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Oh Dear.....Yamaha....CP....


mikecorbett

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So I just received my Yamaha CP33 from fellow forumite skinny. He shipped very fast, packed her up really well and it got here in perfect shape. I take it down to my studio, put it on a stand, run two cables into my mixer in the inputs beside my CP300 .... Oh jeepers lads. While the CP300 piano sounds wonderful as always, the CP33 is like a recording of it. No vibe, no connection, Im bitterly dissapointed. I obviously didnt research it correctly, but so MANY posts on the internet seem to intimate that the piano sounds are identical in both the CP33 and 300. Well, through studio speakers there are definetly not, through headphones, like,completely Different.

 

So, yeah. I just wanted a light weight CP300 with no speakers. Which leads me to my next thought. Do you think that taking out the internal speakers from the CP300 would cut the weight by much? I have no idea?

 

No offense to Skinny, he did a perfect job. I did a bit more research tonight, and sure enough bigger samples are used for the CP300 according to the infamous BadMister on one of the Yamaha forums.

 

Any suggestions people? Ive been nearly a year looking for a stage piano that will suit my needs. the only one I haven't managed to get is the S90ES, but I didn't like the S90XS. I can demo a CP5 tomorrow...maybe Ill take it home for a day and test it aganst the CP300... but Ive never been blown away by the CP50 piano when Ive tried, and I believe its the same.

 

 

I really want to hack all the heavy stuff out of my CP300 and just make it like 15 to 20 pounds lighter...

 

Exhausted, spend, saddened, peckish, Im off to bed (after a snack)

 

Mike

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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Hi Mike,

 

When I sold my P200 and got the CP33, I felt much like you do now.

I hated the CP33 and thought it was a lemon. Then before I knew it, I really liked it. I've done a few CDs with it and it's fooled people who should know better.

 

So my advice is to stick with it. Make sure you use the mono piano in the right situation. I'm going through a new board situation (NS2) but I have to admit it's not as painful.

 

Let me know how you get on.

 

Darren

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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A BBC engineer recording the CP33 I had at the time remarked that it was the best-sounding digital piano he'd ever heard but that was in stereo. I never like the mono piano - it sounded like it had a very compressed dynamic range compared to the default stereo sample. I've never done an A-B comparison with the 300, but the latter sounded better to me. I believe it has superior D-A convertors to the 33, as well as the reduced polyphony etc.

 

Do you run the CP300's speakers? If so, it may be that the lack of that extra component in the perceived sound is making a difference for you and adding to that feeling of a "recording".

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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I have a similar story.

On album I did with the CP33 was mixed at Yamaha studios in Japan.

Some years later I met the engineer who is also plays piano and owns a Yamaha CFIII - and he couldn't believe what he was hearing was a digital!

 

Darren

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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IMHO, digital pianos are so good at what they do today it's virtually impossible to distinguish them from the real thing - in the case of a recorded performance with other instruments in play. You can still tell the difference if it's solo piano.
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Any suggestions people? Ive been nearly a year looking for a stage piano that will suit my needs. the only one I haven't managed to get is the S90ES, but I didn't like the S90XS.

The high quality extra piano in the S90XS (compared to the Motif series) is an S6, the one in the S90ES is an S700, so they are different, and I have read that some people do prefer the one in the ES, so if you do manage to come across one, it could be worth checking out.

 

I can demo a CP5 tomorrow...maybe Ill take it home for a day and test it aganst the CP300... but Ive never been blown away by the CP50 piano when Ive tried, and I believe its the same.

I think you're right about their being the same. However the CP50 action is a heavier action similar to the CP300, the CP5 has a different action that is much lighter... so if the CP300 has the kind of action you prefer, you might be disappointed that way as well.

 

I'm not a fan of heavy actions, but I think the Kawai MP10 is a nice sounding heavy action board. Unfortunately, it weighs about as much as a CP300!

 

Have you checked out the P155? It's not the same as the CP33... some people prefer one, some people prefer the other.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If this were the guitar forum, how many players would be buying a Telecaster and wishing it sounded like a Stratocaster? They're both Fenders, aren't they???

 

Mike, you're going through buyer's remorse. Stay the course.

 

 

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Rod

victoria bc

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...Unless you don't mind carrying a lot of extra weight to your gigs...

 

I schlepp a CP300 as part of my gig rig. I try not to think of it as "carrying alot of extra weight". Instead I think of it as "multitasking" - I'm handling my gig AND getting my weight training in simultaneously! As long as I keep thinking of it in that manner - I have me one of them there "win/win" situations! :D

The SpaceNorman :freak:
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Just as a point of clarification... the CP300 and CP33 are both 3-layer samples, the P155 is 4-layer. But whether the P155 sounds better than the CP300 or CP33 is a matter of opinion.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Hows the Piano on the CP5 Dave compared to others out there?

 

To answer your question from another thread-For me the CP5 is the second best sounding and feeling acoustic piano substitution I've found. The first would be the CP1.. :)

 

However it's a totally different animal then the CP300-also much more refined sounding and playing then the CP50.. Whether that lighter NW action on the CP5 along with the newest SCM Yamaha technology will appeal to you is another story.

 

On the weight end of things, you're losing 16 lbs. with the CP5 from the CP300. I think the 300 is superior for more Rock/Country/Blues type contexts. The CP5 is another world, sonically speaking, for music requiring more finesse and generally where the piano is more exposed--like jazz, classical and certain types of rock/pop/r&b. I think the biggest thing is your application, taste in sound and preference in the action.

 

For me the CP5 has become a bit too much to move around on a regular basis. I have it for sale but unless I can get pretty much what I want for it, I'll probably hold on to it.

 

Have you checked out the P155?

+1

 

The main piano sound is 4-layer, as opposed to the CP33's 3-layer sound, so it may get you closer to the CP300.

 

The 155 is an improvement over the 33 to my ears-yet still falls short of the 300. I've been playing at a jam session where my friend leaves his 155 set up. The sound through the house monitors, EV 250s if I remember, has been just ok at best. A few weeks ago I was subbing so I brought in my speakers and the sound was night and day difference. Still not a CP5 but pretty believable, especially out front when I was listening to some other guys play.

 

Personally, if you can, I'd hold off the 155. I believe yamaha is overdue for a replacement for it at NAMM here in about 5 weeks. Of course it wouldn't be available till months after that so that doesn't help you right now....

 

Have you checked out the Nord Piano ?

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

 

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Removing the speakers will save only the speaker weight - which is probably somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds (closer to 5) each. You probably won't be able to greatly reduce the weight of the CP-300.

 

My personal suggestion would be to keep the CP-300 for use as a studio and recording instrument; and carry the CP-33 to gigs. I'm assuming you play in a band instead of solo - once the gitars get to wailin', and the drums to flailin', neither you nor your audience will be able to hear the difference. :)

 

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

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Jim

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Do you run the CP300's speakers? If so, it may be that the lack of that extra component in the perceived sound is making a difference for you and adding to that feeling of a "recording".

 

Absolutely not. I have them running into identical channels, with identical cables and bypassed eq on my Mackie Onyx. Its night and day the difference. With, without reverb, touch settings, flat eq on the onboard cp300 eq.

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I dont know if Im hardcore enough to schlep the 300 to gigs, though it is ideal for me. My load out involves stairs with tight corners. I should probably hold out till NAMM, just in case. My other thought was to try to trade in my 300 and 33 for a NS2, portable and the pianos are sounding pretty killer to me compared to the NS1 I used to own... Im going to the music store this morning...

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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IMHO, digital pianos are so good at what they do today it's virtually impossible to distinguish them from the real thing - in the case of a recorded performance with other instruments in play. You can still tell the difference if it's solo piano.

 

Not for me.

 

Mike, I second that you are going through a bit of buyer's remorse. I have been there specifically with the sound of a piano on several occasions. When we are SO used to one sound it's very very tough to come to terms with another one. The CP300 IS a superior board. But the CP33 is no dud. Like Dave Ferris said, it might require a bit more finesse, you might have to refine your expectations a little bit, but if you run it in stereo and you spend some time with it, I think you'll grow to be happy with it.

 

I remember when I first got my amazing 6'10" Kawai five years ago and was so 'shocked' and unused to the new sound that for a week I was convinced I had made a HUGE mistake and kept walking back over to my mom's 1950's Acrosonic spinet because it 'sounded better'. Obviously I was crazy and just needed some time to get used to the new sound.

 

...But if you CAN'T get used to it, you can resell the board and get one of Yamaha's newer offerings. Don't take the speakers out of the CP300. You'd be jacking up resale value, making it way ugly, and not saving much weight.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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If this were the guitar forum, how many players would be buying a Telecaster and wishing it sounded like a Stratocaster? They're both Fenders, aren't they???

 

Mike, you're going through buyer's remorse. Stay the course.

 

 

Actually, this is more subtle than that. Think the difference between an Eric Clapton Signature Strat ("vintage" single-coil pups) and an Adrian Smith Signature Strat (high-output active humbuckers)

 

"But they're both Strats - I don't get it..." :freak:

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...And as an aside, plenty of pros use the CP33 live and they sound swell. I used it on many a jazz gig until the great theft of June, and through the Accugrooves it sounded damn sweet.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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IMHO, digital pianos are so good at what they do today it's virtually impossible to distinguish them from the real thing - in the case of a recorded performance with other instruments in play. You can still tell the difference if it's solo piano.

 

Not for me.

 

Mike, I second that you are going through a bit of buyer's remorse. I have been there specifically with the sound of a piano on several occasions. When we are SO used to one sound it's very very tough to come to terms with another one. The CP300 IS a superior board. But the CP33 is no dud. Like Dave Ferris said, it might require a bit more finesse, you might have to refine your expectations a little bit, but if you run it in stereo and you spend some time with it, I think you'll grow to be happy with it.

 

I remember when I first got my amazing 6'10" Kawai five years ago and was so 'shocked' and unused to the new sound that for a week I was convinced I had made a HUGE mistake and kept walking back over to my mom's 1950's Acrosonic spinet because it 'sounded better'. Obviously I was crazy and just needed some time to get used to the new sound.

 

...But if you CAN'T get used to it, you can resell the board and get one of Yamaha's newer offerings. Don't take the speakers out of the CP300. You'd be jacking up resale value, making it way ugly, and not saving much weight.

 

Yeah, but this isnt just crazy, there is a huge difference in quality of piano playing experience, trust me! Its not that Im so used to the CP300, its a simple A/B. On one board I have satisfaction, immediatly. On the other I dont.

 

Also I note that the volume hardly changes at all between the 12 noon position and the 5 o clock full position on the CP33. On the CP300 there is a huge amount of gain in that range. Is it possible I have a dud and there is something wrong with the DA stage? Cause they dont even sound close...

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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Reset the board.

 

First thing I did, and it was a huge improvement, so obviously hood diving had occured. But all my comments are based on the sound I am getting even after reseting. Can one of you who owns a CP33 confirm that there is only a very small amount of volume change between half and full volume?? Like maybe 3 to 6 DB at most

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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Fill your cp300 with helium. Are you one of these people that thinks if you do not spend/waste a lot of money on gear you can't sound good? Think Herbie Hancock would sound OK on a cp33? You will not be A-B ing them at gigs, just get used to the cp33. It is a great sounding board. I practice on one; I love it. If you think there is something wrong with it, get it checked out. Mine has good vol increase all the way to 11. You are over-analyzing this thing - relax, let it work itself out. Go play some scales [on the cp33] when you find yourself obsessing over this sound trivia. It will pass. :poke:
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
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Fill your cp300 with helium. You will not be A-B ing them at gigs, just get used to the cp33. It is a great sounding board. You are over-analyzing this thing - relax, let it work itself out. Go play some scales [on the cp33] when you find yourself obsessing over this sound trivia. It will pass.

 

Yeah, unless there is actually something worng with the board. Do CP33s sound boxy "out of the box"? Does the volume control have little effect after half way? I smellith a rat....

 

me? obsess over piano sound....? never!

 

Seriously though, its the difference between being able to play on a board and wanting to.

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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Just get it checked out.

 

Yeah, I could take it to a Yamaha service centre and wait six weeks. Or someone who also owns the CP33 could confirm whether or not there is supposed to be headroom after 12 o clock...it would be a start

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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I feel like I should chime in here...

 

Mike, first, I'm sorry that it's not what you expected it to be. I know how it is to buy a piece of gear, anticipate it's arrival, then be underwhelmed.

 

I've never played a CP300 (well, I shouldn't say never, I may have messed around on one for a few minutes in a music store, but nothing that I remember specifically), so I don't know how the 33 should compare to it.

 

I don't recall ever going in and altering any settings, so I don't know why a reset made a difference in sound.

 

I never needed to turn it past about 1 o'clock, that was always plenty of volume for my gigs - not sure about the gain increase between that and full.

 

I was always happy with the sound, I know it's not state-of-the-art, but it got the job done for me, and I always ran mono live. I sometimes record our live gigs, and I was always impressed with how it sounded out front - it cut nicely without sounding harsh - it sounded good for what I used it for - a good piano sound in a rock/pop cover band. (WAAAAAY better than the Alesis QS8.2 I used this past weekend - eeeewwww...) but that's a subject for my next thread...

 

Maybe this should all be a PM, but I feel compelled to defend myself, I hope nobody thinks I sold Mike a lemon - My CP33 was extremely reliable (never had a single problem with it), I took good care of it, I was the only one who ever played it, and when it wasn't being played, it was in it's case.

 

Mike, I wish you luck. I hope you get your situation figured out! You seem to be more particular about what you want in a DP (and that's absolutely fine!) than me, and maybe the CP33 isn't your board. For me, it was great. I miss it already... I'm trying to find a board to replace it with - something I've never said is WHY I sold the CP33 to begin with - I need a more versatile 'board with a good piano sound, within a certain budget, and I'm realizing how difficult it is to find what I want.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stuff and things.
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