Roland V-Combo VR-09

[HammondDave]

the VR-09 is going to cause a lot of people to ask themselves why they're paying almost twice the price for a Nord or Hammond

 

Hmmm... Let me see...

 

Hammond: Great keybed, top notch B3 sound, decent EP's and AP's... Great customer service

 

Roland: Crappy keybed (I know... my opinion... I played it at NAMM), inferior leslie sim, inferior Hammond sound, poor customer service (again, my experience with many Roland synths that I own)

 

That's why some of us would pay more... You usually do get what you pay for.

 

[Dana.]

If it's not Hammond, it's crap!

[Craig MacDonald]

do we really want to take a chance on having beer spilled on a $5000 gig rig when a $999 rig will get us through the gig.

 

 

So instead of paying $100 a year for musical equipment insurance to get COMPLETE accidental coverage for a top notch gig rig, you compromise sound and ergonomics so that you don;t feel so bad when someone spills a beer into your organ and you are only out $999????

 

Does not make much sense to me....

 

 

I'm not sure that this is purely dollar and cents issue.. would you take your mint B3 out to some real shit hole to play and not worry about it getting damaged from flying beer bottles because you've got it insured? I don't think so!

 

Dave you keep poking at different aspects of this VR-09 looking for holes, and what we like about the VR-09 is the whole package, the value and the price point.. You cannot argue with that.. and I will respond to your other specific points shortly.

[brenner13]

Thanks, Craig. I was trying to figure out whether this would be closer to the Jupiter's engine or the Fantom's engine (which I'm very familiar with). It looks like the "waveform list" is top secret...it doesn't appear in the documentation.

 

The PCM list is identical to the new Jupiters'. If you have downloaded the app, you can view them by pressing the wave button on the synth screen until the red light next to PCM illuminates. Then tap the number field next to that to cause it to highlight blue, then press the numbers again. At the bottom of the pop-up list press select or cancel to exit. A tad clunky at first, but once you've done it...

 

Brenner,

 

I'm just scanning this list and realizing that the Jupiter VA has a pretty comprehensive list of waves that goes well beyond what's set up in the default voices that come with the VR-09.. So for example there isn't a "bagpipe" sound in the synth section.. HOWEVER, the VA synth has a bagpipe wave, so can easily create a bagpipe sound using the Jupiter engine and store it as a registration.. AND since you can store unlimited registrations on a USB stick, you really do have access to a lot more soundsthan you might think, including acoustic sounds.

 

I also have to say that this Jupiter Synth and the editor seems pretty well organized and easy to understand.. just select the wave you want as a starting point and the rest is pretty straight forward.. wow I'm really loving this thing..

 

Yep, there's lots of capability for a programmer to make thousands of different sounds. I've got about 10 so far...makes me want to sing the Happy Happy Joy Joy song.

 

Bagpipes, aye? Can't stop me self, now...

 

[Josh Paxton]

So instead of paying $100 a year for musical equipment insurance to get COMPLETE accidental coverage for a top notch gig rig, you compromise sound and ergonomics so that you don't feel so bad when someone spills a beer into your $999 organ????

 

Yup. Unapologetically and with gusto.

 

That is, unless you can find me some $100/year insurance that will not only cover the complete replacement cost, but will also compensate me financially for the lost time, effort and emotional distress of having a cherished instrument replaced. Until then I don't consider it a valid comparison.

 

Does not make much sense to me....

 

Then might I recommend considering it within the context of the multitude of other influencing factors that have been carefully explained numerous times, rather than picking out the one part that makes the least sense to you in isolation, and holding up a caricature of it for ridicule?

[Craig MacDonald]

YES this seems to be Daves main problem.. he keeps trying to poke holes in specific aspects of the VR-09 rather than stepping back and looking at all that it can do..

[BigJPatton]

Yeah, I've been playing dumps my whole life and can count the times I've seen gear damaged on my thumb and forefinger, making a circle for zero.

 

I'd rather spend the same money on an older clone if I were on a budget and looking for an organ for gigs personally, because while I've only heard the clips they don't really impress like I would expect on a board touting a dedicated organ section, I think even an Electro 2 would be better and with that you get waterfall keys.

 

To me this is a nice option for rehearsal or for a top board to add a few sounds to the meat and potatoes, but I'd have a hard time walking into a gig with just the VR-09, especially with just 61 keys.

[Ekewaka]

If it's not Hammond, it's crap!

 

 

I think the better approach is to try a VR-09 at a store and find out if you like the keyboard itself or not (like in my case.)

 

PS: You might get used Nord Electro 2s and possible Electro3s for something just over 1k today.

[Craig MacDonald]

the VR-09 is going to cause a lot of people to ask themselves why they're paying almost twice the price for a Nord or Hammond

 

Hmmm... Let me see...

 

 

Hammond: Great keybed, top notch B3 sound, decent EP's and AP's... Great customer service

 

Roland: Crappy keybed (I know... my opinion... I played it at NAMM), inferior leslie sim, inferior Hammond sound, poor customer service (again, my experience with many Roland synths that I own)

 

That's why some of us would pay more... You usually do get what you pay for.

 

Dave you seem to be overlooking the fact that the VR-09 is superior to the Hammond in many ways... when compared to the SK1, the VR-09 has:

 

- better split/layer capabilties

- better quality extra voices overall (my opinon)

- more comprehensive sound set (for example the SK has no warm strings?)

- built in General Midi synth

- built in looper/drum loops

- top of the line Jupiter VA synth

- free iPad editor

- Joystick

 

These things are not incendentals, they are very significant features and advantages over the SK1! Furthermore, I don't happen to agree with you that the keyboard is crappy, I think it's fine, nice and firm but with a nice high trigger point (it took Hammond a year and a half to fix this problem with the SK trigger point). By purchasing a VR-09 I might be making a bit of a compromise on the Hammond sound and playability but in this case some of the above features are more important to me than a waterfall keyboard!

 

Despite your suggestion that you get your money's worth, you're getting a lot more than $999 worth of value out of this VR-09. I paid twice that for my SK1, and it didn't do half of what this VR-09 does.

 

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

Hammond: Great keybed, top notch B3 sound, decent EP's and AP's... Great customer service.

 

Agreed on all counts. If the Sk boards had a more useful selection of extra voices and allowed splitting and layering of two non-organ sounds, we wouldn't be having this conversation. (And for that matter, I think it's possible the VR-09 wouldn't exist.) But it's not that board and it's not meant to fill that niche. For gigs where all I need are 61 notes of B3, EPs and APs, the VR will stay home, and the Sk1 will continue to be my board of choice just like it has for...

 

Hey, wait just a second here.

 

Was that what I think it was?

 

Was that Hammonddave saying something positive about the Hammond-Suzuki Sk1?!?

 

All right, fess up, which one of you clowns hacked his account?

[HammondDave]

 

I'm not sure that this is purely dollar and cents issue.. would you take your mint B3 out to some real shit hole to play and not worry about it getting damaged from flying beer bottles because you've got it insured? I don't think so!

 

Actually, that's just what I did with my XK3c System. Sure, I could have gigged with some crappy lightweight clone that cost 1/3 the price, but I didn't. I just made sure that all my equipment was insured. One guy dropped my XK3c when loading out. It took 2 days to replace it with a new one through my insurance company. They said "buy a new one and send us the receipt"... done...

 

 

[HammondDave]

Hammond: Great keybed, top notch B3 sound, decent EP's and AP's... Great customer service.

 

Agreed on all counts. If the Sk boards had a more useful selection of extra voices and allowed splitting and layering of two non-organ sounds, we wouldn't be having this conversation. (And for that matter, I think it's possible the VR-09 wouldn't exist.) But it's not that board and it's not meant to fill that niche. For gigs where all I need are 61 notes of B3, EPs and APs, the VR will stay home, and the Sk1 will continue to be my board of choice just like it has for...

 

Hey, wait just a second here.

 

Was that what I think it was?

 

Was that Hammonddave saying something positive about the Hammond-Suzuki Sk1?!?

 

All right, fess up, which one of you clowns hacked his account?

 

Before you get too excited... The Sk1 looks favorable to me only in comparison to the Roland...

 

Up against a KeyB or Mojo... or even a XK3c... I don't think so...

[HammondDave]

 

Despite your suggestion that you get your money's worth, you're getting a lot more than $999 worth of value out of this VR-09. I paid twice that for my SK1, and it didn't do half of what this VR-09 does.

 

 

 

Craig... It's only my OPINION.... worth as much as anyone else's....

[brenner13]

 

I'm not sure that this is purely dollar and cents issue.. would you take your mint B3 out to some real shit hole to play and not worry about it getting damaged from flying beer bottles because you've got it insured? I don't think so!

 

Actually, that's just what I did with my XK3c System. Sure, I could have gigged with some crappy lightweight clone that cost 1/3 the price, but I didn't. I just made sure that all my equipment was insured. One guy dropped my XK3c when loading out. It took 2 days to replace it with a new one through my insurance company. They said "buy a new one and send us the receipt"... done...

 

 

Wow, I had always assumed insurance to be 10 times that much. I have become smitten with this little $999 keyboard and would probably cry if were damaged at its first gig this weekend. Definitely gonna check into some coverage for the rig, now.

[Adan]

Thanks for the review FKS.

 

It should be obvious that the VR09 fills a niche that the SK1 does not. If you're playing pop and need synth sounds, brass, pitch bending, etc . . . and want a passable organ clone, there's nothing else any where near that price point.

[garnermike]

the VR-09 is going to cause a lot of people to ask themselves why they're paying almost twice the price for a Nord or Hammond

 

Hmmm... Let me see...

 

Hammond: Great keybed, top notch B3 sound, decent EP's and AP's... Great customer service

 

Roland: Crappy keybed (I know... my opinion... I played it at NAMM), inferior leslie sim, inferior Hammond sound, poor customer service (again, my experience with many Roland synths that I own)

 

That's why some of us would pay more... You usually do get what you pay for.

 

You're a Hammond guy, Dave. Always was, always will be....

 

I find the rotary sim on the VR-09 to be superior to the SK1; personally taste, I guess. I am not married, as you are, to the notion that "that Hammond sound" has to come from a Hammond; the VR-09 offers a very nice "Hammond" sound---good enough to my ears, and to most ears in a typical audience. The keybed is OK. My experience with customer service at Hammond and Roland has been about equal.

[iluvchiclets]

Hi all,

 

I only became aware of this forum after looking on-line for information about this new VR-09. Reading through all these posts has given me a lot of information. Well done everyone!

 

I am eager to hear one when it arrives at Long and McQuade...they said there should be stock anytime soon at the location nearest me (Burlington). I am also very eager to give the organ a listen to...initially I thought it might just be a "Hammond-like" sound that is featured in almost any synth, but was pleased to note such factors as leakage and key-click levels. It seems that Roland has paid more than a cursory nod to a Hammond player with those realistic points to edit.

 

A very important point for me is the price of this keyboard. That is what makes this special. I think most of us can agree that there are better, or more realistic, Hammond clones out there. A thousand dollars is a lot of money for me, likely a purchase that will take me years to pay back. So stepping up even to the SK1 is out of the question, even though I love the sound of it. If I had 2 or 3 thousand dollars available to spend, I would consider going with a Hammond or Nord. The magic here is what it has to offer for the price - a keyboard that gives you all the basics plus that "Hammond feeling"...something with realistic C/V and leakage that breaths (and hopefully barks) like a real organ.

 

I am hoping the VR-09 satisfies me on these points, I will write back with my impressions once I finally get to listen to one carefully.

 

I also have VB3 and Native Instrument's Vintage Organs...they are fantastic in a lot of ways, but I have yet to feel comfortable using a computer in a playing-live situation. Loading samples and ASIO interfaces have so far taken away from the live playing experience for me. My goal is to be able to finance and perfect that situation one day. Until then, the VR-09 is very intriguing if just for the organ sound alone!

 

It's the list price that is most important to me in this instance. I love the thought of realistic clones becoming cheaper and cheaper in a keyboard format.

 

 

[voxpops]

Good points, iluvchiclets.

I love the thought of realistic clones becoming cheaper and cheaper in a keyboard format.

I would love to see a "mini-Mojo" with VB3 in a single manual configuration - and priced to compete with the Roland!

[Dglavko]

Hi all,

 

I only became aware of this forum after looking on-line for information about this new VR-09. Reading through all these posts has given me a lot of information. Well done everyone!

 

I am eager to hear one when it arrives at Long and McQuade...they said there should be stock anytime soon at the location nearest me (Burlington). I am also very eager to give the organ a listen to...initially I thought it might just be a "Hammond-like" sound that is featured in almost any synth, but was pleased to note such factors as leakage and key-click levels. It seems that Roland has paid more than a cursory nod to a Hammond player with those realistic points to edit.

 

A very important point for me is the price of this keyboard. That is what makes this special. I think most of us can agree that there are better, or more realistic, Hammond clones out there. A thousand dollars is a lot of money for me, likely a purchase that will take me years to pay back. So stepping up even to the SK1 is out of the question, even though I love the sound of it. If I had 2 or 3 thousand dollars available to spend, I would consider going with a Hammond or Nord. The magic here is what it has to offer for the price - a keyboard that gives you all the basics plus that "Hammond feeling"...something with realistic C/V and leakage that breaths (and hopefully barks) like a real organ.

 

I am hoping the VR-09 satisfies me on these points, I will write back with my impressions once I finally get to listen to one carefully.

 

I also have VB3 and Native Instrument's Vintage Organs...they are fantastic in a lot of ways, but I have yet to feel comfortable using a computer in a playing-live situation. Loading samples and ASIO interfaces have so far taken away from the live playing experience for me. My goal is to be able to finance and perfect that situation one day. Until then, the VR-09 is very intriguing if just for the organ sound alone!

 

It's the list price that is most important to me in this instance. I love the thought of realistic clones becoming cheaper and cheaper in a keyboard format.

 

They have had a demo model at long and mcquade Toronto down the road for a couple of weeks now if you are able to make the trek. That said, I tried it out (and heard Craig playing his too) but despite that just sprung for a used Sk1 for only $200 more than the VR will cost (new).

 

I was impressed with the VR09, and there are definitely things it does better than or as good as the sk, but in the end I couldn't sit with another diving board action in my arsenal. But I would be content with it and its shortcomings as I think I will be with the sk1 as well. (Neither board is perfect.)

 

But Craig's comments about a light weight rig under one arm do resonate loudly. I may just add an ipad and take a cab to my next gig and have that third pint after the set is done!!

 

Cheers!

 

[Craig MacDonald]

A very important point for me is the price of this keyboard. That is what makes this special. I think most of us can agree that there are better, or more realistic, Hammond clones out there. A thousand dollars is a lot of money for me, likely a purchase that will take me years to pay back. So stepping up even to the SK1 is out of the question, even though I love the sound of it. If I had 2 or 3 thousand dollars available to spend, I would consider going with a Hammond or Nord. The magic here is what it has to offer for the price - a keyboard that gives you all the basics plus that "Hammond feeling"...something with realistic C/V and leakage that breaths (and hopefully barks) like a real organ.

 

I am hoping the VR-09 satisfies me on these points, I will write back with my impressions once I finally get to listen to one carefully.

 

 

If you're interested in hearing one, you're welcome to contact me by PM. I'm only about 45 minutes away from Burlington (I'm in Markham). If you want to come by for a visit you can see, hear, and play with it. I can also demonstrate the editor, and the tweaks I've made to get a pretty good sounding Hammond organ. We can also chat and make sure this is the right keyboard for you.. You can tell me more about what you're looking for and we can see if its a good fit.

 

Just send me a message if you're interested!

 

[iluvchiclets]

Thanks Dglavko and Craig MacDonald,

 

I was aware a few of the keyboards had made it out in the Toronto area...just none near me.

 

Nice score on the used SK1! If I saw one for that price I don't think I could resist.

 

Craig, that is a more than generous offer. I don't think with work and family commitments I would be able to take you up on it, but it is very kind just the same. I think I am content right now to sit and wait for one to show up to give it a try. To be honest, key action is not that important to me as I can usually assimilate to any sort of style. I too grew up with a real Hammond, clavinet, and Rhodes so I can pretty much get used to anything. In fact, I had a Korg M50 for over two years and I grew quite fond of the action (something I am ashamed of mentioning on some forums...)

 

Craig, I have made notes on the tweaks you mentioned. I will certainly try them out when I get a chance on the VR. Thank you all for the very friendly welcome.

[Craig MacDonald]

Craig, I have made notes on the tweaks you mentioned. I will certainly try them out when I get a chance on the VR. Thank you all for the very friendly welcome.

You're very welcome, if you change your mind don't hesitate to PM me. When you do get a chance to try it, find to the "Bay Area B3" registration and then start to adjust the tone control and edit the organ parameters from there. I think you'll find omethimg you like pretty quickly.

[LX88]

I went to hear the VR-09 at my local music store yesterday.

 

I am not going to pull any punches. There may be a potentially SERIOUS flaw in the design of this clonewwheel engine.

 

Please say it ain't so. Somebody please tell me this can be fixed in the editing process.

 

So, no punches pulled here. Right out of the box, the VR-09 that I played has VIBRATO IN THE PERCUSSION, right along with the vibrato from the drawbar sounds when chorus vibrato is engaged.

 

In a real Hammond, there is vibrato from the drawbars but the percussion has none - ever. It is always just a straight tone. That's what gives the Hammond it's unique character when the chorus vibrato is applied .

 

Now, I did not have enough time to find out if this can be edited out. If it doesn't its a damn shame, because the VR-09 has a nice clonewheel engine otherwise.

 

The good chorus vibrato is there (if you turn off the leslie sim to hear it)and this C/V is similar to what I recall in the VK8m.

 

Roland haters take note. The C/V in this thing is good. All the way into the upper octaves.

 

The leslie sim is also good. Not too much "wah wah wah " in either fast or slow speeds. It sounds natural and nice. Big plus there.

 

Out of the box, the overdrive seemed a bit extreme, particularly in adding high frequencies. Hopefully, this can be edited.

 

I thought the drawbar tones were good. Neither the percussion nor the upper drawbars seemed shrill. The percussion was not too loud, and could hopefully be edited to be louder if you wanted that.

 

The upper drawbars could be backed off to sound reasonable, if you think they might be a bit shrill when pulled all the way out. Back upper drawbars off and use the tone control and this thing did not seem shrill.

 

But back to this damn percussion warble. If you want to call it rinky dink sounding, that could very well be the cause of it.

 

When 3rd percussion, slow decay is used and the drawbars are pushed all the way in, there it is .... you hear the percussion warbling away. I couldn't believe it.

 

I hope to god this can be removed.

 

If you are a player that uses no chorus vibrato with or without percussion, the VR 09 is pretty damn good. If you use fast decay you could " sort of " not notice it I guess, though I suspected something was not right with the percussion immediately. Push the drawbars in , and there it is. It didn't take long to find.

 

I am one of those people who uses slow decay, third harmonic and NO LESILE SIM a lot. And if that warble won't go away, I have no use for this thing - at least as par as purchaing one is concerned.

 

I thought the keys seemed OK. They are pretty sturdy and my only issue is the amount of travel seems a bit shallow. But a lot of broken in Hammonds arethat way too. The Fatar keybeds are somewhat tougher than this. I think a player could get used to it for organ playing.

 

But I want to find out about this percussion issue. Stephen Fortner and Craig Mc Donald etc. didn't hear this? I hope I had a buggy unit. If I did, the VR 09 could be a damn good clonewheel for the money.

 

So say it ain't so.

[RetroVintageOld]

Ive been skimming this thread and keep seeing things about the expression pedal. Am I correct in understanding that the VRo9 can not layer an organ and piano sound and have the expression pedal only control the organ?

[Craig MacDonald]

Right out of the box, the VR-09 that I played has VIBRATO IN THE PERCUSSION, right along with the vibrato from the drawbar sounds when chorus vibrato is engaged.

 

In a real Hammond, there is vibrato from the drawbars but the percussion has none - ever. It is always just a straight tone. That's what gives the Hammond it's unique character when the chorus vibrato is applied .

 

LX88, I'm sorry to say that mine does this too.. I didn't notice it because I NEVER use percussion with slow decay (where it is most noticable).. Just a silly quirk of this problem... I checked to see if it happens on all keys and it does EXCEPT FOR ONE.. when using 3rd hamonic percussion there is no v/c on the percussion of the F (second from the bottom)..

 

I will report this to my Roland Rep, others who have VR-09's should also report this flaw as well. At the same time let's put this into perspective.. I NEVER use percusson on normal decay, always fast decay and I didn't notice this at all during my normal play (although the percussion does seem a bit "bellish" to me, maybe this is a contributing factor).

 

So aside from this Percussion/C/V issue, here's what you thought:

 

You liked the C/V (similar to the VK8m which you love)

The leslie sim is also good.

Overdrive is a little extreme.

Drawbar Tones were good.

The Keyboard is OK.

 

Overall that sounds like a pretty positive review, with the exception of the percussion/C/V bug that all of the other VR-09 owners didn't notice.

 

I will report the bug.. others should too, the C/V is not supposed to go through the percussion.

 

[Josh Paxton]

Right out of the box, the VR-09 that I played has VIBRATO IN THE PERCUSSION, right along with the vibrato from the drawbar sounds when chorus vibrato is engaged. [...]

 

So say it ain't so.

 

I'm afraid it's so.

 

I just checked mine, and you're right, there's chorus in the percussion all right. What's more, it appears not to be an editable parameter. (Of course that part doesn't surprise me, because it's not something that anyone would want if they had a choice.) I wouldn't put my hand on a stack of technical manuals and swear that it isn't editable, because I've only had the board for a couple days and I don't know everything about it yet. But I looked through all the obvious ways you might be able to edit such a thing, and got no results.

 

That's a bummer. I'll admit I hadn't noticed it before you pointed it out, but now I sure do. (In my defense, I've just been using my usual setting of fast 3rd soft percussion with C2 and the Leslie on, in which case it's not that noticeable.) And yeah, it sounds kinda... well, "rinky-dink" would be a good description.

 

I feel another email to the tech support suggestion box coming on...

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by Craig.

[LX88]

Craig

 

The warble is there on fast decay too.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Ive been skimming this thread and keep seeing things about the expression pedal. Am I correct in understanding that the VRo9 can not layer an organ and piano sound and have the expression pedal only control the organ?

YES this is correct, this is a very significant issue from my perspective, because I often want to split/layer an acoustic instrument with organ and I want only the organ to be controlled by the expression pedal. There is a work around using an external midi box, but it's a $149 solution.. I have reported this to my Roland rep, and others who have one should do the same. The more they hear about this, especially if they hear that people are NOT purchasing a VR-09 because of this, hopefully they'll fix it.. (no need for any "when pigs can fly" pictures..)..

[Craig MacDonald]

Craig

 

The warble is there on fast decay too.

 

LX88 yes I know that, I just suggested that it was more noticable on slow decay..

[LX88]

If you guys were digging the VR 09 before I pointed this out DON'T LET ME SPOIL IT FOR YA.

 

And it don't want to sound bitchy about the VR 09.There is a lot to like there. If they could fix that percussion bug it would be potentially great.

 

I haven't even discussed the EP's,but I didn't get a lot of time with them. Honestly I spent a lot of time trying to figure out changing the percussion decay to slow so I could see what was really going on.

 

But.... the Roland designers didn't catch this?...it baffles me.

I guess they just thought..."oh well, good enough".