New Genesis Live box set

[Dave Bryce]

 

Sitting here listening to the 5.1 remix of Dancing With The Moonlit Night off of the Rainbow bootleg from 1973.

 

[DanS]

..and how are they?

 

The more I listen to these sets, the more I'm starting to hear little anomalies between the original recordings.

I find the 1970-75 discs sound better than the 75-82. 75-82 is really bright on the EQ, almost unpleasantly so.

Some of the arrangements/mixes are different as well. The bass line in Ripples for example, not the same as the vinyl & first CD pressing. There's a few others that I can't remember at the moment.

 

Haven't decided yet if I'm going to go for the live set.

I understand only a few of the recordings are in surround?

[Dave Bryce]

..and how are they?

I'm actually a bit disappointed in Seconds Out on first listening...I've gotten to some of that - up to the end of "side 2" - The Rainbow show and some of Three Sides Live. Seconds Out is kinda dark, and at first blush was a bit muddy. Don't know how much of that was the source tapes - I'll probably get to comparing against the originals at some point...

 

The Rainbow show, OTOH, was really great.

 

I find the 1970-75 discs sound better than the 75-82. 75-82 is really bright on the EQ, almost unpleasantly so.

Wow...really? I can't bright is one of the things I'd say about that set....I mean, the recordings in general were a bit more hi-fi as they went along...burt almost unpleasant? I'm not hearing that...

 

Haven't decided yet if I'm going to go for the live set.

I understand only a few of the recordings are in surround?

Yup. Genesis Live, Seconds Out and The Rainbow disc only. Haven't gotten to Genesis Live yet...

 

dB

[Odyssian]

I still haven't bought the Genesis / Rhino 70s studio re-releases, but I still plan to. The customer reviews that I just read on amazon dot com for Trick of the Tail sound very disappointing though.

 

One customer wrote that the guitar has been mixed so loudly that the Mellotron can't even be heard at times Also mentioned are over-used compression, bad EQ, and that the keys are mixed too low:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Trick-Tail-CD-DVD-Genesis/dp/B000P7V45S/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/176-9926218-6146032

 

What are your feelings on the sound of the Genesis 70s studio re-releases from Rhino? I would hope that the DVD surround tracks sound nice at least!

[Dave Bryce]

One customer wrote that the guitar has been mixed so loudly that the Mellotron can't even be heard at times Also mentioned are over-used compression, bad EQ, and that the keys are mixed too low

I tend to have a hard time giving much cred to the opinion of someone who I don't know what speakers they're using, what their room sounds like, or what kind of ear they have.

 

I'm inclined to trust the ears of the Genesis guys (who had to approve the mixes) and Nick Davis, who has spent literally years of his life on this project. I'm not sure how likely it is that they'd let a project out with all the things wrong cited above.

 

I have all of the box sets except for the one with the most recent material, and the vast majority of the stuff is done spectacularly, IMO...although I do admit to only listening to the 5.1 remixes. I think Trick of The Tail is amazing - it's the first one I reach for in that set.

 

dB

[Odyssian]

Awesome, Dave...and good point! It's good to know that the surround tracks sound great. I can't wait to hear it for myself.

 

My favorite releases (can't really say LPs anymore! ) are Trick, Wind and Wuthering, and And Then There Were Three. I hope to get all of the surround mixes.

[Odyssian]

...along with Foxtrot.

[BP3]

dB, have a listen to the stereo mix of Trick, you'll see where it's pretty squished.

 

That said, I'm looking forward to this box, especially the Rainbow set.

[Joe Muscara]

can't really say LPs anymore!

Funny thing is, I believe you can. Calling it a record, LP, or album has always been appropriate, but vinyl, tape, and CD are not. IMNSHO, anyway.

 

Meanwhile, I still need to get these Genesis box sets.

[Dave Bryce]

dB, have a listen to the stereo mix of Trick, you'll see where it's pretty squished.

Y'see, your ear I trust.

 

Now I kinda don't want to listen to the stereo mix....is one of those mastering it so it'd be able to play in the iPod with everyone else sort of deals?

 

dB

[Nordude]

The Ripples bass line is different indeed on the 2007 re-issue. Most notably, the fast bass pattern upwards just before the 2nd chorus (where the drums enter) is missing, and always was one of my favourite moments of the song. But on the whole, I kinda like the TOTT, Duke and (especially) W&W re-issues. Even on the stereo remaster (remix?), I hear so many more details, on Eleventh Earl of Mar, for instance.

 

And TLLDOB is great as well. Great drum work and drum sound by PC, which are even more apparent on the 2008 version. And that deep bass and fierce drum part on Fly On A Windshield (the 'Pharaoh Thing'): great, great, great.

 

Hoped that TSL would be in surround as well, but unfortunately not. The Cage-Cinema Show-Slipperman-Afterglow on TSL shows that specific Genesis edition on the top of their live game, IMHO. Fluent keyboard work (more so than in 2007), nice and not too harsh synth sounds... would be great in 5.1. Hopefully, the announced live DVD set will deliver in that respect. Great to see Afterglow and the purple/pink airplane lights again, a truly ecstatic sight (even on my TSL VHS tape).

[Dirty Bach]

I saw them on the first tour in the US without Gabriel- I guess that was "Trick of the Tail" .. NOt sure what year that was - Binghampton ,NY - Does the new box set give a list of all their live dates? It was their first show in the US of that tour i was told - the best sound of any group Ive ever seen. I later was told it was their mix engineer from their Lp's doing the sound.. don't know if that was true... but it was great..

[DanS]

The Ripples bass line is different indeed on the 2007 re-issue. Most notably, the fast bass pattern upwards just before the 2nd chorus (where the drums enter) is missing, and always was one of my favourite moments of the song.

 

This is exactly the spot I'm refering to, the quick little run is replaced by a simple octave segue.

 

When I was shopping for a new set of speakers for my stereo, I ran the new version of Squonk thru a set of Totems, and it sounded terrible. I assumed the speakers weren't as good as I initially thought (I had listened to some Steely Dan thru them the previous visit, and they sounded incredible).

 

Don't get me wrong, I love these sets, I just find TOTT is overbright, and 70-75 has the edge sonically over 76-82.

And at $125 up here, the Live boxset better sound pretty good.

 

[Jim Alfredson]

I wonder if these small changes are things the band members themselves wanted. For instance, perhaps Mike Rutherford was never happy about that bass part and so they changed it?

 

Frankly, I hate that kind of thing. Let the albums stand on their own; don't be changing something we've all listened to a thousand times or more over the last 30 years. It's like "updating" an old movie. Bad bad bad.

[DanS]

Frankly, I hate that kind of thing. Let the albums stand on their own; don't be changing something we've all listened to a thousand times or more over the last 30 years. It's like "updating" an old movie. Bad bad bad.

 

Nick: Tony, which bass line was it in Ripples, the first take or the second?

Tony: I think it was the second take, let me phone Mike.

Tony: Mike, which bass line did you want used in Ripples?

Mike: Bloody hell Tony, HTF am I supposed to remember something like that? I think it was the first take.

Tony: Nick, flip a coin.

[Jim Alfredson]

You're probably right. But how hard would it have been to compare it to the old mixes?

[gryphon]

Speaking as an electrical engineer, (although putting my project manager hat on) we acknowledge the saying about shooting the engineers to get on with production.

 

Same thing for this. Get on with life.

 

Even the original musicians do not always duplicate their original sounds. Parts change, too.

 

As for changing the original movie, that isn't always correct. "His Girl Friday" was an order of magnitude better than all versions of "The Front Page" before and after.

[DanS]

Speaking as an electrical engineer, (although putting my project manager hat on) we acknowledge the saying about shooting the engineers to get on with production.

 

Same thing for this. Get on with life.

 

Even the original musicians do not always duplicate their original sounds. Parts change, too.

 

I think you're missing the point. We're not talking about the same musicians today being asked to re-create their parts for a new recording.

This is a question of alternate takes being used on a 33 year old recording for a re-release that is supposed to just be a re-master/surround mix.

[Tonysounds]

The Mona Lisa originally was blond.

[mate stubb]

It's a nonissue for me. If something is remixed and remastered, even that bothers me. So I don't rush out to buy the latest redo of songs that became part of my life.

 

I still play Taj Mahal's "Natch'l Blues" album. It's a digitization of a cassette dub of a well worn vinyl LP.

 

Pops and all, it's like comfort food.

[Dave Bryce]

It's a nonissue for me. If something is remixed and remastered, even that bothers me. So I don't rush out to buy the latest redo of songs that became part of my life.

I'm actually inclined to agree when it comes to stereo (I still don't have even one of the Beatles remasters yet); however, I do make an exception when it comes to the 5.1 remixes because they're typically so totally different that I almost never find myself comparing them to their stereo counterparts...and it's unbelievably interesting to me to hear the placement choices the engineers make, especially given the fact that there's no real standards in place for that.

 

dB

[linwood]

Slightly OT but db...I got the Beatles stereo remasters yesterday morning,UPS. I listened to the Beatles for 9 straight hours yesterday. Didn't get anything done. I had forgotten how great the white album is. I was more interested in just having it all in one place more than anything else. I've heard the mono mixes, as well but wanted the stereo ones because that's what the Beatles sound like to me. I had total mania yesterday and listening to the early stuff and really listening to George and his tone and parts. Wow! A Gretsch CG and a ac30 is a beautiful thing. Pick it up for yourself.

[Dave Bryce]

Slightly OT but db...I got the Beatles stereo remasters yesterday morning,UPS. I listened to the Beatles for 9 straight hours yesterday. Didn't get anything done. I had forgotten how great the white album is. I was more interested in just having it all in one place more than anything else. I've heard the mono mixes, as well but wanted the stereo ones because that's what the Beatles sound like to me. I had total mania yesterday and listening to the early stuff and really listening to George and his tone and parts. Wow! A Gretsch CG and a ac30 is a beautiful thing. Pick it up for yourself.

'preciate that, brother Linwood...as The Beatles are pretty much my favorite band and as Christmas is coming, I'm sure my wife will arrange for some to come my way...

 

If those suckas had been remixed for 5.1, I'd have had them in a heartbeat, though...still digging my copy of LOVE - talk about messing with the originals!

 

dB