Numa Organ vs Hammond XK-1 Shootout

[SpikeKeys]

For one week I was the proud owner of both a Numa Organ and the Hammond XK-1. So I could do a true apples-to-apples comparison. Both instruments are meant to sound like a Hammond B3. To my mind the XK-1 won the battle, but each had advantages. I ran both into the same amplifier, and they were right next to each other. I adjusted the reverb and volume so that they were as close sounding as possible. All comparisons were done with the drawbars in exactly the same positions.

 

Here's where the Numa organ was better:

1. About half the weight of the XK-1

2. Separately adjustable chorus and vibrato above and below a split point

4. The lower manual can be transposed up an octave with 1 button push.

3. Preset sounds from a bank of opposite-colored keys

4. Leslie switch similar to that on a B3

 

Here's where the XK-1 was better:

1. The Leslie speed is shown by a light. In the Numa you can't tell whether the Leslie speed is fast or slow, if you use a foot switch, until you hear it.

2. The drawbar positions are shown in an LED screen, not so for the Numa.

3. This is subjective, but I found the sound more appealing, both warmer and brighter. The Leslie sounds were similar for the 2 organs. The percussion was brighter and more distinct for the XK-1.

4. Many aspects of the sound can be tweaked on the XK-1. The Numa's sounds are uneditable, except for what's on the front panel.

5. The switches are larger and easier to manipulate on the XK-1.

6. There are many more MIDI possibilities with the XK-1.

7. Purely subjective: the XK-1 is prettier.

 

 

The feel of the keyboards is similar and excellent for each. Both organs produce a wonderful imitation of a B3, as close as I've ever heard.

[mate stubb]

What amp were you playing them thru?

[Dana.]

Both organs produce a wonderful imitation of a B3, as close as I've ever heard.

Have you heard VB3?

[Pale]

You can transpose up one octave with a single button push on xk1 too! There is an option to assign several functions to the 'extra sounds' button I'm the top right corner of the xk1. That's how I keep it, since I do splits from time to time and its handy to have left hand transposed on the fly.

[vanderSchoot]

Hi Spikekeys, I know taste is very subjective, but I really wonder if you had a similar Numa organ than the one I own.

 

The chorus/vibrato scanner simulation is several leaps better than those found in any Hammond clone even compared to a new B3 mk11 which my brother has at home.

 

I cannot believe that you think the leslie simulations are on par, because to my ears the Numa is clearly better too.

 

And did you compare only the third drawbar out, to compare this flute kinda sound in the upper octaves ?.

 

No clone sounds so warm and pleasing as the Numa (to my ears).

 

I still cannot believe how you prefer a xk1 sound wise, I honestly do.

But that is also a good thing, so don't take my comments to personally......

 

[AnotherScott]

From what I understand, although you're right that the XK1 has much more MIDI controller functionality, I think the Numa can use the reverse keys as regular keys, so can be a 73-key controller for an external module instead of 61, no?

 

I think I would add one more XK1 advantage... as unimpressive as they are, its extra sounds (i.e. EP/clav) are better than nothing if you're gigging with it as you're only board. For background ensemble playing, at least you can occasionally provide some other color that isn't an organ. (Though you'd be much better off taking advantage of the MIDI control functions and velcro'ing a little Roland JV-1010 or something to the top.)

 

Based on the pics, it looks like your point about not being able to tell the leslie speed on the Numa until you play is also true of not being able to tell what the percussion settings are...?

 

Since both models fall into the category of as close to a B3 as you've heard, I wonder what you would think of an XK3-c, which everyone seems to agree sounds better than the XK1. I've never had a chance to play that one, myself.

[MusicaL]

The percussion settings are displayed on the Numa front panel. There are 4 LED's that address on/off, slow/fast, soft/normal and 2nd/3rd. While I can't comment on how the Numa tone compares to the Xk-1 (since my experience with the Xk-1 is limited), I can tell you that the Numa sim is excellent, and IMO, makes the Vent unnecessary. From what I've read, that's not the case for the XK-1.

 

And yes, the Numa's preset keys can be used to control an external module.

 

aL

[MusicaL]

I also have VB3 on my Mac, and in many ways the Numa and VB3 sound a lot alike. I would give the nod to the Numa on the leslie sim, even though it's not tweakable. It just sounds great out of the box.

 

aL

[SpikeKeys]

A Roland 350C.

[SpikeKeys]

I didn't know that! Thanks for the tip.

[SpikeKeys]

I don't think the extra sounds of the XK-1 are really an advantage. They are awful.

I've never played an XK-3, but a Hammond salesman told me that the sound generators are identical. Not that I necessarily believe him. I partly chose the XK-1 for its lower weight.

[SpikeKeys]

So in my opinion does the XK-1's Leslie sim.

[AnotherScott]

I've never played an XK-3, but a Hammond salesman told me that the sound generators are identical. Not that I necessarily believe him. I partly chose the XK-1 for its lower weight.

The XK-3 is older, and by all accounts I've seen, not as good as the XK-1 OR the XK-3c. The XK-3c is supposed to sound better than the XK-1... at least in terms of having a better leslie simulation, a real tube, and still more tweakability, even if the underlying engines are indeed the same (which I don't know either way).

[JMcS]

I've never played an XK-3, but a Hammond salesman told me that the sound generators are identical. Not that I necessarily believe him. I partly chose the XK-1 for its lower weight.

 

The XK-1 and XK-3 have the same sound engine but the XK-1 has newer and more powerful DSP capabilities so the digital Leslie and C/V are improved. The XK-3c has a new sound engine and even more powerful and improved DSP capabilities.

[SpikeKeys]

Have any of you ever run an XK-1 through a Neo Ventilator? Do you think that would be an improvement over the onboard Leslie simulator of the XK-1?

[JMcS]

Have any of you ever run an XK-1 through a Neo Ventilator? Do you think that would be an improvement over the onboard Leslie simulator of the XK-1?

 

Jim A ran his XM-2 through a Ventilator comparing it to the XM-2's digital Leslie and his 122.

 

[mate stubb]

A Roland 350C.

 

Now how did I know that...

 

You should really be evaluating keyboard sounds thru a decent amp.

[SpikeKeys]

A Roland 350C.

 

Now how did I know that...

 

You should really be evaluating keyboard sounds thru a decent amp.

 

I noticed your chainsaw comment. I'm afraid that's what I used for the shootout. In performance I also run my stereo sounds thru our PA system, which is awesome.

[bobster]

Music*aL: When you say that the Numa's preset keys can be used to control an external module, do you mean program changes or actual note on/off data? (or both)

[MusicaL]

The manual seems to indicate it's only note on off, but, I am no midi guru.

[SpikeKeys]

Even if you were a MIDI guru, the Numa manual has very little to say about MIDI.

[LX88]

I concur with Vander Schoot and others...that the Numa chorus vibrato and leslie sim are in league of their own among single manual clones available at this time.

 

There are those who like the Hammond Suzuki sound and have become used to it being somewhat of a clone standard (for them). I think that it does well for a thick and rich type of thing. I had one for a month and thought that it sounded great through a real leslie, as long as I didn't use the chorus vibrato. I liked the keys too.

 

But chorus vibrato is the first "go to" sound on a Hammond for me , with no spin. With the Numa , I never find myself wishing that the chorus was improved.

 

Did you listen to the "slow down" effect that the Numa sim does when going from fast to slow , particularly from the slow rotor? This is a true work of art from Elvio. I have never heard THIS from a clone.

 

Plus I don't want brighter percussion than the Numa already has, thank you.

 

The weight difference is a godsend. As are the key click levels by the way. The original XK3's used to drive me nuts when using headphones.

 

I am going to have to go Italian on this shootout. And it looks like the Numa sound engine is going to be update-able, at least that was the word from Elvio.

 

I am doing shootouts right now running the Numa through my B-3 preamp's RCA jack and 122 leslie and guess what - the Numa holds its own. It sounds like a 22 pound single manual "chop" of the real thing.

[MusicaL]

 

Did you listen to the "slow down" effect that the Numa sim does when going from fast to slow , particularly from the slow rotor? This is a true work of art from Elvio. I have never heard THIS from a clone.

 

What are you referring to here? What do you hear from the rotors? What I hear is from the horns. It's a sort of mild but quite audible pitch shift.

 

aL

 

[LX88]

I am refering to the sound of the low rotor going from fast to slow. It's very gradual...and it is not the horn I am refering to. The horn on a leslie stops when you go from fast to slow.

[LX88]

The original shootout was done in mono? About the only thing on the Numa that sounds half was decent in mono is the leslie sim bypass. Not sure about the XK-1 but I assume that it's the same.

[MusicaL]

I don't want to have a debate about mono versus stereo, but FWIW, I am running my Numa mono into my QSC K10, and loving it!! Stereo is nice, but, IMO, unnecessary in a live setting.

 

aL

[JMcS]

I am refering to the sound of the low rotor going from fast to slow. It's very gradual...and it is not the horn I am refering to. The horn on a leslie stops when you go from fast to slow.

 

Only if you unplug the horn's slow motor or have a technical issue.

[MusicaL]

I assumed he meant that the horn decelerates quickly . . .

 

I am refering to the sound of the low rotor going from fast to slow. It's very gradual...and it is not the horn I am refering to. The horn on a leslie stops when you go from fast to slow.

 

Only if you unplug the horn's slow motor or have a technical issue.

[AnotherScott]

The original shootout was done in mono? About the only thing on the Numa that sounds half was decent in mono is the leslie sim bypass. Not sure about the XK-1 but I assume that it's the same.

Since an awful lot of PA systems (and keyboard rigs, for that matter) are run mono, an organ/leslie sim that didn't sound decent in mono would be a major problem. You really find the Numa that bad?

[kanker.]

That's one of the great things about having the tweakability of the XK-3c. I've optimized the sim for mono, and it sounds amazing. Without that kind of control, you can really run into problems with a Leslie sim going mono.