Stevie Wonder Brass Sections on a keyboard?

[Waynester]

Hi Guys

 

were rehearsing tomorrow for 7 long hours

amongst our tracks were doing are 2 Stevie Wonder songs

I WISH and SUPERSTITION

to the best of my ability i have nailed the clav parts on Superstition

(even though you need 2 keys players using the same sound to nail it!!! arrgghhhhhh, thanks Stevie! lol)

also learnt the rhodes parts on I WISH, its only when the brass parts come in for each song that im a bit lost as to try and get as close to the real brass parts

especially when it comes in at 1.08 and 2.24 on SUPERSTITION and also on I WISH at 3.00

 

Any ideas how to replicate this on my Fantom X8 or Motif ES7?

i think some of these brass parts are harmony sections?

 

 

[wmp]

Sorry, I'm no help. But I did want to take this opportunity to mention that I don't do keyboard horns. Especially when I'm the only keyboard player on tunes where there are already two or three keyboard parts going on. I'm so spoiled that I won't play I Wish without a real horn section and a singer who actually was a nappy headed little boy. A fun moment last month was playing Superstition in the original key with two keyboard players slapping clav and real horns.

 

Again, sorry for that. I'm sure somebody with a clue will come along to help you out shortly.

 

[motet2]

The band I'm in is covering "Superstition" as well and I am playing the horn parts on a Hammond XK-3c, the clav part is being played on our rhythm guitar's Strat. I recommend listening to the Stevie Ray Vaughn version of "Superstition" to hear the horn part played on organ.

[harmonizer]

.....to the best of my ability i have nailed the clav parts on Superstition......

 

Have you talked to your bass player yet about the key in which you will play Superstition? When we covered it, our bass player told us to move it up half a step from the original, so that those low quarter notes could be played by the bass on the low open E string. Playing it in the original key would require that he play almost an octave higher, which he did not think would sound as good. Since our lead singer is a woman with an alto voice, moving it up half a step was not a problem. I believe the bass part on the original was played by SW on some kind of electronic keyboard.

[burningbusch]

I would give the Sforzando Brass on the Yamaha a shot. They come on with a sharp attack (which is what you want) but because you have movement in the dynamics they sound less fake to me than the static brass patches.

 

Busch.

[harmonizer]

I have a Roland XV-5050, which may have similar "capabilities" to the Fantom X8 in terms of its built in patches for trumpet, sax, and trombone (and combinations of them). When I looked at the Patch list document for the Fantom X8, while their descriptions are not exactly the same as for my XV-5050, there is a familiarity to it. The best horn sounds for XV and Fantom keyboards might still be found on one of the SRX expansion cards, so I would not expect too much from what you have built-in.

 

I have spent a fair amount of time messing with these on my XV, where the most usable sounds are those for Trombone, and for the high Trumpet notes. Sax parts seem less usable, except for the very low bari sax notes, which are surprisingly good.

 

I agree with wmp's comment that trying to make horn sounds with a synth will not necessarily produce good results. I am a sax player, so on the rare occasions when I use synth-produced horn sounds, I fire off trumpet+trombone sounds via my keyboard or MIDI footpedals while playing a note on my (real) sax. Mixing my sax with a high note on trumpet can work fairly well.

 

On "I Wish" you might try using a B3-like organ sound for the three notes of the horns during the chorus, and then add a single high trumpet note on top. You should be able to set up a performance so the top note you finger is in a part range so that your top finger also fires off an appropriate trumpet note. Make sure whatever trumpet patch you choose has no vibrato.

 

Here are what I believe are the main horn parts during the chorus of "I Wish":

 

Bb Ab Bb !Ab

Gb Eb Gb !Eb

Db C Db !C

 

The notes preceded by the ! are the ones that come in a 1/16

before the beat, which creates the funky rhythm.

Then you repeat these 4 notes.

I have left out the 3 eighth notes at the end.

 

When we have covered Superstition, I just play the sax part on my sax alone, without playing anything on the keyboard (I'm not good enough on keys to play this, even if was not playing the sax then). The bass player also doubles me when playing the syncopated faster phrase (the one that gets repeated multiple times). I believe our "real" keyboard player also doubled what the sax was playing on his keyboard, using a clav part.

 

Also, the same as with Motet2, on Superstition we had our lead guitar player pluck the more conventional of the two clav parts, with the really syncopated other clav part played by our "real" keyboard player.

 

I hope you have a lead singer with a high voice.

[Waynester]

Hi guys

 

thanks for all the replies, im the person singing all the songs! lol

 

we perform these tracks in the original key which Stevie wrote them in, im due to do some recording soon, so will show you all my FEEBLE attempts at the brass, lol

 

meanwhile, i might purchase a Brass SRX Expansion Board for my X8 - which one is it exactly?

 

thanks

[mate stubb]

Keyboard brass almost always comes off as pathetic. Spice it up any way you can with one or more of the following techniques:

 

- add at least 1 real horn

- mix in some analog synth brass to support the rompler brass

- use modelled brass ala Yamaha PLG board

- use a breath controller

- free up your left hand to add subtle pitch bend fall offs

- program a bit of random pitch per note, so it is not perfectly in tune

[DanL]

I use the sfortzando brass sound on my S90ES and double it with the clav line on Superstition. For I wish, I used the stab brass that does velocity triggered drop offs. It's not as good as a rea horn section but it gets the point across. I typically shy away from using synth horns but on these tunes the parts are accents and not so bad if played with the right articulation.

[FunkKeysStuff]

Something I've considered doing for this very occasion, but haven't done yet: sampling the actual horn tracks from the "Superstition" multitrack that was floating around teh interwebz a while back. Maybe mapping the samples for different parts to different octaves. For the moment it's a moot point because the only board I could play them from would be my NE3, which I use for clav, but maybe someday...

[Waynester]

OH YEAH!!

 

i forgot about them Superstition studio tracks floating about, i think i have them somewhere... i might sample them on to my Motif ES

 

 

[Waynester]

Does anyone know WHAT notes to play on Superstition on the brass section that starts at 1.09 ??

im sat here racking my brains on WHAT note(s) to play with the left hand and also WHAT notes on the right hand

listened to Stevie Ray Vaughns version as well, loving it!

but STILL cant work out what exactly to play to make it sound as accurate as i can, have created an awesome Brass patch mixed with a bit or organ, but not sounding right WITHOUT the correct chords, Grrrrrrrrrrrr

if anyone plays this song, can you let me know whats going on? lol

[Waynester]

ha ha ha ha

 

found this!!

 

Stevie Wonder, you cheeky monkey!! lol

 

6 CLAV PARTS ON THIS SONG!!

 

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/3484-stevie-wonder-s-superstition-clavinet-parts-revealed-.html

 

 

[FunkKeysStuff]

Well, yes and no. There were six clav tracks (eight if you count the "echo tracks"), but only two actual parts. Each part was recorded to multiple tracks, with different combinations of amps/direct out/whatever, and panned to different spots.

 

I've come up with a part that's a reasonable approximation of both clav parts together, but it's a finger twister for the left hand. It would even be theoretically possible to play most of the "combined" part and the horn line simultaneously, but that's getting into serious "more trouble than it's worth" territory.

[BluesKeys]

I built a 4 part layer on my Motif 6 years ago and probably could not do it again witout a lot of research.