Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Ken Beaumont]

Possibly, I bought it for decent a Rhodes! The stock ones are pretty lame.

[simchaleh]

SO the fact that they are missing mellotron sounds isn't the end of the world when you can take 30 seconds to create them and save them as a registration!

 

I am really impressed with the ease with which you can shape sounds on this VR-09 using the effects.. wow..

hey craig. so would you say that this is the plus this keyboard has over the kronons, in that its so easy and quick to change the sounds. even though like you said, the kronos is sooo much more powerfull, however the ease of use, perhaps could bring to better results in some simple cases, since its easier at hand to bring about creative results. does that make sense to you?

[SOr1]

I've been on the verge or pulling the trigger on a VR-09 since it was announced at NAMM, and just wanted to jump in and say this thread has been great as a place where all possible considerations, pros and cons, have been fully aired - I've read every post!

 

At 812 posts, this is close to the longest gear-related thread in recent memory - we only need another 180 or so to beat out the Casio PX-5S thread

 

 

[AnotherScott]

would you say that this is the plus this keyboard has over the kronons, in that its so easy and quick to change the sounds

They each have advantages here. The VR has advantages In terms of manipulating sounds in real time without having to deal with a generic layout of unlabeled controls that may do different things at different times; and in being able to simply split and layer sounds on the fly without the complexity of setting up combis. OTOH, if you have a whole bunch of sounds (and combinations thereof) that you want to be able to recall, the VR provides you with access to 4 unlabeled buttons at a time, where the Kronos provides you with 16 labeled (touch screen) buttons at a time. So the VR lends itself more to easy on-the-fly tinkering, whereas the Kronos allows you to more easily access things you've set up and stored in the past. So when it comes to what's "easy and quick to change the sounds," each can be said to have an edge, depending on which of those approaches to changing sounds you want to do more of.

[Marillo]

I'm surprised so many regard layering and splits 'on the fly' as such an advantage. Surely most players organise these before the gig?

 

I can't imagine many live situations where I'd need this function, nor the messing up and mangling of songs using the fx sliders.

I doubt such experimentation would be welcomed by most audiences..

[Ekewaka]

I'm surprised so many regard layering and splits 'on the fly' as such an advantage. Surely most players organise these before the gig?

 

I can't imagine many live situations where I'd need this function, nor the messing up and mangling of songs using the fx sliders.

I doubt such experimentation would be welcomed by most audiences..

 

I agree. It's seldom I've dared to do complex splits/layers unless this is a harmless fun-jam set or something less important. Now, doing splits quickly for programming sets is a good thing to have.

[Craig MacDonald]

SO the fact that they are missing mellotron sounds isn't the end of the world when you can take 30 seconds to create them and save them as a registration!

 

I am really impressed with the ease with which you can shape sounds on this VR-09 using the effects.. wow..

hey craig. so would you say that this is the plus this keyboard has over the kronons, in that its so easy and quick to change the sounds. even though like you said, the kronos is sooo much more powerfull, however the ease of use, perhaps could bring to better results in some simple cases, since its easier at hand to bring about creative results. does that make sense to you?

 

I think that the Kronos is a far superior synth in almost every way, but it is a very deep synth that will take time you learn. That is not the case with the VR-09, it is not as deep, it's very easy to use, and the interface is designed to let you use live effects to create all kinds of crazy sounds, and all of this is done very easily on the VR-09. At the same time the VR-09 does have a virtual analog synth so you can do some synth programming if you want to get into that.

 

Perhaps you'll find the simplicity of the VR-09 inspiring.. but recognize that it has it's limitations.. Good example of that.. the VR-09 has predetermined effect chains.. the number of effects and the order is fixed and cannot be changed. The effects are a bit quirky on the VR-09 and by that I mean that the live effect controls affect the upper sound, and I don't think that can be changed. On the other hand with the Kronos you can put whatever effects you want in whatever order you want and there is almost no limitations, and you can have very different effects on each sound, again with almost no limitations. If you think you just want to play and spin knobs and have fun, the VR will be great fun, on the other hand if you have VERY specific sounds that you want to make, you might be better off with the Kronos.

 

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what's best for you..

[Josh Paxton]

I'm surprised so many regard layering and splits 'on the fly' as such an advantage. Surely most players organise these before the gig?

 

The main time this will be advantageous for me is on cover band gigs when the bass player has to pee mid-set, and I have to spontaneously cover for him. Being able to quickly set up a split with a left-hand bass sound comes in handy there. Of course if it's a song where I'm already using two sounds, it's not much help. But in that case I just tell him to hold it for one more tune, then we play one where I can cover him.

[Craig MacDonald]

I'm surprised so many regard layering and splits 'on the fly' as such an advantage. Surely most players organise these before the gig?

 

I can't imagine many live situations where I'd need this function, nor the messing up and mangling of songs using the fx sliders.

I doubt such experimentation would be welcomed by most audiences..

I agree as well.. all my sounds are organized in advance, and since there's no "set list" function on this keyboard, I will end up having to use the dial to move from one registration to another.. I do not see myself doing splits and layers "on the fly".. That's one place that I think Roland has missed the mark a little bit.. and another example of Roland not really knowing how the typical keyboard player would use this board (another example being the fact that the there is no option to allow the expression pedal to control or not control separate parts).

[AnotherScott]

I'm surprised so many regard layering and splits 'on the fly' as such an advantage. Surely most players organise these before the gig?

To some extent, it depends on the kind of gig, how structured the songs and arrangements are.

 

But to put things in a bit of a different perspective, long ago, a player might have 5+ boards on stage. There was little advance thought needed. You want to move your right hand from piano to clav? Just move it from the piano to the clav. That's an "on the fly" split. ;-)

 

Though also, as the other message just alluded to, for those of us who sometimes play LH bass, it's nice to be able to jump around and grab whatever RH sound we want, without having to pre-program every possible "bass and something else" split we might ever need.

[Josh Paxton]

it looks from the ipad editor that its possible for each tone to edit all 3 partitials and instead of standard wave shapes, to add pcms. that would be 3 pcms per sound, and if layered 6 pcms per sound. does anyone know how practical it is setting that up and contorlling it live. is it like really having 6 layered voices under control? do they all express nicely together?

 

Bumping that question in hopes of a followup from someone who has their hands on one already.

[Craig MacDonald]

it looks from the ipad editor that its possible for each tone to edit all 3 partitials and instead of standard wave shapes, to add pcms. that would be 3 pcms per sound, and if layered 6 pcms per sound. does anyone know how practical it is setting that up and contorlling it live. is it like really having 6 layered voices under control? do they all express nicely together?

 

Bumping that question in hopes of a followup from someone who has their hands on one already.

FKS, I have one and I would be happy to try and answer that question if I could, but I haven't dug into the synth side of things yet.. I'm having issues with the iPad editor, it seems to be only transmitting from the VR to the iPad, which means that I can't edit the organ or the synth yet using the iPad app because it doesn't transmit my changes to the VR-09.. obviously a bug but I'm waiting for Roland's help with it.

 

That said, I'm not sure I'll get into the synth to the degree that I could answer that question anyway..

 

[brenner13]

Just spoke with my sales guy today at a big online distributor and my VR gets a factory update before it ships...still hope to get it on Saturn Day and hope the expression pedal thing is addressed, but really hope the iPad editor works...can't sleep now.

[simchaleh]

I think that the Kronos is a far superior synth in almost every way, but it is a very deep synth that will take time you learn. That is not the case with the VR-09, it is not as deep, it's very easy to use, and the interface is designed to let you use live effects to create all kinds of crazy sounds, and all of this is done very easily on the VR-09.

however its still not clear if having the vr09 and the krome would be sufficient or if i would still prefer having the kronos, but like you said, no one can really decide that for me. i guess its a matter of money$

 

Perhaps you'll find the simplicity of the VR-09 inspiring.. but recognize that it has it's limitations..

 

i actually dont mind about the learning curve of a new deep synth. its exciting and it looks like with the kronos, that the possibilities are almost limited to the imagination.however sometimes all the posibilities may be overwhelming for one not used to such deep synths.

it seems to after your good explanation of the vr that the ease of tweaking and effects on the vr09 though is actually a really good tool for inspiration on tweaking sounds, and would actually be a great tool for starting to learn how to step up to using a deeper synth like the kronos or other ones. since it looks really easy to learn the cause and effect of different effects and their paramaters and its just 123 to experiment with each one. and would give more direction and tools later on using the bigger synth monsters. it also is very portable and usable for one who does know how to use the bigger boards.

 

OTOH, if you have a whole bunch of sounds (and combinations thereof) that you want to be able to recall, the VR provides you with access to 4 unlabeled buttons at a time, where the Kronos provides you with 16 labeled (touch screen) buttons at a time.

 

are you saying that the vr only has 4 user banks that you can store user setups (splits/layers, edited sounds etc.) and recall them on the fly? thats really limiting for performance setups. most musicians would need more than 4 editable user setups to work with that can be saved and recalled on the spot with one button. i was sure that theres more. maybe i didnt understand you right.

Sb

[Craig MacDonald]

Yes I think the VR would be a great starter synth for a couple of reasons.. it is basically an "all-in-one" covering all the basic keyboard sounds (and doing it VERY well).. AND it has the built in Virtual Analog Synth and a visual (iPad) editor for it, so rather than trying to figure out how different synth parameters interact to create and shape a sound, you get the visual representation.

 

Re your question on banks/registrations. There are 25 banks each having four buttons, so 100 different registrations available to store those sounds split/layer and tailored sounds.

[Craig MacDonald]

Just spoke with my sales guy today at a big online distributor and my VR gets a factory update before it ships...still hope to get it on Saturn Day and hope the expression pedal thing is addressed, but really hope the iPad editor works...can't sleep now.

Brenner when I hear that I think..

 

1. I hope I get it

2. I hope it fixes the few things that I don't like (expression pedal)

3. I hope it fixes a few of the bugs (retriggering notes when changing patches, editor problem etc)

4. I hope they don't screw something up..

 

 

[HammondDave]

Ha Ha.. OK Seriously Dave, it's not perfect.. and pulling off Epitaph could be a challenge, but it does have a mellotron-ish character to it for sure!! although something tells me that you might disagree ;-)

 

IT does have a pitch bend joystick, doesn't Epitaph have a part where the strings swell and jump up a tone?? (have to go listen to that).. so I could cover that part with the VR..

 

Not sure if you realize this Dave but I bought your mellotron samples about 10 years ago before we knew each other..!!

 

Craig... Just in case you forgot what a Tron sounds like... Check out 2:30...

 

[video:youtube]http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=3Hz8hjVK6Fg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3Hz8hjVK6Fg%26feature%3Dyoutu.be

 

By the way, this beautiful Mellotron Mark V is for sale... One of only 30 made... Wish I had a spare $10,000 lying around the house... My wife already put the kibosh on the XMas present hint...

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave, very nice.. if it helps I'll pitch in $10 towards the purchase of the Mark V for your birthday... I really want you to have it.

[To B3]

Just spoke with my sales guy today at a big online distributor and my VR gets a factory update before it ships...still hope to get it on Saturn Day and hope the expression pedal thing is addressed, but really hope the iPad editor works...can't sleep now.

 

That's great news, hope that fixes those bugs and annoying things like the exp pedal assigning! Wonder if Roland will anounce this update somewhere... Please, please, keep us posted, thanks!

[brenner13]

Mr. Fortner gets to try one out at leisure...that retriggering sound with patch changes is a big ugly...

 

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Fortners review is pretty much in agreement with what I've been saying.. great bang for the buck.. a few bugs with the early version (I would expect the re-triggering to be fixed asap). As he pointed out the leslie sim is better (not quite up to Ventilator/Mojo/Keyb sims but close). The clip ended quite abruptly, and there may be more to it, but he didn't say anything about the keyboard feel (no criticism). I'm looking forward to others getting theirs and some other feedback and thoughts on it!

[LX88]

I didn't hear anything in the Fortner video that remotely reminded me of what my VK8m sounded like,or the Roland RD 300GX for that matter.

 

The pianos sounded bright, certainly.

 

Is there a Wurli sound in this?

 

I still will have to get my hands on one and see what's up. When do they hit the stores?

[voxpops]

To be honest, for a so-called "live" instrument, that retriggering issue is appalling. How could the software have passed QC like that? Pretty unforgivable on Roland's part, in my opinion. I have had one on order for a couple of months; I am seriously considering cancelling.

[Ken Beaumont]

From what I saw it only happens when the sustain pedal is held down while changing patches. That's something I don't ever remember doing. I'm assuming if they have a patch out this soon, that is probably on it. That was an early model, so it might not even be in the ones shipping this month. Mine arrives tomorrow, I will check it out.

[brenner13]

New VK8M's still fetch $1399 street. Even with the quirks, this new combo packs heavy features at an easy low price; and ultra low weight to boot. The thing has USB so surely updates are in the works as Most manufacturers have done with their hardware for a decade or more.

I was second in line to prebook at my store of choice. Being the impatient type, and the wait has been sooooo long, I have thoroughly combed the market for something comparable at the same price (new and used) and found no thing that fits my needs so well. Sure there are things I wish it included (arpeggiator) and things I'd rather not have payed for (looper) but sight unseen, I'm pleased with my purchase. Here's hoping my PollyAnna speech pays off!

 

[AnotherScott]

The thing has USB so surely updates are in the works

Not sure what the correlation is there... there are boards with USB with no updates, and boards without USB that had updates...

[brenner13]

Just suggesting the ease of user installed updates via the included interface.

[Josh Paxton]

I find it odd that Roland didn't include a list of the available PCM samples in the sound list they've published for the VR. The only hint we get is a screen shot of the first nine waveforms on page 14 of the editor manual:

 

001 JP-8 Saw

002 Syn Saw Wave

003 MG Saw 1

...etc.

 

But a quick google search revealed that those first nine are exactly the same as the first nine in the Jupter 80 PCM list. The Jupiter 80 has 363 waveforms. In one of the video demos, the Roland rep mentioned that the VR has "over 350" waveforms. So it seems there's a decent chance that it's the same PCM data as in the Jupiter 80.

 

I actually hope it's not exactly the same, because I can't help noticing that the Jupiter list doesn't include any kind of brass samples. I think we'd all pretty much agree that for a live gigging board, some basic pop brass section samples would be a lot more useful than, say, gamelan, shakuhachi, and dentist drill sounds (all represented in the Jupiter). I see the VR preset list includes a few like "Tp/Tb Sect Stack" and "N. Alto Sax." I'm just hoping those involve actual samples of the instruments named, rather than attempts at mimicking them with synth waveforms.

 

If I could impose once again on our most generous early adopter Craig to report back on whether the VR has adequate brass sounds to get one through one's 8000th cheesy rendition rendition of "Brick House" and "Superstition," I would be much obliged.

[brenner13]

The iPad app has the identical PCM list as the JP's...EGAD! No ac brass. However there appears to be a few under the dedicated brass button.

 

[Josh Paxton]

Another point about the synth editor: Having dug into the manual a little more, I think I've answered one of my own earlier questions. It does seem that each sound can blend three partials, and each partial can be any waveform. So you can layer up to three waveforms (including PCMs) per sound, each with its own filter, envelopes, etc.

 

One thing I was hoping to see but didn't, is a key range parameter for each partial. That would open up a sort of "back door" to achieving more-than-two-way splits, if you needed only one or two partials for some sounds. And that seems like it could be yet another fairly easy, very useful software fix. Assuming I'm right about what I've said, that will be in my first email to Roland after I get this board.