Playing with Subs

[Tonysounds]

Broken electronic drum parts with duct tape and pieces falling off; notoriously "buggy" keyboards at the heart of a particularly stylized form of music requiring "special needs"....great nightly pay....

 

I am doing something very wrong. (see signature line)

 

 

[ProfD]

Dan,

 

I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh, but perhaps a bit of "physician heal thyself" could apply to you and your rig as well? I seem to recall you posting previously about problems with your Fusion (I'm assuming that's the board that went down last night), and although having a spare is great, it doesn't do you much good if it's not on the job with you when you need it.

 

If you don't want to haul the spare with you to every gig, maybe it's time for you to invest some of your very nice gigging cash in more reliable equipment for yourself as well?

 

Tough love, brother. Tough love.

 

Noah

Amen.

 

I completely overlooked Dan's gear snafu above.

 

While the current crop of workstations do not contain the full functionality of the Fusion, I believe any one of them would be more reliable.

 

IMO, that Triton should be able to cover the entire gig in a pinch. Even if that means dropping parts or playing more live.

 

Dan, I may have suggested it already but another piece of gear to consider would be the Roland MV8000 or MV8800. Like MPCs, I'd imagine touring pros use it.

[Tonysounds]

I have to admit: when I first saw the thread subject line, I thought maybe this was some sort of CraigsList dating thread.

 

What a disappointment.

[Bridog6996]

The sound guy for one of the bands I play in puts masking tape on any bad cable he finds marked FU. Throws them in a different case and takes them home and fixes them.

 

That's why I don't trash the bad cables either. Pretty easy to fix a cable, so why spend $ to replace it? What with the recession and all...

[J. Dan]

Dan,

 

I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh, but perhaps a bit of "physician heal thyself" could apply to you and your rig as well? I seem to recall you posting previously about problems with your Fusion (I'm assuming that's the board that went down last night), and although having a spare is great, it doesn't do you much good if it's not on the job with you when you need it.

 

If you don't want to haul the spare with you to every gig, maybe it's time for you to invest some of your very nice gigging cash in more reliable equipment for yourself as well?

 

Tough love, brother. Tough love.

 

Noah

Amen.

 

I completely overlooked Dan's gear snafu above.

 

While the current crop of workstations do not contain the full functionality of the Fusion, I believe any one of them would be more reliable.

 

IMO, that Triton should be able to cover the entire gig in a pinch. Even if that means dropping parts or playing more live.

 

Dan, I may have suggested it already but another piece of gear to consider would be the Roland MV8000 or MV8800. Like MPCs, I'd imagine touring pros use it.

 

Yeah, I knew that was coming. I had some problems with it earlier and did make an attempt to fix it, after which time it didn't give me any problems for quite a while. Then I did have the temporary screen freeze once on NYE, but then no problems after that. It's hard to decide when to make major changes with such an intermittant problem. If I were playing further from home I would bring the spare, but this place was 15 min from my house.

 

In terms of other keyboards, The problem I have with the Triton (and the M3 for that matter), is that you have to preload songs/samples from disk, and in the case of the triton, I would still need another VA keyboard or module. I'm trying to hold out until the PC3K comes out in March because it sounds like that may be what I've been waiting for.

 

Needless to say, my "backup" fusion performed flawlessly last night, so I think I'll be playing with that one and maybe try replacing the power supply board in the other one.

 

Regardless - the point is I took care of my gear issues and I don't think anybody in the crowd knew the difference (it had no impact on the show).

[DanS]

Yeah, I knew that was coming. I had some problems with it earlier and did make an attempt to fix it, after which time it didn't give me any problems for quite a while. Then I did have the temporary screen freeze once on NYE, but then no problems after that. It's hard to decide when to make major changes with such an intermittant problem.

 

"Not that you should, but I fire my stuff up at gigs from freezing temps all the time. The displays are slow for a while, but that's about it."

 

You might want to reconsider this habit in light of your recent & ongoing issues.

[J. Dan]

"Not that you should, but I fire my stuff up at gigs from freezing temps all the time. The displays are slow for a while, but that's about it."

 

You might want to reconsider this habit in light of your recent & ongoing issues.

 

I think the issue is actually heat. I was thinking back, and most times that I've ever had any kind of trouble, it's been at the end of the night (after it's been heating up all night). I don't ever have problems with it at home - ever - but I don't keep my house blazing. Last night, the stage was REALLY hot. Even off stage, people were complaining about how hot it was in there, and it was even hotter on stage. I think that's why it was so much worse, and I think why keeping it turned off most of the time made it work long enough to get a song out of it when needed - it would cool down. The only question is if replacing the power supply board will fix it, or if there is something else in there drawing more power than it's supposed to. I have replaced the I/O board, display driver, and backlight dimmer on this board already. I do try to keep it maintained as well as possible and immediately replace boards if I can identify a problem. This latest problem was tougher because it never did it at home, and at first I just though maybe the power cord was bad or a wire was coming loose because of vibration while playing. So one of the biggest reasons the problem has gone on as long as it has is because I've tried other things to chase down the problem, but not knowing if it was fixed or not because it did it so infrequently.

[Ian Benhamou]

A great drummer I played with over the last 4 years is so obsessive about his tone that he spends a good 15-20 minutes at soundcheck just tuning ...

That is wonderful, but he should be doing this on his time, not yours. (Usually, with an instrument that requires extra attention the tech or player shows up early.)

 

First off, the guy is as pro as it gets. Always one of the first guys to show up at a rehearsal or gig. Spends most of his setup time tuning each piece in his kit. It's just that he's so particular about finding the right tone for his snare that he frequently checks it and retunes as the night progresses.

 

If you check my profile, you'll see I live up in Montreal, where winter temperatures frequently hit -15 to -20 degrees celsius (-5 to 0 degrees farenheit). Drums, guitars and basses go out of tune just on the trip from the car to inside the club. From then it takes at least 30-45 minutes for the instrument to grab the temperature of the room and stabilize.

[Bill H.]

Just a few random thoughts after reading this thread - none of which are about playing with subs

 

1. Just getting a drummer to play a set of Simmons pads at all would be a feat unto itself today. I worked with a couple of drummers almost 30 years ago who tried their best with those things but gave it up after only a few months. They absolutely hated them. If the current drummer puts up with them at all he should be given some credit.

 

2. The biggest problem I have with drummers tuning their set - and this is only with a few drummers and by no means all of them - is that some like to tune their snares too high. This is because of they like they way their sticks bounce off a tight snare head. With guys like this, it's very tough to get them to detune their snares enough so the band gets a good solid "thwack" out front. They're addicted to a live sticks.

 

3. Anyone who donates some of their living space for band rehearsal is aces in my book. You guys who have the band rehearse in your home know what I'm sayin' It's not for the faint at heart. In my experience there have been no preferences to drummers hosting rehearsal at their place. It's been pretty even across the board.

 

4. I really don't care much about the state of a guy's gear as long as it works. Whether vintage or new, it can't interfere or interrupt the show. I've worked with a lot of guys, drummers and non-drummers alike, whose kit looks like crap but is dependable, reliable, and sounds great.

 

5. We seemed to have picked up a studio cat who has a beef against the way keyboard players and drummers behave in his studio. I have no idea what he's doing in a keyboard forum, but once again in my experience on average I've not noticed any worse (or better) behavior out of keyboard players and drummers than guitar and bass players. I've been playing steadily for over 35 years and have worked with hundreds and hundreds of musicians. It's all in the individual - not the instrument he (or she) plays.

[DanS]

Just a few random thoughts after reading this thread - none of which are about playing with subs

 

1. Just getting a drummer to play a set of Simmons pads at all would be a feat unto itself today. I worked with a couple of drummers almost 30 years ago who tried their best with those things but gave it up after only a few months. They absolutely hated them. If the current drummer puts up with them at all he should be given some credit.

 

It's not like the guy can't use an updated Roland kit with mesh pads and call up a Simmons style kit. There's no excuse to have to play on that horrible surface if you don't want to.

I realize that the vibe of Dan's band is to be "all 80's all the time" in look and feel, but in my experience, the audience isn't going to notice/care whether he's using a Simmons or a Roland kit.

[Mogut]

80's had some great acoustic drums in that era. Ludwig rockers comes to mind.

[montunoman]

 

Drums need to be tuned on stage before every gig period! This must be standard procedure.

 

Maybe so in an ideal world. But having a drummer tuning his drums before the gig starts and between songs can get the band fired. I've been there...

[Mogut]

Drums need to be tuned on stage before every gig period! This must be standard procedure.

 

Maybe so in an ideal world. But having a drummer tuning his drums before the gig starts and between songs can get the band fired. I've been there...

 

I know exactly what your talking about! I've been told to quit the drum tuning by venues as well

[J. Dan]

Actually, the reason we use the Simmons pads is for the cheesey look. But he does use a Roland Mesh Head snare (you don't see that as much), and my idea was to set up a mesh kick as well and just set up the simmons shell in front of it so that's what you see. He doesn't want to spend the money for it because they run like $400. I figure the simmons tom pads aren't as big of a deal, and he uses acoustic cymbals.

[Mark Schmieder]

Hah, I skipped this thread at first because I thought it was about sub-woofers! Somehow when I saw it olisted today, I immediately realised it was about substitute musicians!

 

I've been on both sides of the sub equation. It can be very stressful, but more often than not, the sub (including when it's me) is a known quantity that comes highly recommended, so at least you know they won't flake and will put an effort into it.

 

Surprisingly, we have had the least trouble subbing drummers than guitarists or singers. This may be partly due to the huge number of high caliber drummers in the SF Bay Area, and the fact that I know most of them already. :-)

 

I think the other thing is that the rhythm section is about chemistry, and you figure that out right away. This includes the guitarist when they are in more of a rhythm guitar mode, which is generally the case for pop/dance from the 80's. As long as the chemistry is there, the main job of entertaining the audience and everyone having a good time, will probably succeed.