Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

If they fix the expression pedal thing, I'd buy one today. If they don't, I still might eventually buy one, but it wouldn't be an easy decision.

 

It's a $999 keyboard, I see it as almost "disposable" at this price point.. The idea that I can get a good quality drawbar organ, a virtual analog synth and some pretty good set of samples that covers everything from a reasonably good acoustic piano/EP/Clavs to strings and almost everything you might need to cover gig in a 12 pound package for $999, makes this a no brainer.. Even if it's just for rehearsals, or back up in case I have a problem with my Kronos or Mojo.

[Ekewaka]

If they fix the expression pedal thing, I'd buy one today. If they don't, I still might eventually buy one, but it wouldn't be an easy decision.

 

It's a $999 keyboard, I see it as almost "disposable" at this price point.. The idea that I can get a good quality drawbar organ, a virtual analog synth and some pretty good set of samples that covers everything from a reasonably good acoustic piano/EP/Clavs to strings and almost everything you might need to cover gig in a 12 pound package for $999, makes this a no brainer.. Even if it's just for rehearsals, or back up in case I have a problem with my Kronos or Mojo.

 

I thought it was a no-brainer but testing the keyboard itself made it a no-brainer for me to cancel my pre-order. Good sound, keyes worse than most low-cost MIDI controllers out there. Just my opinion. If Roland snuck in an Edirol key bed into this product it would have actually become a no-brainer deal.

[Craig MacDonald]

Well I think it's fine and I will have no problem getting used to it.. Different keyboards for different people, I guess. I have a Roland Edirol PCR-800 sitting right beside the VR-09 and they feel pretty much the same to me, although the VR keyboard seems a bit firmer/better to me.

[Josh Paxton]

hey maybe someone could inlighten me on this point. ive always been a piano/synth based player and never really got into organ rooted music till recently. can you guys explain to me why the volume pedal is so important for organ playing if we have velocity sensitive keys? i understand the reason on old school organs where there was no volume sensitivy, but nowadays, is there still a purpose other than keeping it genuine to the origional?

i have an expression pedal and would be intrested in learing how to use it with the organ. thnks

 

Remember that expression is different than volume.. as the expression pedal goes down you get more grit, distortion, overdrive.. and organ itself is NOT touch sensitive, and organ players have developed techniques using expression pedal, as well as manipulating drawbars AND percussion to take an instrument that essentially does not have the expressiveness of an acoustic instrument, and make it expressive.

 

I would add to this by saying that the kind of expressiveness you get out of velocity-sensitive keys is simply very different sonically than the kind of expressiveness you get out of a pedal. Not to say that one is "better" than the other, but neither is an adequate substitute for the other. That's one reason the non-velocity-sensitive "electric pianos" from the '70s were never any good at filling in for a piano (though some of them made some interesting noises in their own right). That's also why most modern boards don't apply velocity sensitivity to organ sounds, even though they could -- because doing so makes it sound less like an organ.

 

(On a tangential note, am I remembering correctly that there was a clone some years back that offered velocity-sensitive percussion? That seems like a potentially interesting avenue to explore, which I'm a little surprised we haven't seen more of.)

[Ekewaka]

The key bed action in VR-09 is short and stiff, i.e. for me little place to really feel what's going on, more like a zero/one switch, which is not fun. Anyway, just my opinion and I still think the downfall of Roland will be all the cheap key beds they have produced recently.

[Craig MacDonald]

Well I think they'll sell a lot of VR-09's and I think the keyboard is fine! I don't think the target audience here is high end professionals except perhaps those who are looking for a lightweight drawbar organ for small gigs or rehearsals.. But there is no denying that this keyboard sets a new price point for a good quality drawbar organ.

[agitato]

How does the quality of the 09's synth leads/pads and non-piano acoustic sounds, strings, brass, reeds, flutes,etc., compare with the microstation and/or the mx49/61?

[Ekewaka]

Well I think they'll sell a lot of VR-09's and I think the keyboard is fine! I don't think the target audience here is high end professionals except perhaps those who are looking for a lightweight drawbar organ for small gigs or rehearsals.. But there is no denying that this keyboard sets a new price point for a good quality drawbar organ.

 

Well, I'm no high end professional, not even picky about key beds but the VR-09 was a weak one, indeed, even non-professional me didn't like it. But as I said, everyone has their own opinions and levels of tolerance. If I pay $999 for a keyboard the keys should feel OK to play. The sounds were good, even if I would have spent a little bit more time refining the solo synth sounds, most of them sounded like a typical Japanese demo patch setup. I think the engine could do far more analog-creamy sounds.

[Adan]

If they fix the expression pedal thing, I'd buy one today. If they don't, I still might eventually buy one, but it wouldn't be an easy decision.

 

It's a $999 keyboard, I see it as almost "disposable" at this price point.. The idea that I can get a good quality drawbar organ, a virtual analog synth and some pretty good set of samples that covers everything from a reasonably good acoustic piano/EP/Clavs to strings and almost everything you might need to cover gig in a 12 pound package for $999, makes this a no brainer.. Even if it's just for rehearsals, or back up in case I have a problem with my Kronos or Mojo.

 

I wouldn't argue with that for a minute. My agenda just happens to be different. I'm doing much more solo piano and much fewer band gigs than I used to, with no prospect of that changing anytime soon. (I'd be happy not to do any band gigs at all, but I keep getting calls.) So my next move will probably be to get rid of the Kronos and the SK1 and instead go with something like the VR-09. But since it's going to be my primary gigging keyboard, it's got to check a few essential boxes.

 

As for the action, I think it's pretty bad for piano, but much more in the useable realm for organ and synth.

[NeedMoreBass]

If they fix the expression pedal thing, I'd buy one today. If they don't, I still might eventually buy one, but it wouldn't be an easy decision.

 

It's a $999 keyboard, I see it as almost "disposable" at this price point.. The idea that I can get a good quality drawbar organ, a virtual analog synth and some pretty good set of samples that covers everything from a reasonably good acoustic piano/EP/Clavs to strings and almost everything you might need to cover gig in a 12 pound package for $999, makes this a no brainer.. Even if it's just for rehearsals, or back up in case I have a problem with my Kronos or Mojo.

 

I wouldn't argue with that for a minute. My agenda just happens to be different. I'm doing much more solo piano and much fewer band gigs than I used to, with no prospect of that changing anytime soon. (I'd be happy not to do any band gigs at all, but I keep getting calls.) So my next move will probably be to get rid of the Kronos and the SK1 and instead go with something like the VR-09. But since it's going to be my primary gigging keyboard, it's got to check a few essential boxes.

 

As for the action, I think it's pretty bad for piano, but much more in the useable realm for organ and synth.

 

 

If you're mainly playing solo piano why would you consider the VR-09 instead of something like a PX-5S?

[Ekewaka]

 

If you're mainly playing solo piano why would you consider the VR-09 instead of something like a PX-5S?

 

Agree, same price, totally different experience concerning piano and playability and you get tons of synth sounds underneath if you ever want them. As for organ sounds, usable. As for EP and clav sounds, wow and this is just the beginning of future PS-5S EP sound sets.

 

If you ever need even better organ sounds, use an iPad with GarageBand or laptop, hook in a good MIDI controller for $300 or less and you are all set. PS: You get mellotron sounds too as a bonus and much more. PSS: And if you don't want to bring another small midi controller to gigs, hook the PX-5S USB straight to your iPad or laptop.

[garnermike]

My VR-09 arrives Wednesday. Can't wait. Have been using an SK1 for 18 months; before that, I used a Roland VR-760. Have always hated the fast rotary sim on the SK1; not adjustable enough to slow it down to my taste. I see by the VR-09 manual and hear from early users of the VR-09 that this won't be an issue with the VR-09. The VR-760 had very decent piano and synth sections, and I expect they will be matched if not exceeded by the VR-09. And going from the VR-760's 49 lbs (plus 20 lb case) to the VR-09's 12 lbs (and 5 lb bag) will be heaven.

[Dglavko]

Having played them both albeit briefly, I don't think you'll dig the vr fast leslie more than the sk.

[garnermike]

I think I will like it, Dglavko, because I've now taken to playing my SK1 using the Roland RT-20 rotary pedal (not using the SK1's internal rotory sim). With that pedal, I can slow that fast rotary down to 0 if I wanted to. The VR-09 manual shows the adjustable range/scale of the fast rotary running from 0 to 127. On the SK1, the fast rotary bottoms out at 375 on its scale and I find that too fast.

[brenner13]

It's been said that this is Roland's best attempt to date, yet the fast rotary is still a tad off to my semi-novice ear...Sounds good as it's getting there, but don't care to leave it there long. Too much wowowow; not enough whoosh...does that make sense? Anxious to take your suggestion and slow it down a little...THANKS for the tip!

I have been using a Boss RT-20 on Yamaha's EX5 rock organ patch for several years, but have somewhat limited tone adjustment on that sound. The VR was intended to replace the Yammy AND the RT for gigs, but the VR's ac pianos are really bending my ear. Maybe they'll sound better mixed with the band.

[Plassgard]

The Keybed isn´t the best I ever tried but I had no problems getting used to it. For fast organs, leads etc it´s excellent. Not the best I´ve ever played for Pianos but it works.

 

I´ve played mine for one and a half week now and I´m very pleased with it.

[Craig MacDonald]

The Keybed isn´t the best I ever tried but I had no problems getting used to it. For fast organs, leads etc it´s excellent. Not the best I´ve ever played for Pianos but it works.

 

I´ve played mine for one and a half week now and I´m very pleased with it.

I agree completely, I have no idea what the fuss is all about with this keyboard.. it's perfectly fine for organs (it has fast triggering), and leads etc.. OF COURSE it's not going to be great for pianos.. what non-weighted 61 note keyboard is good for pianos..?

 

I've had my VR-09 for over 2 weeks and I reall like it!

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

It's been said that this is Roland's best attempt to date, yet the fast rotary is still a tad off to my semi-novice ear...Sounds good as it's getting there, but don't care to leave it there long. Too much wowowow; not enough whoosh...does that make sense? Anxious to take your suggestion and slow it down a little...THANKS for the tip!

I'm not sure that it's fast speed that is the problem with the Rotary Sim on the VR-09, I think what you're describing is more likely that you're looking for a "close miced" sound.. The VR-09 has limited leslie adjustments.. just fast/slow speeds and acceleration of both the tweeter and rotor. There are no mic angles, desceleration speeds, or mic distance parameters, at least as it stands today..

 

That said, if I had to pick one parameter I miss it's the mic distance.. I love to hear the woosh woosh of the horn passing by the mic.. it's the sound that I heard on a lot of classic rock albums when I was young and the sound that got me playing organ. Brenner, I could be wrong but I tend to think that what you're talking about the same thing here.

 

I have to say that I'm pretty happy with the built in sim! However, I think that some time later this week I'm going to try the VR-09 through my Ventilator, just for curiousity and see what it sounds like.

[Craig MacDonald]

One other little thing I like about the VR-09.. it has a REALLY quiet output.. I have plugged it directly into my QSC K10's and at medium to high volume there is absolutely no hum or hiss. The noise floor is zero.. I think this is perhaps the quietest output I've ever had on a keyboard. On that point, there also is no "noise" parameter on the organ/leslie sim.. I've never played a real Hammond/leslie that didn't have some noise and this noise is just part of the sound.. it perhaps may also be contributing to the lack of whosh whosh when the leslie is on tremolo.

[brenner13]

I'm not sure that it's fast speed that is the problem with the Rotary Sim on the VR-09, I think what you're describing is more likely that you're looking for a "close miced" sound.. The VR-09 has limited leslie adjustments.. just fast/slow speeds and acceleration of both the tweeter and rotor. There are no mic angles, desceleration speeds, or mic distance parameters, at least as it stands today..

 

That said, if I had to pick one parameter I miss it's the mic distance.. I love to hear the woosh woosh of the horn passing by the mic.. it's the sound that I heard on a lot of classic rock albums when I was young and the sound that got me playing organ. Brenner, I could be wrong but I tend to think that what you're talking about the same thing here.

 

I have to say that I'm pretty happy with the built in sim!

 

Thanks Craig, you nailed the sound I hear in my head and am attempting with the sim. I did find that switching the Rotary to Type 1 really brightened the tone but at the sacrifice of the mid-bottom girth. Some of that can be brought back with the low gain option on the organ menu. Switching the MFX to Phaser is loads more fun than Ring-Mod.

 

It is agreed that more options would be nice, but I'm having a blast and concur that the keybed works well with the quick trigger org.

[Craig MacDonald]

Brenner,

 

One other tip.. the tone control is interesting in that it doesn't work like an EQ.. as you move it from one side to the other, it emphasizes different frequencies, at the same time that it de-emphasizes others.. It's like an entirely different organ. When you play with the low/high gain try it in conjunction with the Tone control.. Turn the tone control to the extreme left and right, and then play with the gain settings.. You'll find the results pretty interesting.. I use leslie type 2, with my gains flat and the tone control all the way to the left.. One last thing.. using compression will help to boost some of the weaker frequencies.. as I was playing with my VR-09 I was getting a sound I liked but it wasn't quite cutting/screaming the way I wanted, and I bumped up the compression and the thing came alive. As you're playing with tone/gain and leslie types also boost the compression to see how the sound/bite changes.. it's remarkable.

 

Glad to hear you're enjoying it..

[Plassgard]

I really like the idea of making some rhythm back tracks in Cubase and put them on the USB stick instead of using my Laptop as we use to do when we rehears without drummer. So I dragged some 44.1 khz Waw files to the USB stick and put it in the VR-09. It finds the files but wont play em. I´m not sure if it´s the file size or what it is because when I converted them to MP3´s there was no problem.

 

Now this is a minor problem, probably better to use smaller file size anyway. Now they line up perfectly in the display and I wont have to use the computer at rehearsals tomorrow.

[Adan]

I'm doing much more solo piano and much fewer band gigs than I used to, with no prospect of that changing anytime soon. .

 

 

If you're mainly playing solo piano why would you consider the VR-09 instead of something like a PX-5S?

 

 

My gigs are on real pianos. My point was just that my keyboard needs have evolved to a much more simple state. With fewer bands gigs and much less enthusiasm for them, I'm ready to downsize the rig.

[Ken Beaumont]

Adan, have you given much thought about the Roland RD-64 ? It looks like it would be right what your looking for.

[brenner13]

Agreed. The acoustic pianos in the VR are fine for quick and lively playing, but just awful for slow, pretty passages. Don't hold a note for longer than a second or you'll hear the loops cut in. Still looking for my digi pno fix.

[Adan]

Adan, have you given much thought about the Roland RD-64 ? It looks like it would be right what your looking for.

 

Should be in stores around here pretty soon, I'm eager to check it out.

[Dana.]

FYI, from the Digital Piano for Jazz gigs thread:

 

I have an RD-64 arriving at the end of the week, and it'll be interesting to see how the latest incarnation of Ivory-feel G behaves.

I can tell you: horribly. I know because I've played it. The action plays like it's broken, and the default velocity curve for the acoustic piano sounds is embarrassingly off the mark. Roland should be doing a factory recall -- it's that bad.

I really wanted to buy the RD-64. I've been looking for a compact board with great weighted action to use as a controller for virtual instruments; the RD-64 seemed ideal. But for me, the action is unplayable.

 

Having just read Jazz+'s comments about the 4F, it seems his experience with the Ivory Feel G action is similar to mine, i.e., sluggish response and velocity issues.

 

And while weight isn't a consideration for me (since I don't gig), there's no reason for the 64 to weigh more than a Privia.

[Ekewaka]

I'm doing much more solo piano and much fewer band gigs than I used to, with no prospect of that changing anytime soon. .

 

 

If you're mainly playing solo piano why would you consider the VR-09 instead of something like a PX-5S?

 

 

My gigs are on real pianos. My point was just that my keyboard needs have evolved to a much more simple state. With fewer bands gigs and much less enthusiasm for them, I'm ready to downsize the rig.

 

You should get something you like playing, not something that is cheap and light.

 

Now, by now many bigger GC stores have VR-09s and possibly PX-5S displayed, so stop by and try these out (or other units.) Thats what I did with VR-09 myself and was the reason I cancelled my pre-order. But as said, every keyboard player has their opinions about keyboards.

[Craig MacDonald]

I really like the idea of making some rhythm back tracks in Cubase and put them on the USB stick instead of using my Laptop as we use to do when we rehears without drummer. So I dragged some 44.1 khz Waw files to the USB stick and put it in the VR-09. It finds the files but wont play em. I´m not sure if it´s the file size or what it is because when I converted them to MP3´s there was no problem.

 

Now this is a minor problem, probably better to use smaller file size anyway. Now they line up perfectly in the display and I wont have to use the computer at rehearsals tomorrow.

 

I just tested my VR-09 and it has no problem seeing or playing either MP3 or Wave files.. so I'm not sure why you are having a problem.. I'm using an 8G usb flashdrive by Scandisk and I formatted it using the VR-09 (not sure if you did this?).. No problem here. If you didn't format it on the VR you might try that.

[HammondDave]

 

You should get something you like playing, not something that is cheap and light.

 

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