Kurzweil PC3LE7: In-depth report

[Aidan]

THE PROPOSITION

 

For most of the work I do (solo piano gigs), my Nord is ideal. But it does offer piano and electro-mech sounds only, it's monotimbral and virtually useless as a controller.

 

Having got rid of my CP5, I knew there were some jobs which would need more, in particular a regular slot with my friend's band, where I'm expected to provide strings and brass, as well as left hand bass.

 

I also had on the immediate horizon an audition for a Journey/Toto tribute band. I knew the songs would involve some fairly complex splits, layers and mid-song changes.

 

I had hoped to simply use my Hammond XK3 to drive the Motif XS Rack for these sounds but after painstakingly putting together the first couple of patches, I became aware of an inherent weakness of the set-up - i.e. that making volume adjustments in individual parts was a royal pain.

 

Experience has taught me that balances in splits and layers that sound fine in the studio can be right out over a PA and the thought of tweaking all this while trying to play at the same time brought me out in a cold sweat.

 

It convinced me that I had to ditch the rack and go back to something I could easily tweak on the fly, right in front of me.

 

After mulling it over for a bit (hmm, Motif XS/XF keyboard, MOX6, Korg M3, Korg M50?) I eventually settled on the Kurzweil PC3LE7.

 

I was originally looking at the 76-note PC3 but these seem all but discontinued now, pending the arrival of the "K" version. So LE it was - I figured that halving the polyphony and restrictions on FX chains (basically the big differences now that the LE's new OS has opened up VAST) would be acceptable compromises, and I could save a bit of money.

 

Some principal reasons for choosing the Kurz:

 

* I love its orchestral sounds, which are still head and shoulders above the hardware competition.

 

* Decent Hammond emulation in KB3, which would allow me to leave the XK3 at home in non-critical situations.

 

* Patch remain when switching between programs and set-ups.

 

FIRST IMPRESSIONS

 

* Seems well built and pretty solid for a "budget" board. No acres of particle board and the plastics are high quality. Pads are not as cheap-feeling as I feared. Internal PSU.

 

* The keybed feels cheaper and more plasticky than I'd hoped, but the semi-weighting does make it just about acceptable to play straightforward pop piano parts on it and it is about the most acceptable compromise for everything else.

 

* Some fantastic sounds in there, especially the orchestral instruments.

 

* APs and EPs both emphatically some way behind the curve.

 

* Although the interface looks dated and clunky, it is in fact fairly straightforward to navigate around and the soft key progressions are logical.

 

THE GIG

 

Fairplay is a straight-ahead covers band and the requirements from the keyboard player are mostly piano, organ, strings or brass, all with LHB.

 

I was quickly and easily able to set these up, with a few variations, and assign knobs to control the relative volumes of each component part.

 

I then discovered the pleasures of the "Quick Access" mode and set up a single list where I could easily choose the setup needed by one press on the numeric keypad instead of frantically scrolling through patches at the end of each song. Bliss!

 

At this point, I decided the APs were borderline acceptable and so decided to just take the Kurz to the gig, a wedding in a large marquee.

 

Organs, strings, EPs and their accompanying bass all sounded good. I quickly realised I had made the bass a little too "hot" in each set-up and quickly dialled it down in each one using the controller knob, saving as I went along.

 

Concocting the setups, I'd had some qualms about the pop brass sounds but having layered a few together into an ensemble, I was again impressed by how good and quite natural they sounded - not at all like your usual rompler fare. They shone even in quite exposed parts, such as James Brown's I Feel Good.

 

The APs were having a harder time of it, though. I'd initially chosen "Grand Evans" for the piano component of my setups but it was clear early on that it wasn't cutting through the mix, so I changed to "Power Pop Piano", which helped but now sounded a little thin.

 

It also didn't help that the APs appear to have a lower gain than some of the other sounds. I rather wished I'd brought the Nord, which is obviously clearly superior for both APs and EPs.

 

Overall, though, I was pretty impressed with the Kurz here. It was really easy to use and its reputation for having sounds which (while sounding unspectacular in the showroom) sit really well in a band mix, is well deserved.

 

THE AUDITION

 

I had tried out for this band about six months earlier using the CP5 and a Korg X50 kindly loaned by our mutual friend JPScoey.

 

On that occasion, I was just pipped to the post but as luck would have it, the guy who beat me to the job has decided to finally get round to doing a degree, leaving them again in need of a keys player.

 

The Toto songs especially require some fairly complex timbral setups and progressions. As an example, here's my notes for Africa.

 

* Intro/verse/outro: split - LH softish polysynth, RH - two-layer marimba, second layer detuned by a fourth.

* Chorus: lush strings

* Instrumental - back to polysynth in LH, two-layer flute in RH, second layer detuned by a fourth

* For second half of instrumental, add also two-layer marimba in RH, again a fourth apart.

 

I was able to set these up quickly and intuitively.

 

It was then that I remembered seeing a YouTube demo of the PC3 where someone was moving between sounds using a pedal. As luck would have it, the shop I bought the PC3LE7 from had chucked an extra pedal into the deal - would I be able to figure out how to set this up?

 

Hell, yes! "SW2" was hastily assigned to "Data Inc" on all the relevant sounds. Now I could put together a Quick Access list for each song, following the structure of the song, so all I had to do was step through each patch in turn. Really sweet!

 

On another song (Separate Ways), which basically used just two setups, I was able to tweak the pedal assignments to switch back and forth between them.

 

The audition was held last night in the usual hot and sweaty rehearsal room complex with a distinctly middling PA (Peavey), the Nord and Kurzweil both running mono (waves to Kanker) into the mixer.

 

Despite the inauspicious amplification, both instruments nevertheless sounded great, and I stepped confidently and triumphantly through my Kurzweil setups. Four songs in, they offered me the job.

 

Sure, that also had a lot to do with a week or so's intensive shedding (I can now play the rundown on Home of the Brave in my sleep!) but the ease with which I was able to make the sounds I needed on the Kurz released a lot of time I could have spent endlessly fiddling with a lot of other instruments, while the re-assurance that I had the appropriate sounds under my foot allowed me to concentrate on the job in hand at the audition.

 

WRAP-UP

 

The Kurz is like a Swiss army knife keyboard. While I'll still want to play dedicated piano and organ boards for those core sounds, the PC3LE7 is more than capable of filling in the gaps in between and on occasions, subbing for those other machines.

 

I still hope I can find a useable acoustic piano solution inside the Kurz. Having got the Journey2Toto job, I'm now faced with the prospect of fortnightly rehearsals and if I can get away with taking a single board to those, I'll do it in a shot.

 

I suspect EQ may hold the key here. Unfortunately, I suspect that EQing stuff on the regular PC3 series is easier because the FX are fully editable, whereas the LE series just gives you a bunch of presets.

 

The punier FX also means that although patch remain works well most of the time on the PC3LE series, you do hear occasional "bumps" which I suspect you don't get on its bigger brother.

 

With the above two points in mind, I may upgrade to the PC3K 76-note when it becomes available. The ability to load other samples is very tempting too.

 

For now, though, the PC3LE7 is definitely a keeper.

[Analogaddict]

If you set your nord piano to Local "off", patch nord midi out -> kurz midi in, kurz midi in -> nord midi in, you can route the nord thru the PC3 midi filters and use your nord multitimbrally! This way you can play splits of nord/kurz sounds on both boards. The PC3 is fantastic for midi, it literally turns any 'dumb' midi controller into a multitimbral synth.

[VegasGT3]

Aidan,

There may be better presets in the mix for Rock. BLUES PIANO, ROCK PIANO and #4 HOROWITZ GRAND especially worked for me. Make sure you record the mix, play it back, you will be surprised. Also, Woodstock Clunker and Beaten Rhodes worked as well as my Nord. Good Luck with the new gig! Playing Hold the Line was always a workout!

[DanS]

I had hoped to simply use my Hammond XK3 to drive the Motif XS Rack for these sounds but after painstakingly putting together the first couple of patches, I became aware of an inherent weakness of the set-up - i.e. that making volume adjustments in individual parts was a royal pain.

 

Too bad you didn't have the XK3c, the volume knobs on the right side of the board would have taken care of this for you.

Thanks for the review anyway, glad it's working out so far.

[Ian Benhamou]

Always to hear of people joining the Kurz clan.

 

For your piano woes, may I suggest #4 Horowitz Grand. This is my go to piano sound for anything pop/rock and even solo piano. It's got enough brightness to cut through the mix and good thunderous lows to sound big and full.

 

Agree with the brass. Everyone bitches about them at first. But layer them in a setup, get the right amount of reverb on them and play with the velocity curves and you'll find they sound pretty damn good, considering.

 

 

[Mike Warren]

The APs were having a harder time of it, though. I'd initially chosen "Grand Evans" for the piano component of my setups but it was clear early on that it wasn't cutting through the mix, so I changed to "Power Pop Piano", which helped but now sounded a little thin.

 

Aidan, you may want to give my Close Grand program a try: http://forum.sonikmatter.com/forums/index.php/topic/46329-close-grand/

 

I'm working on a new version at the moment where I have done things quite differently. It has a darker tone when played pianissimo, uses slightly fewer resources, and has slider control over bass, treble, decay, release, velocity, mech. noises, symp. resonance, and reverb. I should be finished tweaking it in a week or two.

 

[Dana.]

FWIW, Jonathan Cain is using the Triple Strike these days. He might be mixing it with his red Fazioli, though. That might not work for you.

[David Loving]

thank you for the good review. I am a Kurx-lover, myself. I like the part about the appropriate sounds under foot - right where they belong. I am confident you can find a piano patch that works - you can EQ it to cut better, too.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

No trouble at all cutting through (even with a loud lead guitarist) with the Blues Piano patch on my PC3. The place where the PC3 or PC3K would give you the most is in the KB3 - where the extra effects units available make a real difference in the Leslie emulation. Most of the time, I don't bother to carry my Electro 3 any more, just use the PC3. Keeps getting better with every OS upgrade.

 

As usual, the best sounding patches for solo work don't cut it in the band - but there are patches that do.

BTWm the Blues Piano patch is also mono from the get-go.

[Adan]

now that the LE's new OS has opened up VAST

 

Could you expand on this? (I'm being lazy, rather than reading upon the new OS myself)

 

Only Brits would think to practice fortnightly!

 

edit: never mind, I looked it up. Must say, OS 2.0 makes the LE a much more valuable piece of kit.

[Michelle ggurl]

I too am a Kurz fan and glad to hear whenever someone discovers that what these boards do works for them.

 

I currently play a Kurz PC2 (semiweighted). As many of you know, I've been on the hunt for a more "piano-y" board that doesn't weigh a ton, so that I can play THAT on my jazz trio gigs (admittedly most of the gigs I do these days) instead. But I've been experiencing arm problems trying to play these weighted boards (weird since I don't have problems playing REAL pianos!) so I'm thinking I might just stick with my PC2 after all!

 

Unless anyone who has experience with both the PC2 and PC3 can convince me that migrating to the newer board is worth the expense ...

 

[Chris Link]

I've had the PC3LE7 for about a year and don't ask nearly as much out of it as Aidan does, but am overall very pleased with it.

 

+1 for the Horowitz grand AP. It just seems to be the best overall for my needs.

 

The Quick access is a lifesaver for my annual foray into "2nd keyboard-land" for our medical society show. Some of the switches during and between songs are instantaneous and taking a few minutes to save all the sounds needed for the show saves seconds I sometimes don't have. Just one click for each change makes for a much more relaxed and professional show. The footswitch is an intriguing idea as well if I had even more on-the-fly changes to do.

 

The Quick access is also nice to have set up for different bands: one for R&B/blues/rock, one for the now-defunct reggae project and one for the C&W band currently playing.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I have both a PC2 and PC3 - personal opinion is that it is worth the expense. The PC2 was my gigging board several years ago, it has both ROMs added. The PC3 is now my giging board.

 

Nice things: Both are the same physical size, so the case for the PC2 also exactly fits the PC3.

 

Patches - the PC3 has more detail in its patches. It already comes with all the ROMs that could be added to the PC2, plus the string ROM, which has a whole 128 differing string patches in many combinations.

 

Operating System is much more like the K series - a lot deeper editing can be done, the effects are well beyond what a K2600 could do.

 

Song Mode - a built in sequencer sinilar to the K series, can be directly used, or can import MIDI from my DAW.

 

Quick Access banks - I can set up QA banks with a mixture of programs and setups to give me really easy one-step switching for such things as set lists, theatrical productsions, etc.

Loading and saving - xD card may not be the very most modern (note that the PC3K does use USB sticks for loading; but it is a sight improved over the SYSEX to MIDI in that the PC2 requires. Easy to back up the configuration, carry it with me in travels, and a backline PC3 can immediately be loaded with my own patches, sequences, etc. I use this feature to keep my PC3 and PC3X loaded the same way to minimize any confusion.

 

The KB3 (with the new OS) is quite adequate now for my use with the band, I don't even usually carry the Electro 3 any more.

 

If so much better, why do I still have the PC2? Well, first off, it is paid for and still works. Second, I leave it at my church gig, so I've always got a rig setup and ready there. Third, I still like the sounds (I did consider buying a PC361 to leave there, but I usually carry the Nord if I want Hammond, the KB3 on the PC2 is not all that great (better than the 2661, but not enough better).

 

As far as the action is concerned, my PC2 and PC3 feel very similar, just enough weight so be able to play pinistically (but not as good as my PC3X), but still light enough for the Hammond/EPs?orchestral/etc that I also use.

 

About the only thing that has not been improved is the weight - it is similar to the weight of the PC2.

 

[David Loving]

I'm thinking I might just stick with my PC2 after all!

Unless anyone who has experience with both the PC2 and PC3 can convince me that migrating to the newer board is worth the expense ...

Kurzweil is my absolute favorite board. I am interested in your experiences, too. I am gigging with a PC2 with one band. I think that I can run the KB3 through a ventilator and piano and rhodes with the vent's 'bypass' and I can use just that one board. I have a classic keys module in it and I really do not feel the need to go with a pc3LE7, as much as I'd like one. Do the Kurzweil-philes have a different take?

 

[Ian Benhamou]

I'm thinking I might just stick with my PC2 after all!

Unless anyone who has experience with both the PC2 and PC3 can convince me that migrating to the newer board is worth the expense ...

 

Do the Kurzweil-philes have a different take?

 

Depends a lot on your needs.

 

In Geekgirl's case I'd say if your mostly doing piano trio gigs, forget the Kurz and get a more dedicated DP (RD-700, Nord Piano, CP series, etc.). The PC3's pianos are improved over the PC2 but the raw samples are the same. What's improved is 32 layers per patch instead of 4, so more detailed programming. Also studio quality effects added so you get top notch reverbs, resonance, compressors, etc. Aside from that your still dealing with Triple Strike pianos.

 

If you want non-alising VA oscillators with full VAST virtual modular synthesis editing, studio quality FX (equivalent of 2 KSP8's), 32 layers per patch, an incredible string bank, much improved KB3 mode with much better leslie sims, and 9 fully assignable sliders.

 

Everyone's needs are different but I can't do a gig without my PC3 for it's sounds and Setups incredibly powerful midi control.

[Aidan]

Thanks everyone for your input and helpful suggestions. I'll keep you posted as to how it works out!

[reidmc]

APs - APs on these are weak. First thing I do on any PC3LE AP patch is take the reverb off via the assignable controller. I like using Grand Piano 440 for a lot of stuff but Horowitz Grand does cut a little better.

 

EPs - I really like Stevie's Rhodes for most stuff. XFaderBelltoneRhds is nice too. For Wurlis - Austin City Limits is full with big vibrato. . .Stage Mix Wurly is thinned out and might cut a little better. For basic guitar rock n roll (think Rolling Stones) I like the 3 Dog Pianet.

 

Love to hear what other Kurz players are using. Organs??

[Analogaddict]

I use basically what reidmc listed. When I play my PC3X I don't change much, on the PC3 I usually work a little with the velocity, I usually set a minimum value of 15-20 for AP:s since that responds more like a weighted board to my playing. The new os 2 Leslies are very nice, but since they take a lot of processing power and I already have most of my setups programmed for VB3, I stick to using a V-machine. I have all the commercial sound banks, and I can recommend checking them out. Espescially "Vortex" is great, it really shows the PC3 potential for VA stuff. Combined with the onboard fx, the PC3 can wipe the floor with many a VA.

[RedLeo]

Hi Aidan

 

Glad you got the Journey2Toto gig - they seem to have some pretty big plans for it. I was invited to audition for them last year, but eventually declined as they were insisting I read from their charts - yeah right - and the guy I was in contact with felt just a little "off" to me. Let us know how it all progresses for you,

 

Best of luck,

 

Redleo

[Michelle ggurl]

Thanks for the detailed response, Ian and MoodyBluesKeys. I had been in PM conversation with Jim (MoodyBLues) previously about the action, so I knew it would be similar.

 

It turns out I played the Roland FP4 I bought recently again yesterday, and this time I did not experience a flare-up of my chronic pain condition ... I'm thinking that board may work for the piano gigs after all. I think what this means is I will hold onto my PC2 for a while, but at some point will sell the PC2 and get a PC3 if I start doing "Swiss-Army-knife" gigs again, where I need a highly functional performance board. I just love the way Kurzweil lays it all out and think the sounds overall are pretty spectacular for a hardware board; I will just upgrade at that time. I like to keep things simple, no computer/Muse/software for now, and just think Kurz makes great solutions for this.

 

Since the PC2/3 semi action is quite kind to me, I don't have much of a beef with it, other than for piano work I was finding it less than ideal and why I was searching for a more piano-type action in the first place. The only thing I'd love to see (besides a new piano sample) is the weight of the total form factor to come down just a tad; my comfort level with hefting things is really at about 36-38 pounds; those extra few in the PC2 (I weighed it and got 41lbs) make a difference. I wouldn't want the weight reduction to come at the expense of that action, though. I recently had a chance to try an Axiom Pro which I'm told has the same action as the SP4-7, and I really prefer the PC's action and keys better.

 

So Daviel, maybe this obliquely answers your question too, at least in terms of my experiences. I've played piano-trio gigs on the PC2 for over a year now ... not the ideal board but definitely workable. I feel the pianos in the FP4 have MORE of a dynamic range than the ones in the PC2, but all boards allow you to tweak at least the action response, if not the dynamic range itself (at least the Kurz does that, but when I worked with that parameter it didn't seem to improve things for me, probably because of the semi-weighted action. That function might have a more dramatic yet controllable result on the PC_x weighteds).

[Dana.]

Geekgurl, I think it's interesting that you find the PC2 action "quite kind." I haven't played one in many years but I've played the PC3 and the PC3LE7 and don't like the springiness of their actions AT ALL. In fact, I find it takes more force to hold down a sustained chord on those keys than many fully weighted digital piano actions I've tried, including the Privias.

[David Loving]

I am sort of "lost generation kurzweil". I bought a PC1X instead of a PC2x because I liked its action better. It is a practice piano now - too heavy to lug around. I like the pc2 action, too. I haven't caught up with the new models, I guess because I like the ones I have so much. Has anyone tried an SP4-7? It looks quite gig-worthy to me.

[Michelle ggurl]

DBon, then I wonder if the action is different in the version 3 models ... one of the hallmarks of the PC2 (at least mine) is that to me it's not at all springy ... it's almost spongy, but because it's lightweight returns fast enough for many things (I won't say ALL things; it isn't, I play much better on an acoustic especially for quickly repeating notes). Maybe the action on my PC2 is mellower with its age, but I don't remember it ever being springy. Or at least not anything that requires much force to push or keep pressed down.

 

MoodyBlues Jim, can you comment on the springiness specifically in comparison? Because now I'm curious.

[Aidan]

Interesting sidebar. As it happens, because I have a piano gig on Saturday, yesterday I didn't bother unpacking the Nord but instead just set up the Kurzweil to try out some of the various APs suggested earlier in this thread. It was the only instrument I played yesterday.

 

This morning, I woke up with a athritic-style pain in my right index finger. It waned this as I got up and then took the dog for a walk, but reading Dana's remarks did make me wonder. I've traditionally not got on too well with non or semi-weighted actions.

 

Previously, I've put this down to me unconsciously holding my hand in tension in order to play accurately but now I do wonder whether springing may be a factor, too. The one non-weighted action which has never bothered me at all is the XK3's, which is very subtly spring.

 

Michelle, I do agree with Dana that the PC3LE7 action is very springy, although nowhere near as stiff feeling as the SP4-7, which I briefly tried at a music show a few months back. It's OK for short bursts, but I can't imagine ever wanting to play piano on such a keybed for any extended period.

 

For that reason, for reasons of sound, and because I've worked out that the physical gymnastics required for this set really won't sit well on one board, I'm resigned to taking the Nord out to rehearsals as well. It's only one more piece to haul out, in the final analysis.

[Dana.]

DBon, then I wonder if the action is different in the version 3 models ... one of the hallmarks of the PC2 (at least mine) is that to me it's not at all springy ... it's almost spongy, but because it's lightweight returns fast enough for many things (I won't say ALL things; it isn't, I play much better on an acoustic especially for quickly repeating notes). Maybe the action on my PC2 is mellower with its age, but I don't remember it ever being springy. Or at least not anything that requires much force to push or keep pressed down.

The actions could very well be different. Again, I haven't played a PC2 in many years, so my issue with the springiness is directed toward the PC3 and PC3LE7.

[Dana.]

Previously, I've put this down to me unconsciously holding my hand in tension in order to play accurately but now I do wonder whether springing may be a factor, too.

Fighting an action that has a stiff spring not only bothers my hands, it hinders my ability to play well. For example, the Akai MPK series (25, 49, 61) is horrendous in this regard.

[David Loving]

How about the synth action on the PC3LE6 ? Same problem, or an OK action?

 

edit: I looked it up and the 6 and the & 7 have the same fatar TP8 keys

[TWB121234]

Previously, I've put this down to me unconsciously holding my hand in tension in order to play accurately but now I do wonder whether springing may be a factor, too.

Fighting an action that has a stiff spring not only bothers my hands, it hinders my ability to play well. For example, the Akai MPK series (25, 49, 61) is horrendous in this regard.

 

I couldn't agree more about the Akai MPK action. I had to sell my MPK 25, very difficult to play.

[Dana.]

It's too bad because it's built well and seems to offer good functionality. But I'll be damned if I could press down any white keys at the back of the key. The keys are also shorter than normal, which I don't like.

[David Loving]

I just spent an hour or so experimenting with the pc2-KB3 and ventilator. Because of the effects on/off cancelling the chorus-vibrato (I didn't try the percussion) it does not work as well - or at all - as I thought. I'll use its KB3 in a pinch, but I'll leave the vent at home when I do. Oh, well...another good reason to upgrade!