Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks for clarifying AnotherScott!

[AnotherScott]

You know I find it really stupid to have 2 similar semi-weighted actions across their product lines. Since the keyboard market isn't huge to begin with you, lose any advantage there is to mass producing them to hold the costs down. This constant changing of key actions to cheaper actions is getting ridiculous. If your not improving the keys why change them?

I guess the action in the cheaper models is, well, cheaper. People accept them on the cheap models, but wouldn't be happy with them on a $3k Kronos where they still give you the higher quality keybed.

[Ken Beaumont]

If they made more of the better keys, wouldn't the price go down by volume? Its not like they both aren't made of plastic! Retooling costs money too!

[AnotherScott]

If they made more of the better keys, wouldn't the price go down by volume? Its not like they both aren't made of plastic! Retooling costs money too!

I wouldn't assume that the manufacturing of every plastic mechanism costs the same as every other plastic mechanism.

 

Secondarily, there may be an issue of wanting to make keybeds of lighter weight as well as lesser cost.

[Ken Beaumont]

I suspect its more an issue of most of the home studio musicians accepting these cheaper actions. The live performance scene has been steadily decreasing, and many people are just giving up. While the 18 to 20 somethings recording their stuff just to post on internet has exploded.

 

They deliver cheap goods to consumers who accept it.

And nobody important to them ever complains about the actions.

Not the trade magazines, professional reviewers or endorsers.

Hell the action could be so bad as to be damaging to your hands and certain endorsers would praise it anyway.

[Craig MacDonald]

Again, some of us don't expect that a $999 keyboard will provide a feel that we think is fantastic.. but we are willing to compromise for ease of setup and transport..

 

Why don't you call Roland and say "hey what the f..., this VR-09 keyboard is cheap!".. ? It seems to me that they would respond "well sir,it is our $999 keyboard, here's our more expensive model"!

 

What do you expect trade magazines to do.. rag on this VR-09 because it's got a low end keyboard.. are you kidding? They'll praise the value that's packed into this $999 keyboard... that's what they'll do..! AND if you asked me (and I have one sitting right here beside me) I will tell you exactly the same thing.. THERE IS AN AMAZING AMOUNT OF VALUE PACKED INTO THIS LITTLE 12 POUND KEYBOARD, and if you want something with a higher end keyboard, go look at something else.. Roland has keyboards worth 5 times the price of this, and they have significantly better keyboards!

 

This isn't rockit science.. if you want an expensive feel, go buy a more expensive keyboard. Stop bitching that this $999 VR-09 doesn't have a high end keyboard. Roland, and most of the other manufacturers, provide a lot of different options at a lot of different price points. That makes good sense.

 

 

 

 

[Ekewaka]

As for the VR-09, I would have been happy with a rack system and I could add a nice MIDI controller with the action I prefer. Not that a lot of the current MIDI controllers, like the low-end M-Audio range, are not that special.

 

Then again, the Edirol/Roland/Cakewalk keyboards are nice, oh Roland why didn't you just use those for VR-09?

[Ken Beaumont]

I'm not bitching about the VR-09 in particular here I'm complaining about all of the 3 major players here Roland, Yamaha & Korg. All of the synth semi-weighted actions have been getting cheaper and cheaper.

 

I've seen controllers with better actions than what is on their instruments. As Kenekahuna said why not use the the same action as their low cost controller?

 

Why is it that Arturia can release this: KeyLab61 for $399? It even has after touch!

 

I think what the VR-09 provides in functionality is excellent.

I'm not pissing on anyone's new purchase in particular.

 

I just don't take the usual answers about price points as valid anymore. My take is they are changing suppliers to widen the profit margin at the consumers expense. They are just taking the lowest bid from whatever Chinese, Indonesian etc manufacturer will do it.

 

And our consumer culture doesn't care as much about quality as it used to.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

As for the VR-09, I would have been happy with a rack system and I could add a nice MIDI controller with the action I prefer.

I think the main idea of the VR-09 is based on its ergonomics, the live-friendly layout and real-time controls. The sounds (all you'd really have in a rack module) are pretty run-of-the-mill. Not that I don't see the appeal, but more because of the dearth of rack modules than any great VR-09 sonic capabilities. In a sense, the Integra-7 is a rack VR-09 and a lot more, but of course, it's twice the price of the VR-09. (And it may still lag in the clonewheel dep't.)

[Ekewaka]

I personally think Roland saw a market for a low-cost Nord Electro.

 

Then again the Nord key beds are excellent.

[Ken Beaumont]

I agree, controllers and modules have their place. But you lose the just grab it and go that a board like the VR-09 gives.

Plus if you don't have to worry about setting up all the controls etc. Again I think the functionality of this thing is excellent.

 

I probably should have started a new thread about my issues with general keyboard quality.

 

Hell I haven't even received my pre-order yet to say for certain if I like the action or not on this.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

AnotherScott I agree.. it's a great entry level live performance synth.. lightweight, easy to use.. it's easily transportable for rehearsals, jam sessions, small gigs.. I can see a lot of uses for it.. (for me its' primarily a backup drawbar organ, and maybe the odd small gig)..

 

I'm not sure if the integra has this drawbar organ in it.. ? That said there's nothing stopping them from porting the VR-09 organ editor over to the Integra Editor, and giving it full drawbar organ functionality.. You never know.

[AnotherScott]

I'm not sure if the integra has this drawbar organ in it.. ? That said there's nothing stopping them from porting the VR-09 organ editor over to the Integra Editor, and giving it full drawbar organ functionality.. You never know.

The Integra does have drawbar organ in it, but the implementation is not the same. At least with the architecture as presented so far, you can't cascade fx, so, for example, you couldn't get chorus and rotary at the same time. But maybe that will change. The original Jupiter 80 has the same fx issue, and they addressed it in an update. Though I still haven't heard people raving about their Jupiter clonewheel sounds. I only played with the organ engine a little on the Jupiter 50 and did not find my way to anything very appealing. I'd be curious to know how different the VR-09 engine is (or isn't).

[NeedMoreBass]

I've had the PX-5S little over week now. I'm enjoying it as much or more than I did my SV1. The acoustic pianos are MUCH better as is the action. I actually like the pianos better than my Kronos as they are much more acoustic as not as digital as the Korg.

Interesting. I am not a big fan of the Kronos acoustic pianos, but I did like them better than the previous generation Casio (i.e. PX3/PX330).

 

 

 

 

Out of the box one could easily argue that the Kronos pianos would be better. But I've been able to tweak the PX-5S so that I can get a piano almost identical to Galaxy Vintage D, something I can't even come close to with the Kronos.

[Craig MacDonald]

I'm not sure if the integra has this drawbar organ in it.. ? That said there's nothing stopping them from porting the VR-09 organ editor over to the Integra Editor, and giving it full drawbar organ functionality.. You never know.

The Integra does have drawbar organ in it, but the implementation is not the same. At least with the architecture as presented so far, you can't cascade fx, so, for example, you couldn't get chorus and rotary at the same time. But maybe that will change. The original Jupiter 80 has the same fx issue, and they addressed it in an update. Though I still haven't heard people raving about their Jupiter clonewheel sounds. I only played with the organ engine a little on the Jupiter 50 and did not find my way to anything very appealing. I'd be curious to know how different the VR-09 engine is (or isn't).

AnotherScott, I have been able to get a pretty ballsy Hammond out of this VR-09, and I have pretty much been able to get rid of the rinky dinky "VK" sound that I always hated.. it's still a little thin here and there but it's very usable.

 

I was aware that the implementation of the drawbar organ in the integra wasn't a full VK engine (with all it's tweakability), but again it wouldn't surprise me if this was coming in an upgrade.

 

Speaking of missing tweakability.. I have not been able to find any way to change the bass pedal registation on the VR-09?? It seems that it's only editable via the iPad app.. however, I'm having a problem with the VR-09 Editor at this moment.. It's only able to transmit data one way.. so the VR-09 will update the editor screen and you can "read" the status of all the VR-09 settings, but you cannot edit the VR-09 settings from the editor app in real time... This is obviously a bug and I'm working with my roland rep on this so I'm hoping that will get sorted out quickly.

[RetroVintageOld]

Kronos 61 uses the high end semi-weighted keybed from the M3. I believe that the Krome 61/73 uses a lower end keybed. Possibly something similar (or identical) to the PS60 or M50?

 

I onwed the Krome 61 for a day and couldn't stand the action. The whole thing bent in the middle.

[simchaleh]

anyone else here who uses or used the krome and thinks it compromises well or not at all with the vr09? or thinks its not worth getting at all? thnks

[agitato]

Does the vr09 have any real instrument sounds, like horn sections, string sections,flutes, accordions, banjos,mandolins, etc.?

[NeedMoreBass]

Does the vr09 have any real instrument sounds, like horn sections, string sections,flutes, accordions, banjos,mandolins, etc.?

 

 

Download a sound list here

 

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1269/support/

[Craig MacDonald]

As NeedMoreBass pointed out there is a sound list (called Data list) document.. and it has most of the sounds you mentioned, horn section, string sections, flutes, accordions, banjos.. no mandolin that I could see.. the extra voices are pretty good and it's a pretty comprehensive list.. although it's missing mellotron sounds.

 

From my perspective the sample sets of any of todays "all-in-one" keyboards should include mellotron strings, choir and flute sounds. That said, the choir/strings/flutes on the VR-09 are pretty good, and it took me all of 30 seconds to make the "full strings" sound almost exactly like mellotron strings by adding a bit of overdrive/compression and adjusting tone control, SO the fact that they are missing mellotron sounds isn't the end of the world when you can take 30 seconds to create them and save them as a registration!

 

I am really impressed with the ease with which you can shape sounds on this VR-09 using the effects.. wow..

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

I just got shipping confirmation on mine from Sweetwater. I should have it Friday. So those who pre-ordered one should receive theirs soon.

[HammondDave]

As NeedMoreBass pointed out there is a sound list (called Data list) document.. and it has most of the sounds you mentioned, horn section, string sections, flutes, accordions, banjos.. no mandolin that I could see.. the extra voices are pretty good and it's a pretty comprehensive list.. although it's missing mellotron sounds.

 

From my perspective the sample sets of any of todays "all-in-one" keyboards should include mellotron strings, choir and flute sounds. That said, the choir/strings/flutes on the VR-09 are pretty good, and it took me all of 30 seconds to make the "full strings" sound almost exactly like mellotron strings by adding a bit of overdrive/compression and adjusting tone control, SO the fact that they are missing mellotron sounds isn't the end of the world when you can take 30 seconds to create them and save them as a registration!

 

I am really impressed with the ease with which you can shape sounds on this VR-09 using the effects.. wow..

 

 

C'mon, Craig... really? They sound like a Mellotron? What are you smoking?

 

The distinctive sound of Mellotron 3 Violins is much more than adding distortion and changing the EQ of a crappy Roland string ensemble sound.

 

First, the Mellotron 3 Violins does not sound like any looped or modeled sound. Each key is a separate 8 second record of three violins. Sometimes in tune, sometimes not. With differences in balance between the instruments, bowing, tension, and so many other variables. Plus there are idiosyncracies within the Mellotron itself that affects the sound and adds to its uniqueness.

 

Please post your recording of Epitaph with your new "Mellotron sound" from the VR09 next to the original. This I have to hear.

[Dglavko]

As NeedMoreBass pointed out there is a sound list (called Data list) document.. and it has most of the sounds you mentioned, horn section, string sections, flutes, accordions, banjos.. no mandolin that I could see.. the extra voices are pretty good and it's a pretty comprehensive list.. although it's missing mellotron sounds.

 

From my perspective the sample sets of any of todays "all-in-one" keyboards should include mellotron strings, choir and flute sounds. That said, the choir/strings/flutes on the VR-09 are pretty good, and it took me all of 30 seconds to make the "full strings" sound almost exactly like mellotron strings by adding a bit of overdrive/compression and adjusting tone control, SO the fact that they are missing mellotron sounds isn't the end of the world when you can take 30 seconds to create them and save them as a registration!

 

I am really impressed with the ease with which you can shape sounds on this VR-09 using the effects.. wow..

 

 

C'mon, Craig... really? They sound like a Mellotron? What are you smoking?

Actually, I stopped by Craig's place last week and he played his custom Mellotron patch for me and it's true. It does sound like a Mellotron!

[Craig MacDonald]

HA HA HAMMONDDAVE.....TOLD YOU!!! and I've got Dglavko to back me up!!!

 

Actually both the strings and the choirs can easily be given that Mellotron sound by dialing up a bit of overdrive, some compression and manipulating the tone control.. It's really fascinating what this $999 instrument can do with these live controls, and quite a bit of fun!! woo hoo..

[Craig MacDonald]

I just got shipping confirmation on mine from Sweetwater. I should have it Friday. So those who pre-ordered one should receive theirs soon.

I'm glad to hear that the stores are getting their supplies.. I enjoyed being the first one in North America to have one (at least that's what it seems like) but it will be nice to be able to compare notes and get some other first had experience added to this thread..

 

Good luck, I hopy you guys enjoy yours as much as I do!

[HammondDave]

HA HA HAMMONDDAVE.....TOLD YOU!!! and I've got Dglavko to back me up!!!

 

Actually both the strings and the choirs can easily be given that Mellotron sound by dialing up a bit of overdrive, some compression and manipulating the tone control.. It's really fascinating what this $999 instrument can do with these live controls, and quite a bit of fun!! woo hoo..

 

Sorry... until I hear it for myself I don't believe it. Go ahead and post Epitaph with your new Mellotron sound. Let us be the judges...

 

I think you need to listen a little closer to an actual Mellotron, and not what you think a Mellotron sounds like.

 

(but then again, you also seem to think that a VK7 sounds like a Hammond...) (Still friends... but could not resist)

[Craig MacDonald]

Ha Ha.. OK Seriously Dave, it's not perfect.. and pulling off Epitaph could be a challenge, but it does have a mellotron-ish character to it for sure!! although something tells me that you might disagree ;-)

 

IT does have a pitch bend joystick, doesn't Epitaph have a part where the strings swell and jump up a tone?? (have to go listen to that).. so I could cover that part with the VR..

 

Not sure if you realize this Dave but I bought your mellotron samples about 10 years ago before we knew each other..!!

[AnotherScott]

From my perspective the sample sets of any of todays "all-in-one" keyboards should include mellotron strings, choir and flute sounds.

It is a bit surprising how rare they are. Most of the Korg, Roland, and Yamaha boards I've played have lacked tron sounds. Sometimes they had vaguely tron-ish patches, where they seem to have applied filters and fx to other samples to make them sound a little like a tron (and given them a name reflecting that intent), but they really didn't sound like they had genuine tron samples in their soundset. I didn't really find anything close in the Yamaha MOX/XS, Korg M3/M50, or Jupiter 50/80 sound sets, for example. It was a nice surprise to see them added to the MicroKorg XL+. But generally, Kurzweil and Nord are the place to go for decent mellotron. BTW, I loaded this into the BS-16i app on my iPad, sounds great... http://www.freedrumkits.net/sound-fonts/strings/1019-watcher-mellotron-soundfont

[Ken Beaumont]

Scott,

 

I highly recommend Vintage Keys Library it not only includes mellotron samples but some other indispensable classic sounds as well.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I highly recommend Vintage Keys Library it not only includes mellotron samples

That's a good example of what I mean. You can hear its "mellotrons" at

http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/vintage-keys-voice-bank-for-yamaha-motif-mo-x.html

and they are, to my ears, pretty bad.