Charlotte, NC - I need an XK3 or similar

[Jim Alfredson]

Thanks, but I know we can't afford a real B3 rental. I'll see what they want for the VK7 but it's probably more than I'm getting paid.

 

In other news, big props to Mike Martin from Casio for securing a PX3 loaner for me for our gig at Blind Willies in Atlanta on Friday!!! You saved my butt, Mike!

 

And thanks to my friend and Atlanta Braves organist (and killer jazz organist) Matthew Kaminski for loaning his XK3 and Leslie 21 system to me for that gig. I'm lucky to have good friends like Mike and Matthew.

 

The rest of you suck.

 

 

Just kidding. Thanks for all the suggestions. At least I know I have VB3 if all else fails.

[davinwv]

Are you not able to bring your Novation controller? You could use the sliders to control drawbars with MIDI Learn and invert the controller polarity.

[Jim Alfredson]

No I couldn't bring it. Mainly because I don't have a case for it and I found out yesterday the backline specs. My next purchase will be a good case for the Novation, for sure. Though I want to wait for the SK1 to be released and buy a case for that instead.

[Jim Alfredson]

Bump one last time. We start at 10:30pm.

[Jim Alfredson]

Well, that was a rough one.

 

The two keyboards were a Korg SP100 for the bottom piano. Luckily the club had a Roland RD100. I opted for that because the Korg just felt horrible. The top keyboard was a Yamaha W7. I had the Yamaha MIDI'd to my laptop running VB3, but of course had no way of changing the drawbars (or anything else). I had a volume pedal but it didn't react like a real Hammond expression pedal... it totally cut out all the sound at the bottom of it's throw. I tried to change that in VB3, but no luck.

 

For a keyboard amp, I had to play through a Fender Deluxe. Yeah. They had a Mackie monitor but no way to get the 1/4" cables into it (it only had one XLR input and nobody had any adapters). So of course everything sounded like poop. But I knew it sounded better out front due to the DI boxes.

 

The good news is that VB3 sounds really good live. The bad news is that it kept hanging notes, something it did not due when I tested it out at home for 2 hours. I don't know why but I realized that if I closed the GUI in Reaper, it played fine. Maybe it has something to do with the plug-in still being 32bit only running in a 64bit program/OS. I don't know. I really hope Guido updates it to true 64bit native format soon. Otherwise I may be forced to go to NI or something else.

 

About halfway through the show, the great Bob Margolin came up to sit in. At that point I was tired of using the same drawbar settings (since I couldn't even have the GUI up to change settings via the touchpad on the laptop) and decided to close Reaper and VB3, swap the MIDI cable to the RD100, and load up the stand-alone version of Pianoteq. I played piano and Wurli the rest of the night. And it sounded KILLER. The Wurli in Pianoteq is totally bad-ass live. I used the YC5 piano model. That redeemed the night for me.

 

I really hope to get an SK1 soon. That would totally save the day on these types of gigs. It's really a drag that we keyboardists are at the mercy of backline so much. Guitarists always have their axe. So do bassists. Even drummers can carry their cymbals, kick pedal, and snare. But we just have to make due with whatever happens to be at the club. The laptop is nice, but I want it as a last resort. The SK1 would be ideal. MIDI it to a weighted keyboard for piano and voila.

[AnotherScott]

The good news is that VB3 sounds really good live. The bad news is that it kept hanging notes, something it did not due when I tested it out at home for 2 hours

That's the kind of story that makes people scared to use computers at gigs!

 

It's really a drag that we keyboardists are at the mercy of backline so much. Guitarists always have their axe. So do bassists. Even drummers can carry their cymbals, kick pedal, and snare. But we just have to make due with whatever happens to be at the club.

That's one of the nice things about organ modules like the Hammond XM-2 (with XMc-2), or Roland VK-8M, or Voce V5+ with a Ventilator, these are good solutions for that problem. Pair it with some other module for Piano/EP (GEM RP-X, an old Roland P-330 or Fantom XR perhaps with an SRX card, Kurzweil ME-1 or PC2R, Yamaha Motif Rack XS... or maybe something running on a V-Machine...), you'd have a good carry-on traveling rig.

[Steve Force]

Yeah, Jimmy--why don't you get a XM-2 module?

[davinwv]

The good news is that VB3 sounds really good live. The bad news is that it kept hanging notes, something it did not due when I tested it out at home for 2 hours. I don't know why but I realized that if I closed the GUI in Reaper, it played fine. Maybe it has something to do with the plug-in still being 32bit only running in a 64bit program/OS. I don't know. I really hope Guido updates it to true 64bit native format soon. Otherwise I may be forced to go to NI or something else.

 

You should look into a proper live host like forte or Cantabile. Cantabile Lite is free to use, and it is much more lean and mean than a DAW like Reaper. You should notice a significant difference in latency as well, as Cantabile is very efficient.

 

I've used VB3 live hosted in Cantabile Performer on tons of gigs (along with Garritan Steinway, Scarbee Mark I, A200, and Clavinet), and I've never had any stuck notes.

 

Forte is also a very good live host. I have both, but prefer Cantabile.

 

BTW, I am on Win7 64-bit, but use 32-bit Cantabile.

 

[Joe Muscara]

Yeah, Jimmy--why don't you get a XM-2 module?

Yeah, Jimmy--why don't you get a Nord Electro 2 rack?

[Mike Martin]

The good news is that VB3 sounds really good live. The bad news is that it kept hanging notes, something it did not due when I tested it out at home for 2 hours. I don't know why but I realized that if I closed the GUI in Reaper, it played fine. Maybe it has something to do with the plug-in still being 32bit only running in a 64bit program/OS. I don't know. I really hope Guido updates it to true 64bit native format soon. Otherwise I may be forced to go to NI or something else.

 

I've never had an issue running VB3 live. Last year, I even resurrected a rather old laptop that a neighbor was throwing in the trash and have used it for VB3 live. I was using it with Steinberg's old V-stack as a host and it worked like an absolute charm. Of course I'm just a hack when it comes to playing organ, but I've always loved the way VB3 sounds both live and in the studio.

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I'm sorry that Charlotte wasn't closer to home, I could have carried my Electro 3 for you to use (I couldn't have stayed awake long enough to get back home from the Charlotte gig). It really seems weird that a city the size of Charlotte doesn't have better backline availability.

 

I do use a notebook with VB-3, an old notebook (Pentium 3 1G proc) - there is a little free host program named VSThost that works very well for running a single VST like VB-3 - the program does not take much in resources at all.

 

I sometimes use it at church MIDIed to the PC2 that I leave there. The church is putting in a new audio system, and going to run some CAT 5 to the stage, so I will probably wind up leaving that computer there all the time (real nice on a stormy day to be able to just walk in and turn stuff on with no loadin).

 

[Dana.]

Yeah, Jimmy--why don't you get a Nord Electro 2 rack?

Seems to work fine for that kanker fella.

[Skinny]

Yeah, Jimmy--why don't you get a XM-2 module?

 

Actually, I think he used to. His FS post is still in the classifieds, but it doesn't say it ever sold, :idk

[Jim Alfredson]

I sold the XM2 to buy the laptop. It sounded nice, but I needed to run it through the Ventilator. It was still a lot of haul around for one sound. I always have a laptop with me on the road. The thinking is that I can consolidate, just carry the laptop, and have both organ AND piano / electric piano with me at all times. I'm close to that goal. Just need to work out the bugs. I do wish somebody made a small MIDI drawbar unit. I may have to make one myself.

 

I will check out Cantible, thanks!

 

[AnotherScott]

I sold the XM2 to buy the laptop. It sounded nice, but I needed to run it through the Ventilator. It was still a lot of haul around for one sound.

It's kind of funny to think of an XM2, XMc-2, and Ventilator as a lot to haul around for one sound, considering how many of us (maybe including you!) used to haul around a 300 pound Hammond and a full size Leslie for that one sound. We didn't take it on planes, though.

 

Since it sounds like you still have the Ventilator, it might be worth keeping your eyes open for a Voce V5. That would be smaller, lighter, easier to place, and less to wire up than an XM2/XMc2 combo. Zero boot time! (And as it happens, I may be selling one soon...)

 

I do wish somebody made a small MIDI drawbar unit. I may have to make one myself.

I think the Voce could serve double duty as a set of drawbars for your laptop-based system, while also providing self-contained "backup" if you had any glitches with the laptop.

[Dana.]

Scott,

 

Have you considered changing your username to AnotherSuggestion? I can only imagine what it's like when you try to order ice cream. So many flavors to choose from, which option is best?!

[Jim Alfredson]

Definitely keep me in mind for the Voce. Although the prices they are fetching on eBay are pretty high these days.

 

Again the SK1 is the life-saver. All the sounds I need, a great feeling keyboard, drawbars, and 15lbs.

[Steve Force]

Yeah, Jimmy--why don't you get a XM-2 module?

 

Actually, I think he used to. His FS post is still in the classifieds, but it doesn't say it ever sold, :idk

 

He sold it--I was yanking his chain.

[AnotherScott]

So many flavors to choose from, which option is best?!

 

Glad to help. See here:

 

http://www.flushingicecream.com/popdrink_belgian%20chocolate%20shake.htm

[Dana.]

But have you considered this?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/dining/08shake.html

[davinwv]

I do wish somebody made a small MIDI drawbar unit. I may have to make one myself.

 

Check out the new version of the Ocean Beach drawbar controller (www.oceanbeachdigital.com). Even though these are programmed to work with the Nords OOTB, they also seem to be programmable via sysex (I have no idea how to do this).

 

I was contemplating asking Ocean Beach if they would pre-program a set to control VB3 prior to shipping. Then, I could plug these into the MIDI port on my MBox 3, and, together with my 61-key USB controller, I'd have a slimmed down Hammond rig for when I don't feel like, or can't, bring the Hamichord.

[AnotherScott]

But have you considered this?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/dining/08shake.html

 

Ooh. Not for me, but I bet my gf will love that. We both like chocolate, but unlike me, she likes bourbon and nutella... though I doubt she's ever had them together...

 

 

[mate stubb]

Check out the new version of the Ocean Beach drawbar controller (www.oceanbeachdigital.com). Even though these are programmed to work with the Nords OOTB, they also seem to be programmable via sysex (I have no idea how to do this).

 

I was contemplating asking Ocean Beach if they would pre-program a set to control VB3 prior to shipping.

 

This is entirely unnecessary. VB-3 has a dead simple midi learn feature, just hook up the drawbars and train it.

[davinwv]

Check out the new version of the Ocean Beach drawbar controller (www.oceanbeachdigital.com). Even though these are programmed to work with the Nords OOTB, they also seem to be programmable via sysex (I have no idea how to do this).

 

I was contemplating asking Ocean Beach if they would pre-program a set to control VB3 prior to shipping.

 

This is entirely unnecessary. VB-3 has a dead simple midi learn feature, just hook up the drawbars and train it.

 

It is necessary for me. I have a Hamichord MC-3 that I use most of the time with VB3. My VB3.ini file contains a custom MIDI map for the Hamichord. Thus, any MIDI learning I would do for the DB-1 would overwrite my mappings for the Hamichord, and I do not want to work with swapping out VB3.ini files from the VB3 folder based on what control surface I will use.

 

I would like the DB-1 to have the same MIDI CCs as the B preset on the Upper Manual of the Hamichord.

 

Sysex programming is necessary so that I can use the DB-1 in any host. I could get the DB-1 working with MIDI Learn on the Session level in Cantabile, but then it would only work in that host.

[mate stubb]

I see. If you don't find it possible to get the drawbar unit reprogrammed, you could always keep 2 .ini files and swap them as necessary.

[Jim Alfredson]

Tonight's gig was so much better! My friend and fellow Hammond endorsee Matthew Kaminski brought his XK3 and Leslie 21 system for me to play. And a local music shop (Dirt Cheep Music in Smyrna, GA) loaned me a PX-3 thanks to a call from our fellow Casio rep, Mike Martin (you rock, Mike!)

 

The XK3 sounded great; Matthew has my tonewheel set loaded on it and has spent considerable time tweaking his Leslie 2101. I might have to steal his settings. I really like how he had it set up.

 

The PX-3 was a lot of fun to play. I just got mine last week and only used it on one gig so far (with organissimo, so not a ton of playing time on it) and haven't had a chance to really dig into it. Tonight was a great test of how it sat within the band. I have to say, the mono piano sound cuts a lot better in the upper range than anything out of the Yamaha Motif ES rack. The EPs in the PX-3 are much better than the PX-330. The Rhodes in particular is much improved and sounded nice, though not as... I guess "lifelike" as the Motif. The Wurli is not that great, but certainly useable. I need to figure out how to put tremolo on it; I'm pretty sure the DSP in the PX-3 can do that. It would help immensely. But all in all, I didn't feel like my playing suffered due to the EPs at all. A little tweaking on my part is needed.

 

Then again, I was spoiled by using Pianoteq the other night. The Wurli in that is just stupid good.

 

All this just has me thinking about my (hopefully) soon to be upgraded rig consisting of the SK1 & the PX-3. Whether I'll use the SK1's piano or the PX-3's... I don't know yet, but it's good to have options!

[retrokeys]

If you have some good leslie 21 tweaks, I'd sure be interested to hear what they are. Glad this gig went better than the other. I keep waiting for you guys to get up to Northeast Ohio, so I have an excuse for a night out.

[Jim Alfredson]

Are you anywhere near Mansfield or Toledo? We'll be in both places next week.

[AnotherScott]

The EPs in the PX-3 are much better than the PX-330. The Rhodes in particular is much improved and sounded nice, though not as... I guess "lifelike" as the Motif. The Wurli is not that great, but certainly useable.

Yes, the "Elec Piano Pure" on the PX3 is far better than anything on the PX330. And the Wurli still needs help (the Wurli on the old Casio PX-310 was much better).

 

But you bring up an issue about sounds being "lifelike" -- I think that you may be talking about the same phenomenon I describe when playing pianos or EPs on the new Casios (PX3/330) vs the old (PX310/500) that I've had. Apart from whether you prefer this sound or that, there was something about the older models that felt like playing an instrument, and something about the new models that feels like I'm playing a "recording" of an instrument. I don't know if it's the sounds themselves, the action, the connection between the action and the triggering of the sounds, or what... Does this describe what you're talking about as well?

[Dave Pierce]

I do wish somebody made a small MIDI drawbar unit. I may have to make one myself.

 

Check out the new version of the Ocean Beach drawbar controller (www.oceanbeachdigital.com). Even though these are programmed to work with the Nords OOTB, they also seem to be programmable via sysex (I have no idea how to do this).

 

I was contemplating asking Ocean Beach if they would pre-program a set to control VB3 prior to shipping. Then, I could plug these into the MIDI port on my MBox 3, and, together with my 61-key USB controller, I'd have a slimmed down Hammond rig for when I don't feel like, or can't, bring the Hamichord.

 

Yeah, I own one for my Electro, and it's awesome. He definitely designed it to be programmable. Obviously since I'm using it with an Electro I haven't had to dink with that. But you can figure it out, I'm sure.

 

The guy who owns the company is a keyboard player who just wanted some damn drawbars. He was very helpful to me in email. (I got one of the first units, which had a very minor bug that he fixed no charge.) I'm sure if you need advice on programming it, he would be happy to help.

 

--Dave