Roland V-Combo VR-09

HammondDave · May 12, 2013

The Rhodes on the '60s & '70s board are quite bad. Lose-lose. No one is (or should be) buying the VR for the EPs.

Quite astounding/ridiculous that this thread has 1,000+ posts. There is nothing about the VR that justifies that.

+10

Though I remain intrigued by this keyboard to be the occasional cheapskate ultra lite sub rig, I may do better by keeping that $999 in the bank and just slogging it out with generations of elder gear that gets the same end result.

+100

Except for the weight factor.... If it were me, I would just plug my iPad into the PA and go... Can't get much lighter than that....

So what if the apps have "virtual keyboards".. at least it has aftertouch... more than I can say for the VR-09.

(ouch baby!)

Josh Paxton · May 12, 2013

Furthermore, if you look at the various waveforms that are available in the VA synth (363 in total) you'll find that pretty much every sound that's covered in the sample playback area can be recreated using the waves available in the VA synth engine.

I wish that were the case, but sadly it is not. While you're right that the "TpSection" sample is there, it's one of only three brass samples available in the synth editor. The other two are "Flugel Wave" and "FrHorn Wave." None of the solo trumpets, bones or saxes are included (which I find a very weird choice for any modern keyboard, let alone one that purports to be a live player's gigging instrument). I think I'll be able to come up with something usable by combining some of the available samples with some synth waveforms, but that's way more of a hassle than just stacking a trumpet, trombone and tenor sample in the octaves and output levels I want.

Ekewaka · May 12, 2013

...and if someone wants this for the weight/cost ratio, a good laptop and a decent MIDI keyboard with Mainstage running (with the excellent B3 plug-in) would be lighter and possibly cheaper. And more flexible. Plus you could read your emails on-stage.

simchaleh · May 12, 2013

i know i mentioned this already, but i find myself needing to say it again as i still see more comments doubting any updates on the simple features of not beeing able to split the expression pedal on tones and other simple manufacture bugs.

that from experience with my roland bk-5, weve had two updates in the past year, and each one adressed important different bugs, and even added features that were unexpected, yet very usefull shortcuts. so dont be so skeptical. i dont have any experience with roland from the past, but at least recently their updates have been on the dot and well done.

Sb

HammondDave · May 12, 2013

...and if someone wants this for the weight/cost ratio, a good laptop and a decent MIDI keyboard with Mainstage running (with the excellent B3 plug-in) would be lighter and possibly cheaper. And more flexible. Plus you could read your emails on-stage.

Or watch porn on the internet... (if you were into that kind of thing)... Let's see the VR-09 do that!

Josh Paxton · May 12, 2013

...and if someone wants this for the weight/cost ratio, a good laptop and a decent MIDI keyboard with Mainstage running (with the excellent B3 plug-in) would be lighter and possibly cheaper. And more flexible. Plus you could read your emails on-stage.

Or watch porn on the internet... (if you were into that kind of thing)... Let's see the VR-09 do that!

...Or get on this forum and argue about keyboards while playing a gig!!! Dude, you've just sold me on a laptop rig!

Tobias Åslund · May 12, 2013

...and if someone wants this for the weight/cost ratio, a good laptop and a decent MIDI keyboard with Mainstage running (with the excellent B3 plug-in) would be lighter and possibly cheaper. And more flexible. Plus you could read your emails on-stage.

Sure... but cheaper..? MainStage requires a Mac and AFAIK any MacBook alone is more expensive than the VR-09. Add to that cost MainStage (ok, its only about $30, but anyway) and a decent keyboard. It will probably cost you about 50% more than a VR09.

Also, IMHO the biggest appeal of the VR09 is simplicity to use it - most controllers are available directly on the front panel. No matter how good and user friendly the Mainstage is - you still have to spend hours programming it and perhaps also your midi keyboard just to get started - not everyone's cup of tea

Ekewaka · May 12, 2013

...and if someone wants this for the weight/cost ratio, a good laptop and a decent MIDI keyboard with Mainstage running (with the excellent B3 plug-in) would be lighter and possibly cheaper. And more flexible. Plus you could read your emails on-stage.
Sure... but cheaper..? MainStage requires a Mac and AFAIK any MacBook alone is more expensive than the VR-09. Add to that cost MainStage (ok, its only about $30, but anyway) and a decent keyboard. It will probably cost you about 50% more than a VR09.

Also, IMHO the biggest appeal of the VR09 is simplicity to use it - most controllers are available directly on the front panel. No matter how good and user friendly the Mainstage is - you still have to spend hours programming it and perhaps also your midi keyboard just to get started - not everyone's cup of tea

True but there are cases like in my case where I have an old 2007 MacBookPro that was gathering dust in the studio and I started using it for gigs with a used MIDI keyboard I picked up for $120. If that old MPB dies and I ever need a replacement I have a deal to take my wife's MBP as she got an iPad Mini. Mainstage is an excellent way to really maximize the use of old Apple laptops to the max. Just get enough RAM into them.

As for programming, I'm lazy and using the default Mainstage template.

Anyway, as mentioned many times each one should make their opinion about VR-09 by visiting a decent store and checking them out -- which I did.

Tobias Åslund · May 12, 2013

So if we're just comparing cost here - you think it's fair to compare the price of a brand new keyboard to that of a six year old computer..?

Trust me, I'm not the biggest fan of the VR-09, but I still think it give you a lot of interesting features for a decent price. Man if a keyboard like this was available 20 yrs ago when I got started...

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

I think that Roland should be applauded for packing so much into this inexpensive keyboard and setting this agressive new price point for a drawbar organ..! Frankly, I'm really kind of sick of hearing that this sucks and that sucks and blah blah blah.. from 3-4 guys.. Pointing out the flaws in this $999 keyboard when compared with equivalent keyboards worth 2-3 times as much is a complete waste of time, that's not the design point of the VR-09, but if that's how you guys get your kicks than so be it...

However, those of you who are suggesting that there is nothing of interest here, take a look at the stats... this thread has been viewed over 65,000 times.. so you can't argue with the fact that there is a HUGE amount of interest in this keyboard. Maybe you're not interested, but a lot of others are, and Roland must be doing something right! Complain all you want about the quality or the sounds or whatever.. a lot of people are interested in a low cost keyboard that does everything that this does.. and there is nothing that comes close to it for twice the price.

At 12 pounds and $999 the uses for this VR-09 are numerous.. lightweight low cost all in one gig keyboard, second keyboard for drawbar organ/pianos/synth, backup keyboard (in my case back up for either Mojo or Kronos), as a controller for VST based latpop rig (with built-in backup sounds), practice keyboard, battery powered keyboard for busking... etc.

Like simchalel, I'm reasonably optimistic that a few of the intitial bugs/design issues will be resolved in an update within a few months.

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Man if a keyboard like this was available 20 yrs ago when I got started...

Mr Tobbe,

All the little nits aside.. this keyboard is awsome.. yes imagine if 20 years ago someone had told you that Roland would be selling a keyboard that did a nice job of emulating a Hammond/leslie along with acoustic/electric pianos, clavinets, pretty much any other sound you want along with a virtual analog synth that can be controlled by a coloured touch screen and it's going to be 12 pounds and cost $999.. I think most of us would have shit our pants over it! Here were are today, it's finally been delivered, and while most of us are celebrating this accomplishment, 3-4 guys prefer to criticize the details...

Adan · May 12, 2013

Quite astounding/ridiculous that this thread has 1,000+ posts. There is nothing about the VR that justifies that.

if you don't count the 500 or so posts by hammondave and others who aren't even in the market for a lightweight organ-centered gigging keyboard, the number starts to appear more reasonable.

RetroVintageOld · May 12, 2013

I don't want to pay another $150 for a midi solutions box. More cash. More cords to hook up.

I might be able to live without layering sounds the way I want, but it seems there are effects issues too with splits.

Do I also understand correctly that if I split the board to LH piano and RH organ with rotary, that the rotary sim is stuck on the piano?

brenner13 · May 12, 2013

First gig with the VR last night and it was a hit with the band as well as several of the regulars that often hear us play. The new keys even got a few more comments than my new hair cut.

brenner13 · May 12, 2013

Yep, there's lots of annoying quirks and a few big uglies, but I still love it.

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Furthermore, if you look at the various waveforms that are available in the VA synth (363 in total) you'll find that pretty much every sound that's covered in the sample playback area can be recreated using the waves available in the VA synth engine.

I wish that were the case, but sadly it is not. While you're right that the "TpSection" sample is there, it's one of only three brass samples available in the synth editor. The other two are "Flugel Wave" and "FrHorn Wave." None of the solo trumpets, bones or saxes are included (which I find a very weird choice for any modern keyboard, let alone one that purports to be a live player's gigging instrument). I think I'll be able to come up with something usable by combining some of the available samples with some synth waveforms, but that's way more of a hassle than just stacking a trumpet, trombone and tenor sample in the octaves and output levels I want.

FKS,

I really haven't looked that closely or listened to all the available PCM samples, but a cursory look says that there are a lot of available acoustic samples that can be used to build acoustic sounds that complement those sounds included in the sample player engine on the VR-09. My point was that between the VA engine, with all it's PCM samples, and the abilty to edit the existing samples using ADSR/cutoff/resonance, you should really be able to dial in almost any sound you want (within reason of course).

Unlike yourself, I am thrilled because I didn't realize that the VA engine included all these acoustic samples.. I thought I'd be using it simply for synth leads and pads etc.. So to find out that I have access to 363 acoustic/electronic PCM samples opens up huge possibilities for me to create hundreds of other acoustic sounds that aren't included in the sample playback portion of the VR-09. I can also layer these VA sounds on top of the standard samples to beef them up or tweak them and save this layered sounds as a registration.

I'm sorry that you're dissapointed that it wasn't clear that some of the sounds weren't fully editable in the ipad editor app. Personally I never expected to be able to edit the acoustic piano or other samples sounds, and I was pleasantly suprised to find out that I had control over these sounds via the drawbars (ADSR, and Cutoff/resonance), which in itself gives me a lot of flexibility to control over the tone colour and other characteristics of the sound. I hope you find that the editability of the VR-09 is adequate for your needs.

For those reading this thread, here's an overview of what is/isn't editable on the VR-09 (based on my understanding at this time):

- The drawbar organ is fully editable using the VR-09 menu and fully editable via ipad editor

- The sample player sounds (acoustic pianos, Ep's Clavs etc) are editable using the secondary function of the VR-09 drawbars to control ADSR, cutoff and resonance (these are not editable via the iPad editor)

- The Virtual Analog Synth is fully editable via ipad editor (which includes 363 acoustic/electronic PCM samples) and ADSR, Cutoff/Resonance are editable using the secondary drawbar functions on the keyboard, in real time.

Any two of the above sounds can be combined, split/layered, and stored as a registration.

FKS perhaps you can double check what I've said here to make sure it's accurate. Hope this helps to clear things up.

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Do I also understand correctly that if I split the board to LH piano and RH organ with rotary, that the rotary sim is stuck on the piano?

RVO, NO that's not the case.. the issue seems to be only when organ and piano are layered.. if they are split the problem doesn't exist (at least not for me).. so you can play piano on the left hand and organ on the right and the leslie effect only acts on the organ.. (that said you can't control the organ expression independently, which is the other problem)..

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Quite astounding/ridiculous that this thread has 1,000+ posts. There is nothing about the VR that justifies that.

if you don't count the 500 or so posts by hammondave and others who aren't even in the market for a lightweight organ-centered gigging keyboard, the number starts to appear more reasonable.

+10..

RetroVintageOld · May 12, 2013

Thanks Craig.

The SK1 CAN control layered organ seperatly with an expression pedal. Correct?

HammondDave · May 12, 2013

You guys are hysterical. You know. If you told me 20 years ago that I could have a powerful computer embedded in my cell phone I would have jumped at that too! 20 Years Ago!!!! I hope that our standards have grown and evolved over the past 20 years. Maybe not. Lets all return to cheap diving board keyboards... Lots of synths were using them 20 YEARS AGO.

Joe Muscara · May 12, 2013

Where's my jetpack? Where's my flying car?

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Thanks Craig.

The SK1 CAN control layered organ seperatly with an expression pedal. Correct?

Pretty sure it can.. it's pretty basic functionality that I'm really surprised isn't available on this keyboard.. (yet).. I honestly can't imagine Roland not fixing this.. yikes.

That said, I'm still thinking of getting the midi pedal controller for $149.. there is so much I like about this VR-09! I've just started playing with the VA synth and with the editor it's really cool.

HammondDave · May 12, 2013

Where's my jetpack? Where's my flying car?

Lol. I know. As a Jetsons lover this has been my biggest disappointment. Next to the return of diving board keyboards for Roland Hammond clones.

LX88 · May 12, 2013

( Craig Mc Donald quote )

I have no problem with you pointing out the issue, I do think that all the CAPITAL letters and "I hope to God" this gets fixed, may be just a little over the top (I would honestly prefer that they fix the expression pedal issue, and I never even really noticed this issue), but different people have different taste and priorities.

My reply ( this is messed up in the editing of his post)

Actually, I do hope to god ( or the gods of these corporations) that we start making gear that we don 't need to replace or upgrade every several years. This is actually a serious issue. If we are going to be consumers of these things let's influence the manufacturers to get it right the first time.

Our Hammond organs and acoustic pianos were made to last and they got it right.

This forum gives us a voice to tell these companies what our needs are. Seriously, lets hope they do it right and that these tools last and serve us well for many years.

When information is discoverd that might need to be fixed, it actually benefits the consumer. I apologize if some don't care for my writing style as I attempt to do this.

That is why I make these comments. I don't want some kid spending some hard earned money to find out later that his gear doesn't quite do what it is intended to do.

If something needs to be pointed out, I think as people who have gained a certain amount of experience we have an obligation to do so. Hopefully we might be saving someone some frustration when some of this gear doesn't turn out as might be expected.

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Where's my jetpack? Where's my flying car?

Lol. I know. As a Jetsons lover this has been my biggest disappointment. Next to the return of diving board keyboards for Roland Hammond clones.

Dave, what do you care.. "ignore HammondDave, he won't buy one anyway" is one of the bullets on Rolands organ strategy chart.

HammondDave · May 12, 2013

Thanks Craig.

The SK1 CAN control layered organ seperatly with an expression pedal. Correct?

Pretty sure it can.. it's pretty basic functionality that I'm really surprised isn't available on this keyboard.. (yet).. I honestly can't imagine Roland not fixing this.. yikes.

That said, I'm still thinking of getting the midi pedal controller for $149.. there is so much I like about this VR-09! I've just started playing with the VA synth and with the editor it's really cool.

Really Craig? Where do your expectations stop for a $999 keyboard?

cgiles · May 12, 2013

This forum gives us a voice to tell these companies what are needs are. Seriously, lets hope they do it right and that these tools last and serve us well for many years.

Yeah, but wouldn't that kill 'GAS' as we know it .

chas

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Actually, I do hope to god ( or the gods of these corporations) that we start making gear that we don 't need to replace or upgrade every several years.

LX88, I really think God's got better things to do.. and do these references to GOD make this discussion OT? politics and religion are bad.. this has got to stop...

Craig MacDonald · May 12, 2013

Really Craig? Where do your expectations stop for a $999 keyboard?

Are you asking a serious question now Dave? ;-)

Listen, rather than getting into the weeds and debating the minutae of this instrument, I prefer to celebrate the tremendous value that it is.. all by itself, $999 sets an all time low price point for a clone, but Roland has thrown in a sample player, with a pretty good cross section of pretty good acoustic sounds and it's top of the line VA synth.. that really seems like tremendous value to me. Do you really expect me to sift through the murky minutae and tell you exactly what I would and wouldn't expect in a $999 instrument, just so you can disagree with me on it?

Joe Muscara · May 12, 2013

Where's my jetpack? Where's my flying car?

Lol. I know. As a Jetsons lover this has been my biggest disappointment. Next to the return of diving board keyboards for Roland Hammond clones.

Roland V-Combo VR-09

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