Morality in the music Biz re/noize

[JohnHarvey]

Tiger Woods....so what?

Bill Clinton.....so what?

The world is full of douche bags.

I love Jerry Lee Lewis but the man married his 13 year old cousin. What makes that OK? Nothing.

Somehow artists get away with degenerate behavior just beacause they are ARTISTS.

When you are a politician...sports guy...actor..and actors get away with more in that grouping...They really dont touch the soul the way that muscians do...and artists.

Van Gough can cut off his ear and people still love his art...why...because he touches something in people with his art and deep down we all know that we are that screwed in the head too.

Musicians get the least flack because they move people in ways that cannot be explained. It is accepted in our society that people who create are somehow internally tortured....and I guess that is true to a point....we all have our demons...BUT some of us have an AXE TO GRIND...that makes us long lasting..and then some of us are just fabulous disasters and burn the candle at both ends. Is it right that artists get away with their decadence.....NO....but then again getting drunk and pissing on the Alamo never really hurt anyone either. Though Ozzy did hurt some people later...but that is a deeper subject.

The world as it is.....IS a weird place...societies differ in every country....and personal misbehavior will always happen..WE ARE NOT PERFECT!!!

I guess everyone does what they got to do....I am not God so I do not judge...I just enjoy the tunes...and know that I am in the right TRIBE...the MUSIC TRIBE...because the same thing moves us even if we dont agree.

Dennis Wilson was a mess...but I can always put on any Beach Boys album or Pacific Ocean Blue...and be taken away to a better place...when the album is over I go back to my life and realize that I just listened to some of the greatest music ever and then I can deal with my job and family better and I can also write some music of my own....and people listen...I may not have a million fans on You Tube..but the ones I do have are enough...and they accept my art and me for what its worth. Go to channel SydbarF and check it out if you are so inclined........Rock On...

John Harvey.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Edited/deleted

[The Geoff]

Looks like badly hidden spam to me.

 

http://blog.thoughtpick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/spam.jpg

 

G.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Looks like badly hidden spam to me.

 

Spam? Hidden? Where? 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[Larryz]

Welcome aboard JohnHarvey...I love old Jerry Lee Lewis and don't think Tiger Woods was an artist, but more of a sports legend hero (if you consider golf a sport) and have always wondered a little about Little Richard...I don't think our evil ways makes us better artists or song writers or x-presidents...

[picker]

Hey John, you related to Paul?

[Eric Iverson]

I get a little tired of the hero worship - most of us here are ADULTS, after all - then people discover that their idol has feet of clay and are then disappointed and angry.

But if you don't put people up on unrealistic pedestals in the first place, you avoid the problem! Not that I don't admire people who have worked hard to develop their talent and rise to the top of their profession, but that doesn't make them ROLE MODELS.

[desertbluesman]

Tiger Woods....so what?

Bill Clinton.....so what?

The world is full of douche bags.

I love Jerry Lee Lewis but the man married his 13 year old cousin. What makes that OK? Nothing.

Somehow artists get away with degenerate behavior just beacause they are ARTISTS.

 

I don't really care about the morality of the rich or famous or my neighbors either. If I like someones music, I listen to it, if I don't like the music I don't listen to it. I have learned not to judge others behavior, because I am indifferent to how people live their lives. If they break the law, law enforcement will get them, that is what we pay the cops and judges for. Why should I waste energy worrying about all of that. I prefer to live my life in a positive light.

 

What others do does not matter, you have no control over that, you only have control over what you do and how you act. Worry about that because you can do something about it.

[simpleman3441]

I don't really care about the morality of the rich or famous or my neighbors either. If I like someones music, I listen to it, if I don't like the music I don't listen to it.

 

I totally agree. I listen for music not for celebrity. Sounds to me like maybe someone is trying to validate their own behavior? Hope that comment wasn't mean spirited...

[Tennessee]

As a Christian guy, I choose simply to not listen to or watch what I find offensive. That's pretty simple. And I would respect others who would find that same music/movie/performance/sport great. After all, we all live under the banner of free will in most countries. (I dare say that listening to say, Snoop Dog in Iran would probably get you some severe punishment.)

In any case, last time I looked, every one of my listening devices, literally every one, has a knob or button that says OFF - ON. I get to choose. Same with clubs I visit, movies I see, whatever. Why are we even talking about this?? Oh, yeah. Apparently John had to vent a little. Well, OK, it's a free will thing - vent away!! BTW, if you think golf is not a sport, get out there and play/walk 18 holes against the course a few times and tell me how you did....

[Larryz]

Don't play golf and don't care one way or another if it's considered a sport, but I'm sure I can walk the 18 holes without the cart and the flask...just wonder why people care so much about a golf legend having sex on the road and couldn't care less about a rock star (in fact it's accepted in the sex, drugs and rock and roll image factor of some of our guitar heroes) doing the same thing as Tiger does on the road...I agree with the turn off switch concept though...as for the president doing it in the white house???? My wife won't let me rent a Mel Gibson movie on netflix these days because of Mel's sex life...Me, I like acting and music and really don't care about the family history stuff...

[p90jr]

If human beings had no faults and no doubts there would be no reason for art or music to provide therapy, would there?

[Eric Iverson]

There is another question, though. For us as adults, we can separate a person's talent from their lifestyle if need be.

But teenage kids don't always have that ability.

 

Of course, trashing the kid's favorite music is usually counterproductive, but might a parent not want to point out that there is a downside to certain lifestyles?

 

For the record, my wife and I never had kids - so I don't speak from personal experience. I do have friends with kids, though.

[Gifthorse]

Dunno, we are marketed what to think by TV, and the internet.

 

What opinions/views we have etc..

 

So I frankly could give a flying fart what Tiger Woods is doing. As long as he starts to TIP people in Vegas and elsewhere.

 

By the way, that is from a reliable source.. He doesn't TIP..

 

That to me is disgraceful with his income. As for his personal life. Who cares, but he doesn't tip---so what an Ahole

[p90jr]

Hmmmm...

 

I think that involves so much psychology and other individual factors... as far as the personalities that kids develop. The destructive ends of certain lifestyles are evident in the examples, but some individuals have a subconscious wish to steer themselves towards destructive ends.

 

I think Tiger Woods' problem is that he got married before he was ready to settle down, obviously. "Sex addiction" is a funny thing to me. High achieving men have high sex drives... men do everything ultimately to get laid.

 

Psychology Today: "What do Paul McCartney and Bill gates have in common? Men do everything they do to get laid."

 

So, why do he get married? Had he met the one woman he was content with? Obviously not. Probably because he was wrapped up in meeting people's expectations of him based on his image as a very disciplined individual (and people who appear to be very disciplined seem to always have some aspect of their lives that is incredibly out of control, which is why they are so focused on controlling almost every other aspect (and Woods is a notorious control freak).

[Gruupi]

Well the phrase "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" applies here. Part of the appeal of rock music was rebellion against outdated morality. So do I think that some of the things rock stars do is right, no, but I don't idolize people and don't look for role models amongst celebrities in general. We as a society put too much stock in celbrity anyway. Tiger Woods is a great golfer, but beyond that I really don't care to hear about his sex life. I don't know what percentage of people have affairs, but why should we expect Tiger Woods to act differently. The media wants to say he is a role model and should act better, but he really is just a good golfer. It is beyond me why I need his endorsment to buy a watch anyway.

 

I am big fan of Tiger Woods, he is truely amzing at the game. But my interest in him stops as soon as he leaves the 16th green. Same goes with rock stars and actors for the most part. I admire thier work but don't really care about thier personal lives. There are times when they can be so depraved as to make it so I can't enjoy their music, but usually they are just doing the same things the average guy would do.

[picker]

If it was a situation where Tiger Woods had no effect on anyone except by the scores he managed to pull in the game of golf, it wouldn't matter what did off the golf course. His private life would be private.

 

But neither he nor anyone else who has achieved celebrity is entitled to as much privacy as a person who isn't a celebrity, or so the Supreme Court has ruled. Tiger was well aware that he wasn't only playing golf for money. His endorsements wouldn't have been worth spit if he was a celebrity, a person with enough influence over some segments of our society to cause those people to buy the things he endorses. People look up to sports figures, politicians, actors, musicians, anyone who has achieved success at what they do, and very often emulate them in direct and indirect ways. It's part of the package you accept when you benefit from fame. Like it or not,once you get famous and reap those benefits, you no longer have the right to live however you want. But then, nobody really has that right anyway. Everybody has responsibilities that they must meet if they are gong to live among people. Famous people have more of them than the average. Tiger failed to meet his responsibilities, and it has cost him.

 

As far as why he married the model and then hired hookers, people can only speculate, but it's not the act of an emotionally mature individual. If, like a lot of child prodigies, Tiger spent more time working on his golf game than being socialized by contact with his peers, it is likely that he just never really grew up. Hookers in threesomes was just playtime, recess for a physically mature but emotionally stunted male. Also, I've heard his father was a very religious person, and very controlling of Tiger. The rebellion he was not allowed to express while his dad was alive all of a sudden had the freedom to jump out and go for it. High priced hookers in threesomes? For a repressed kid suddenly free and rich enough to do whatever he wanted, why not?

 

My guess is he married the model because somebody wanted him to, family, management, maybe even the woman herself. His dominating father ran his life for him since he was a kid. After he passed on, Tiger had no one actually telling him what to do anymore. So, when he would run across someone who gave him direction, he would gravitate to and work to please them.

 

It's all speculation, but seems to hang together given what little I know of Tiger's life.

[skipclone 1]

Well he had signed contracts with big-name corporate sponsors.

He knew that and he messed up anyway, that was poor judgement.

Is that any of my business-well maybe if he had gotten me inspired to take up golf seriously, or I used products he endorses I would be right to be a bit pissed.

I tend to be careful about how much forcible role modeling I toss off as the price of fame. It`s too easy to get on a slippery slope-the price of fame is plenty high already. I had a friend in Taipei who literally couldn`t walk out of his front door without someone recognizing him. He was held over for marathon recording and rerecording by the record company. He developed stomach ulcers. Should someone famous really have no right to privacy? is it okay for them to come home and find someone in their kitchen looking for souveniers, because they`re famous? getting death threats because someone didn`t like their last CD? and people think that`s what they signed on for? no wonder some celebrities say `screw this` and quit-Sinead O`Connor, Lauryn Hill, George Michael.

As far as rightness or wrongness of a particular behavior-well any statement like that should be suffixed with YMMV-I ain`t talking about mileage. Your morality may vary too.

[picker]

No, it's not right that they should have NO privacy. But as I said, it's recognized by the Supreme Court that they don't have a right to as much privacy as a citizen who hasn't allowed themselves to be made into a celebrity. I feel bad for your friend, but adults are expected to know what they are getting themselves into before they sign contracts.

 

How many here would sign a contract that says "you will trade a large part of your right to privacy, risk your health on command, and give up most of your right to self-determination in exchange for fame and lots of money?" A lot of people have, even if the contract didn't say so on it's face.

[Eric Iverson]

Makes me think of John Lennon telling his childhood friend Pete Shotton, "Pete, you're one of the few people I can have a normal conversation with." Because people often don't treat celebrities as fellow human beings!

They aren't demigods, regardless of how the media portray them. Of course, some people buy into the mythology hook line and sinker.

 

But if I met Paul McCartney, say, would I treat him like a normal human being and fellow musician? I would like to think so, but you never know until you're actually in that situation.

[Larryz]

I know I'll never be sitting down with one of the greats, but if I ever do, I won't ask for their autograph (except for Clapton as I have a pickguard I need autographed some day as long as I'm dreamin) and I won't be afraid to bring out my old guitbox and have a little fun with them...

[skipclone 1]

I feel bad for your friend, but adults are expected to know what they are getting themselves into before they sign contracts.

 

If only that were the case. Maybe the subprime mortgage meltdown wouldn`t have been so bad.

One of my uncles had a `balloon mortgage` some years ago, the name pretty much describes how the payments go. It looks like a good deal at first, then BLAM.

In any case you answered your own statement, if people knew ALL the aspects of a contract before they signed it, much fewer would be signed.

It`s almost impossible to predict how the circumstances of a contract will play out against the way succeeding life events unfold, even with a hired consultant. That is the fundamental problem with them. Mr. Woods`

dalliances would have barely registered a `whoops` without the megamillion dollar deals he had agreed to getting caught up in the mess.

[skipclone 1]

Also, well ya know, the sponsors have to cover their hide. I`m sure they give the same speech to any signee-"If you are caught or captured, this conversation will self-destruct in five seconds".

 

[Tennessee]

Well, way back into this thread, when we were still talking morality of music, someone mentioned that kids possibly cannot see the difference. I'm old enough to remember my Mother yelling at me to turn off that G-D Led Zepplin and who the hell is Steppenwolf...Fast forward a few years, I am yelling at my sons to stop already with the Ozzy and Poison. And I am sure parents today are yelling at their children to get rid of that metal music and baggy pants or I'll show you what's made of metal.

So how did we all do?

I'm a major manager in a nice company, and my kids did fine. One is a database analyst for a large insurance company, and the other is the IT director of a medium size cable provider. I have nice grandchildren who will probably be yelled at by their parents also...I wonder what they will listen to in their teen years, about one decade from now? Maybe some of you guys just starting out?? Play nice!!

 

 

[Larryz]

Both of my kids grew up and I'm very proud of them, they even like my old music and always have...now, I have two grandsons and they love music already at the ages of 1 and 2...hoping in a few decades they'll keep some of old granpa's music alive...my parents say they still don't like the Beatles although they will admit to liking a few of their songs and will still get up and dance to them at some of my private party gigs...but they never kept me from listening or tried to regulate my music...I still remember my mom taking me to see my idol circa 55-57 era? (ie. Elvis Presley on the big screen doing Jail House Rock the movie) I was about 5 or 7 years old and already doing my rocking out impersonation...I still do some old country tunes for my mom and my old man...

[Eric Iverson]

I don't think that crusades against any particular music style do any good - kids are going to listen to what they like, regardless.

I DO understand parents warning their kids about the dangers of substance abuse and things like that.

It really comes down to teaching kids values, doesn't it, more so than crusades? Especially if the kids see their parents practice what they preach!

[picker]

But if I met Paul McCartney, say, would I treat him like a normal human being and fellow musician? I would like to think so, but you never know until you're actually in that situation.

 

What I'd like to ask people like McCartney, Clapton and anyone else who got to the top of the heap is what to look for, try to get, and to avoid in contracts with recording and management companies. They are the people who've dealt with that stuff successfully, and I bet they could give some really good advice.

 

But, they'd probably just say "get a good lawyer." Seems to be the thing in pretty much every situation these days...

[skipclone 1]

I tried to pose the same question to Larry Coryell-totally cool guy but he either didn`t know or didn`t have enough time for a good answer.