of songs in different keys, I'd have to program at length and remember program reggies for all of these tunes. As opposed to the SK1, Roland VR-760/700, and other boards, that very simply allow one to stay in a systemically-maintained key within a program reggie with a one-button push?

Sorry, but any advantages of the VR-09 don't make up for that huge inconvenience.

 

I'll stop whining about it here, but all I will say is that that attribute (and the rotary effect on layered sound) kept me away from keeping the VR-09 I bought.

 

NO I'm NOT saying that, I am saying that the VR-09 is flexible enough to allow you to approach your transpositions in several different ways..

 

1. Prepare in advance, save the song name in a registration with the proper transposition. If you put these in order you need to do nothing but hit the "next" button as you move from song to song

2. Create 12 registrations name them C to C#, C to D, C to Eb and so on right up to C to B, make sure that each of these has the appropriate transposition, and you can move through the various transpositions with the spin of the rotary dial.

3. You can transpose the VR-09 Manually with one hand, one finger on the transpose and a second finger on the up/down. All of these buttons are side by side and this is EASILY performed with one hand between songs

 

Note that if you choose to store a transposition as a registration you can move freely from one sound to the next, and create splits and layers on the fly and the transposition will be maintained until you change to another registration.

 

The VR-09 is pretty flexible with respect to transposition, and it's really quite easy. If you're not happy with it Mike and you don't like the leslie sim than so be it. It's not my intention to argue, I'm just trying to be helpful.

 

If you're happy with your SK1, that's great!

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

My situation is quite different, Craig. And it's specific to me.

 

I am 63, learned to play keys at age 52. No training; all by ear. Have no technique, can't play much of a solo. I learn a song's chords and a few flourishes around those and that's it. Need to be able to transpose liberally.

 

Yet, I play in one of the most popular bands in North Carolina. 125 gigs a year. Reggae, rockabilly, R&B. Hear us at www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer.

 

It's a trio (guitar, drums, SK1 at my righthand and Roland E-09 at my left). I am holding down the middle and also the bass. Don't have enough hands or fingers to stop and make multi-button changes.

 

You are wrong about transposing up or down affecting bass tonality. Believe me, I have played numerous boards at bass, and Casios and now the E-09 have bass patches that sound incredibly authentic and are not skewed by transposing. Hardly a gig goes by when a bass player doesn't come up to me and compliment me on the bass tone and playing.

 

GarnerMike, congratulations on learning the keys at a more "advanced" age than most do..! I am 58 myself so we're not so far apart in age (and I'm not much good at learning anything new these days!!). I listened to your MikeMickXer tunes and they sound great.. you would never suspect that you're a musical "late bloomer"!

 

BTW it wasn't me that said anything about the bass changing with transposition.. however I do agree that it does change somewhat, but if you transpose up +5 semi-tones and down -6 semitones to cover all the keys and the bass isn't going to change that much.. IF you transpose +12 to go from C UP to B (rather than just going down a semi-tone) I'm sure you'll lose a lot of the bottom, but doubt you do that..

 

Anyway, sounds good, if the SK works for you that's great. Don't take our comments about transposing personally. The "global" transpose is probably a simpler solution for you, if you basically play in one key and transpose everything. Honestly, who the hell really cares. For me it's easier to remember the chords in a different key than it is to remember how many semi-tones to transpose each song ;-)

[Kevmo]

Craig

Thanks used 1 hand transpose last nites gig worked fine

Now AFA 12 regs in dif keys you can go up but not down/back . How do you deal with that shortfall??

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Craig

Thanks used 1 hand transpose last nites gig worked fine

Now AFA 12 regs in dif keys you can go up but not down/back . How do you deal with that shortfall??

Kevmo, glad you sorted out the "one hand transposition".. ;-)

 

The lack of a "down" or "previous" button is a real pain in the ass.. a number of folks have commented on that.. Personally I would use the dial, but even that's a tad flakey to use. That said it's really not THAT difficult to use the rotary/dial to move up/down through registrations.. you just have to be careful.. it just takes 2-3 seconds between songs.. OR if you're holding a sustained note you can do it in advance of the next song (the held notes now sustain beyond the registration chance.. although the effects will change).

 

So use the dial that's my best advice.

[AnotherScott]

Now AFA 12 regs in dif keys you can go up but not down/back . How do you deal with that shortfall??

You have direct access to 16 registrations, right? i.e. 4 registrations in each of 4 banks, directly accessible with between one and three button presses, so you can get to any of your 12 "keys" easily that way. (And everything you do with the front panel at that point, switching among piano/organ/synth sounds, etc., stays in that key until you invoke a different registration.)

[Craig MacDonald]

Kevmo, what AnotherScott has said is very true, you can easily move from one bank to another by pressing the "Bank" button and one of the registration buttons.. and if you learn how to do this, it's very easy (just like the one handed transposition)..

 

You really just need to use the features/controls that are built into the VR-09. But if you can't master the one handed bank switch then use the dial.

[garnermike]

My bad, Craig; that wasn't your opinion re: transposing bass.

 

Ah, if only I was totally happy with the SK1! It's fast rotary sim doesn't cut it for me (too fast, and can;t slow it down enough. Have been through RT-20, then Vent. Now actually play it with the Strymon Lex and it's very good. And the SK1's layering of organ and harpsichord (w/o the harpsichord affected by rotary) is superb for reggae and for a stringy guitar effect on our rockabilly numbers.