Contemplating the Kurz K2000...

[KingstonCrim]

I've always been a bit of a Kurzweil fan. I've got a well-worn K1000se here (that I've had pretty much since they came out), but it's starting to show a few signs of becoming unreliable.

 

For one of the PT bands I play with, I could really use some decent Hammond sounds. While I'm not a die-hard dedicated B3 purist, I do love the sound and was actually searching the local Craig's for a clone or a Voce or something to add to my setup when I came upon a used Kurz K2000 v3 with the "Sweetwater Pocket B-3 Library" on a CD-ROM.

 

I was thinking this might solve my aging k1000 problem plus give me fun some new Hammond sounds to work with (since I can't afford a Mojo...).

 

And I'd be running it through a Ventilator... so has anyone here ever used or heard this Sweetwater B-3 Library?

 

It says "Pocket B-3 contains over 75 files of classic Hammond B-3 sounds ranging in size from 28k to over 4 mb. There are over 40 different drawbar settings, including straight B-3 samples as well as luscious Chorus Vibrato samples, all fully programmed by the Sweetwater Soundware Development Facility for your K2000/K2vx/K2500."

 

Does the K2000 hold up well as a live gig instrument? I'm kinda pumped by what I've read about this axe so far and anxious to go see/hear it this week.

[johnchop]

this doesn't answer your specific question, but the K2000 is ANCIENT, and parts may be increasingly hard to find.

 

I would shop around for a PC361. Some online retailers have them for less than $1000. Granted, ebay prices on good K2000s are half that, but I wouldn't pay that. No sampling, but reportedly KB3 through a Vent is great, although the latest OS has a more than adequate Leslie emulation.

 

-John

[ITGITC]

 

I've got a K2000. It's ancient. In its time, the K2000 was a great instrument.

 

However, today there are many other options for getting great B3 sounds that you can find on the used market.

 

What's your budget?

 

If B3 sounds are your priority, I would consider a Hammond clone instead - something with drawbars.

 

Good luck!

 

Tom

 

[Tusker]

Does the K2000 hold up well as a live gig instrument?

 

After 20 years, who can tell. Buy modern if you value your gig.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I had a K2000VP - its Hammond emulation (I did not have the whole Sweetwater pack, but did have the patch that they released as a free demo) was not all that good. Designed in the early 1990's - many parts are unavailable except by using another K2000 for a parts source. One slider and the mod wheel.

 

If the one you are checking out only has the CD, you will also need a SCSI CD-ROM drive; not easy to find now. This is the very old 50-pin SCSI version 1. Also, all the programs you are going to use have to be loaded every time you power up.

 

The PC361 on closeout at the price they are selling for - MUCH better. KB3 emulation did not even start until the K2500, and has only recently gotten to the point that I sold my Nord Electro 3 and use the PC3 (or 361, or PC3X) for Hammond. Drawbars - there are nine sliders, aomewhat larger and further apart than drawbars, but they work. Close to 1,000 factory programs, and room to add many more. With what user patches I've used since 2008, mine still have 97% free memory.

 

[AnotherScott]

If the one you are checking out only has the CD, you will also need a SCSI CD-ROM drive; not easy to find now. This is the very old 50-pin SCSI version 1. Also, all the programs you are going to use have to be loaded every time you power up.

At least some (perhaps all?) K2000 models could have an internal hard drive installed... that would be much better than carting around an external CD-ROM drive.

 

Having owned one and then not been in the keyboard market for many years, I was surprised at how the ability to quickly load custom sounds from hard drive had disappeared from the market. Instruments like the Korg M3 and Roland Fantom something-or-other could only load their stored sample much more slowly (I suspect lowered from SCSI/IDE speed to USB 1.0 speed... way, way slower, at the same time files sizes started getting way, way bigger...)

[Synthoid]

The PC361 on closeout at the price they are selling for - MUCH better.

 

This.

 

Look around online--the PC361 is being blown out for under $1000.

[KingstonCrim]

Wow, lots of great thoughts already, everyone. Thanks.

 

Well, this particular K2000 DOES happen to also come with a CD-ROM drive. But I'm not thrilled if I'd have to re-load the sounds it every time I turn it on, as you suggested MoodyBluesKeys. I thought maybe the sounds could live in some sort of non-volatile RAM. Hmmm. Bummer.

 

Budget is really only around 400-500 right now. I can get this one for about $400, and I've heard it makes a GREAT master controller for my other rack mount modules. Yes, I know this thing is ANCIENT but for little money it might still be a cheap upgrade from what I'm playing with now. I currently get an okay "rock organ" sound I like from layering my K1000 with some rack-mount sounds, and running through the Vent. Still, I think I can get just a little closer to some classic B3 tones, which is my goal. If I could afford a full out clone I would do that (I'm not willing to sell the CS-80!!) I just want something that will give me some passable B3 sounds for a PT cover band. That's all.

[ProfD]

Budget is really only around 400-500 right now. I can get this one for about $400, and I've heard it makes a GREAT master controller for my other rack mount modules. Yes, I know this thing is ANCIENT but for little money it might still be a cheap upgrade from what I'm playing with now. I currently get an okay "rock organ" sound I like from layering my K1000 with some rack-mount sounds, and running through the Vent. Still, I think I can get just a little closer to some classic B3 tones, which is my goal. If I could afford a full out clone I would do that (I'm not willing to sell the CS-80!!) I just want something that will give me some passable B3 sounds for a PT cover band. That's all.

IMO, even at that amount and for your intended purpose, a used K2000 would still be a "waste" of money.

 

As mentioned, look for a used clonewheel which has MIDI controller capability or consider something new like the Casio XW-P1.

[Sven Golly]

I can get this one for about $400, and I've heard it makes a GREAT master controller for my other rack mount modules. Yes, I know this thing is ANCIENT but for little money it might still be a cheap upgrade from what I'm playing with now.

 

Until something on it fails, and you can't get parts for it, then it's an EXPENSIVE waste of money.

 

This, incidentally, coming from a fan of the Kurzweil PC3 that is the centerpiece of my live rig. Pass on the K2000, especially if it's a gigging board you need.

 

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Hard drives for K2000:

Some older operating systems (changed by two ICs) would only support a 1G HD. The last couple of OS (3.54 & 3.71) would support a single 2G HD partition. Internal HD also requires that the 2000 have the Fan kit installed (which should be installed anyhow if there is any RAM in it).

 

The power supply on the K2000 is rather marginel, and internal hard drives for it had to be low power demand. There was a list on the old K2 website, I think it is archived somewhere.

 

I do still have two external SCSI hard drives - one of which was used with my K2000, the other with the K2661 (which will handle up to 4 2G partitions). Finding a drive that will work is still possible, but not easy.

 

Even with the hard drive, the program samples must still be loaded on every power up cycle. The PRAM is the battery-backed RAM section, it does not store the samples - they are in RAM (the unit was capabgle of up to 64 meg of RAM).

 

I sold my K2000VP including one of the light duty ATA style cases for about $325 a couple of years ago.

 

I have owned eight Kurzweil boards, still have five of them. In spite of that, I still join the others posting who feel that a K2000 is presently a good investment; due to age, liklihood of failure, liklihood of repair difficulty; and that the Hammond sound of the K2000 Sweetwater patches is just plain not that good.

 

In the used field, the KB3 sounds on the PC2 Kurzweil are not as good as the PC3; but they are way ahead of the K2000 (or K2661). You might find a PC2 for $500 or $600. An Electro 2 Nord would also be better for the purpose. Hammond XK-1 would be better (although priced a bit higher).

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Hard drives for K2000:

Some older operating systems (changed by two ICs) would only support a 1G HD.

I think "only" 1 gb is plenty for a device with just 64 mb of RAM. ;-)

[Craig MacDonald]

Budget is really only around 400-500 right now. I can get this one for about $400, and I've heard it makes a GREAT master controller for my other rack mount modules. Yes, I know this thing is ANCIENT but for little money it might still be a cheap upgrade from what I'm playing with now. I currently get an okay "rock organ" sound I like from layering my K1000 with some rack-mount sounds, and running through the Vent. Still, I think I can get just a little closer to some classic B3 tones, which is my goal. If I could afford a full out clone I would do that (I'm not willing to sell the CS-80!!) I just want something that will give me some passable B3 sounds for a PT cover band. That's all.

 

A working K2000 is barely worth $200.. I sold mine about 4 years ago with CD drive and numerous samples for about $250. I included the sweetwater pocket-B3 CD that you reference, which I never liked much (although I'm pretty fussy about my B3 sounds), but it was cumbersome to use, and had no ability to adjust drawbar tones, short of organizing/arranging programs in some particular order that you could shift between.

 

Seriously, a lot of people are telling you to steer clear of the K2000 (especially at $400) you should listen! Be patient, and save your money for something better.. my humble opinion. If you like Kurzweil, and they're a great synth, just look for something used that has KB3 mode. You'll probably be much happier with that.

[AnotherScott]

As mentioned, look for a used clonewheel which has MIDI controller capability or consider something new like the Casio XW-P1.

I agree, if you have a $500 budget and are looking for decent drawbar-style organ plus rompler, the XW-P1 looks like a winner. It won't do everything the old Kurz will do (no aftertouch, no sample loading)... well, each will do some things the other won't... but if the P1 does what you want, it looks hard to beat, and actually gives you full live drawbar control which you won't get on the Kurz regardless of soft add-ons, as it doesn't have the 9 faders. The Kurz action will probably feel better, though.

[KingstonCrim]

Thanks for all the advice. You guys are awesome. I'm seriously re-thinking this whole thing now. Yeah this includes an SKB case, and 32 MB RAM, but I sure don't want to have to go setting up at the gig and have to start plugging SCSI cables and loading CD-ROM files every time I power up. Sheesh, that's ridiculous.

 

If I could find a nice clean used little Voce V5+ for around the same money I'd probably go for that. The one on eBay right now is coupled with the Spin 2 sim that I don't want or need. But this exactly is the kind of feedback I was looking for. If those Sweetwater samples were worthy, that'd be one thing but that's basically what I was looking to find was how really useful they are. Sounds like this is not much of a clone replacement. I may still go look at this since I made the appointment with the guy, but chances are I'll keep looking. Thanks again for all your input everyone.

[Delaware Dave]

I've always been a bit of a Kurzweil fan. I've got a well-worn K1000se here (that I've had pretty much since they came out), but it's starting to show a few signs of becoming unreliable.

 

For one of the PT bands I play with, I could really use some decent Hammond sounds. While I'm not a die-hard dedicated B3 purist, I do love the sound and was actually searching the local Craig's for a clone or a Voce or something to add to my setup when I came upon a used Kurz K2000 v3 with the "Sweetwater Pocket B-3 Library" on a CD-ROM.

 

I was thinking this might solve my aging k1000 problem plus give me fun some new Hammond sounds to work with (since I can't afford a Mojo...).

 

And I'd be running it through a Ventilator... so has anyone here ever used or heard this Sweetwater B-3 Library?

 

It says "Pocket B-3 contains over 75 files of classic Hammond B-3 sounds ranging in size from 28k to over 4 mb. There are over 40 different drawbar settings, including straight B-3 samples as well as luscious Chorus Vibrato samples, all fully programmed by the Sweetwater Soundware Development Facility for your K2000/K2vx/K2500."

 

Does the K2000 hold up well as a live gig instrument? I'm kinda pumped by what I've read about this axe so far and anxious to go see/hear it this week.

I cannot decifer what it is you are looking for. Is it strictly a B3 module or a replacement for the K1000? If it is the latter then I'd suggest the PC361 for about $1K. Running the PC361's KB3 organ through the Vent will get you there for the Hammond tone and also the PC361 could replace your aging K1000 nicely. If you are just looking for a B3 module, then for about $400-450 I'd go with a VOCE V5+. The hammond organ tone on the Voce is better than the PC3 and you already have the Vent. The Voce sounds sweet with the Vent.

[AnotherScott]

I agree with Delaware Dave's comments... the only reason I agreed with the suggestion of the XW-P1 was because of the $500 budget. If you had a $1000 budget, then it sounds like the PC361 would be ideal. At $500, the Casio would be as close as you could get to that, and still looks very nice...

[Delaware Dave]

I agree with Delaware Dave's comments... the only reason I agreed with the suggestion of the XW-P1 was because of the $500 budget. If you had a $1000 budget, then it sounds like the PC361 would be ideal. At $500, the Casio would be as close as you could get to that, and still looks very nice...

Scott, As I'm getting older I guess I'm getting lazier as well. How does the hammond tone on the XW-P1 sound? How would you compare it to say the PC361? Never thought about it but you might be right, for the $500 budget (which I missed reading, sorry about that) that might be a great alternative. I haven't heard any "samples" of the hammond tone to make a judgement. Also, while I'm asking, what's your leslie assessment between the two?

[KingstonCrim]

I cannot decifer what it is you are looking for. Is it strictly a B3 module or a replacement for the K1000? If it is the latter then I'd suggest the PC361 for about $1K. Running the PC361's KB3 organ through the Vent will get you there for the Hammond tone and also the PC361 could replace your aging K1000 nicely. If you are just looking for a B3 module, then for about $400-450 I'd go with a VOCE V5+. The hammond organ tone on the Voce is better than the PC3 and you already have the Vent. The Voce sounds sweet with the Vent.

 

Yeah, I can see how I wasn't entirely clear about that. I was originally just searching for a smaller-budget device, like maybe a Voce or the XM-2 rack module. Just wanted to add some easy Hammond sound without going to up a full-blown big-budget clonewheel. Would love it, but don't really NEED it and can't justify it for the uses I have for it.

 

So the search term I used was actually just "HAMMOND" and it brought up this random k2000 ad because it had the Sweetwater "Hammond" Library mentioned in it. So I start thinking maybe this could do double duty. Replace my aging 1000 and have extra Hammond sounds to boot. And it's cheap. And that's what got me looking. I've not kept up with all the various models over the years so I needed to get myself re-acquainted with the various toys again...

 

So, this PC361 sounds interesting. $1000 is not out of the budget for something that'll do it all like that. I'm going to start investigating this further. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

 

[AnotherScott]

How does the hammond tone on the XW-P1 sound?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaQZuuAaM3E

[Delaware Dave]

How does the hammond tone on the XW-P1 sound?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaQZuuAaM3E

 

Wow, you can really tell the difference between the internal leslie and the Vent. Thanks for that.

 

So, this PC361 sounds interesting. $1000 is not out of the budget for something that'll do it all like that. I'm going to start investigating this further. Thanks for the suggestions!

I think these videos will give you some perspective of the PC3:

 

PC3's Hammond tone and internal leslie as compared to B3/122:

 

a real Rhodes: to be used as a point of reference (start at the 3:40 mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7GiRvvqDqM

 

the PC3's Rhodes, same band, same song, different player (start at the :50 mark):

 

the broad (but not entire) PC3 palette:

 

You'll be hard pressed to find a better sounding keyboard for $1,000.

 

 

[KingstonCrim]

Thanks, DD for posting those links. I sat through that entire 24 minute PC3 palette demo and was mesmerized. Then from that page there was

playing the sounds live in context. That just about did me in. This may be the thing I was looking for all along. Hats off to the group here for helping me avoid a costly mistake. I can't believe this is selling for so cheap.

[Tusker]

Hats off to the group here for helping me avoid a costly mistake.

 

+1

 

It's a great community. Stick around. You'll find a lot of expertise on your PC3.

[Bill W]

Thanks, DD for posting those links. I sat through that entire 24 minute PC3 palette demo and was mesmerized. Then from that page there was

playing the sounds live in context. That just about did me in. This may be the thing I was looking for all along. Hats off to the group here for helping me avoid a costly mistake. I can't believe this is selling for so cheap.

 

Just to be clear...that "palette" demo does not include every sound in the PC3.

[KingstonCrim]

 

Just to be clear...that "palette" demo does not include every sound in the PC3.

 

Yeah, I could see that. It looked and sounded like a pretty amazing assortment alright. So much, that I'm now happy to report that I went ahead and ordered a PC361 just yesterday (Monday) morning, and it arrived today (Tuesday) already! It arrived so quick I didn't know to bring my bigger car to work today. So I had to leave it there (!!) and will bring it home tomorrow to try it out.

 

Thanks again to EVERYONE who chimed in! An abundance if good info around here. Considering I started out just looking for a $250-400 Voce and ended up with a whole new PC361 for not much more, I'd say it was a worthy upgrade.

 

 

[Analogaddict]

Re: Delaware Dave's EWF link;

 

 

Re: The PC3 as a pure synth;

 

 

and

 

[Synthoid]

It's great to see someone making both programs and setups for the PC3 series.

 

When I bought my K2661, I was told there were thousands of patches online to download. Well, it was more like a couple hundred, but anyway--I couldn't find many setups at all.

[Analogaddict]

True. The setup mode contains so many goodies, it's nice when someone shows it off.

[johnchop]

Considering I started out just looking for a $250-400 Voce and ended up with a whole new PC361 for not much more, I'd say it was a worthy upgrade.

 

Good deal! Be sure to hop over to the sonikmatter forums for more goodies and assistance. And make sure you get the latest OS installed.

[Synthoid]

Considering I started out just looking for a $250-400 Voce and ended up with a whole new PC361 for not much more, I'd say it was a worthy upgrade.

 

Good deal! Be sure to hop over to the sonikmatter forums for more goodies and assistance.

 

Make sure you read the manual first before visiting Sonikmatter. Otherwise they will eat you alive over there.