Kenny Barron and Brad Mehldau DUO, what do you think?

[Jazz+]

What's your critique of the Kenny Barron and Brad Mehldau Jazz Duo? Compare and contrast the two pianists:

 

Billie's Bounce:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNZpuBX3mZQ

 

Black Orpheus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYK0xGt2Zls

[SK]

I rarely like piano duos, but sometimes they work well.

 

Neither pianist sounded their best on this, and they could both have played better alone. Kenny Barron out-bopped and out played Brad on Billie's Bounce. Black Orpheus, I thought, was bad.

 

I respect Kenny Barron and he always delivers something.

 

Brad sounds his best when he's playing his own concept. I always think he plays interesting stuff, but it kinda leaves me cold.

 

That's my honest if not so positive review.

 

 

[Dave Ferris]

First off, I usually hate listening to piano duos. There is no space in the frequencies. Boy those Faziolis were BRIGHT sounding. On Carnival around 3: something, somebody was playing up near the top and it almost tore my ear off...ouchy.

 

All in all, I thought they played well together and it was fairly musical. It seemed Brad might have felt a little reigned in by Kenny's strict Bop feel, but who can say for sure. This was 10 years ago, everyone's playing changes in that time.

 

On BB I liked how Brad at the end of his solo went into a detached rhythmic thing, it kinda broke up the endless stream of 8th notes by Kenny. It might sound like I'm ragging on KB a bit but from '86-'98, I was probably his biggest groupie around. I knew every note of every solo, even his sideman dates, it was pretty silly. I still love his playing but tend to like a little more space and stretching of the time these days. Tastes change over time.

 

I thought Brad made more of a statement on Carnival. It was good to hear him in a more strict, straight ahead mode. Man , that guy can play! I loved those octaves in the RH he was doing there. when Kenny was playing the intro on that , his Faz sounded really out of tune. Maybe it slipped in the outside summer air.

 

Check out those reharm block chords KB throws in there going out on the last 8 of the first A on Carnival.....he always has a ton of vocabulary at his disposal. Still a master artist!

 

It was interesting to hear them together but I know I would never need to hear it again.

[Dave Ferris]

I agree with Steve....they both would have definitely sounded better on their own.

 

I bought Brad's first 3 or 4 records when he came out to check out all the buzz. I listened over and and over, but to tell you the truth it left me cold has well...I ended up giving the CDs away to a student who was way into him.

 

That being said, I still think he's a brilliant pianist with perhaps the best feeling for playing over the bar line and odd time sigs that has ever been heard in Jazz. Still with all their poly-rhythmic complexity, the music leaves me cold, I would put on a CD from Keith's "Live at Blue Note". It just speaks to me more. Different strokes.

 

I can see how younger 20 & 30 something guys look up to Brad. I think it is definitely a generational thing the same way guys my age were inspired by Keith and Chick. He is one of their spokesman. His music represents a lot of the angst and joy of their younger years while growing up and trying to find one's way in these hard, complex times.

[MAJUSCULE]

First off, I usually hate listening to piano duos. There is no space in the frequencies. Boy those Faziolis were BRIGHT sounding. On Carnival around 3: something, somebody was playing up near the top and it almost tore my ear off...ouchy.

 

Oof, caught that too... My friend has a Fazioli. While it's a beautiful instrument and I'll never dream of owning anything as good as it, it was bright since the beginning. In fact, my nearly one hundred-year old Montréal-made upright still is softer than her year-old Fazioli.

[Morizzle]

I haven't heard much of Kenny Barron, so I don't know if it's his style, but I really don't like his touch. There are lots of really loud, sudden notes in an otherwise balanced surrounding. It seems to me LIKE he's suddenly SHOUTING at you without A reason.

His melodic and harmonic ideas while soloing and comping are just great, there's a lot to learn from them. But those bursts irritate me.

[Legatoboy]

I'll take that Kenny Barron album with Red Mitchell over the duo with Brad for the time being. Not that Brad is bad or anything that sounds like fun. I wish I could find the damn Red Barron Duo recording though. I really needed it at one point, it could have helped me turn a corner. There is one copy in Europe for $85. One went over Xmas on Ebay for 25.35! Santa was not happy and Rodolph had a red nose. I was a day late!

 

It was recorded in Denmark or Amsterdam I believe at Red's place.

[kanker.]

I rarely like piano duos, but sometimes they work well.

 

Neither pianist sounded their best on this, and they could both have played better alone. Kenny Barron out-bopped and out played Brad on Billie's Bounce. Black Orpheus, I thought, was bad.

 

I respect Kenny Barron and he always delivers something.

 

Brad sounds his best when he's playing his own concept. I always think he plays interesting stuff, but it kinda leaves me cold.

 

That's my honest if not so positive review.

 

I agree with SK 100%. Mehldau has amazing facility and an incredibly deep concept, and I'd love to have some of each, but something about his playing has always left me a little cold too.

 

Interesting story. Indianapolis has an organization called the American PIanists Association. They run two major piano competitions, one classical, one jazz. Mehldau entered the jazz competition sometime in the 90's and.........didn't win. Some friends of mine were the rhythm section for the players, and as they were announcing the winner, the drummer was standing next to Brad, turned to him and said " You should have won, hands down." The judges have frequently been a little conservative in their tastes, and I think in many ways, Brad was already too heavy. Of course, I have no idea who won, but we all know who Mehldau is....

[Legatoboy]

ya, when I heard Brad on the opening tune of his first CD, the only one of his I have. That very first tune. He was cold right out of the chute.

 

Steve Kuhn (sp) lived in Whitestone NY, the town I grew up in and would take a haircut right before me more that once, actually, quite a few times. The guy I study with said Yeah, Steves a thinker! I went to one of his shows somewhere and had one of his CD's once. I have a vague memory of his playing now mostly because I haven't heard him(Kuhn).

 

HE had alot of chops! I can still remember his head in the barbers chair getting cut by one of the girls!

[Jazzwee]

First off, I love Mehldau. I think he sounds unique and I listen to his stuff over and over and learn more and more nuances. If he leaves you cold, he leaves me VERY warm.

 

Apparently, based on his popularity and the fact that "aspiring jazz pianists" everywhere want to sound like him attest to this fact.

 

BUT - truly he sounds awful with Kenny Barron. To me it's like the styles don't mix. Mehldau sounds jagged and is exaggerated by the roundness of Kenny's playing. It's like a sharp contrast and I truly did not enjoy this entire concert.

 

Sure I heard some of Mehldau's typical lines but it needs to almost be heard against a quiet bass, rather than the screaching effect of two pianos in the same register.

 

A strange observation. Among the jazzers that I connect with, 100% of those who have been playing a long time say they are not moved by him. At one time one player actually said to me, "the only difference between Mehldau and me is that he gets better promotion...". I should have said, "Dream on....I knew Jack Kennedy and you're no Jack Kennedy..."

 

In contrast, those newer to Jazz, say the exact opposite, if his popularity is any clue. It's very interesting and I have never really understood this.

 

In fact I would bet Mehldau was ignored when he used to live in LA right before he became famous.

[SK]

Well, there's lots of reasons to like Mehldau. Certainly not trying to diss him, because I think Mehldau is a very impressive player. He has a good concept, good execution, he plays great in different time signatures and he's unique. Those qualities would ordinarily put him at the top of my list, if it weren't for a handful of players.

 

Like him or not, Keith Jarrett is never a cold player. He plays each note spontaneously, without preconceived ideas about what's going to come out. Mehldau just sounds like he may have planned some of what he's playing. I can't say that he has, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it misses the depth which can be found in the moment. He may grow more since he's still young, but Jarrett was playing his butt off before he was Mehldau's age.

 

Simply in terms of amazing technique, but someone who also leaves me a little cold, is Hiromi. I honestly think she has the best computer-like technical accuracy of any jazz piano player I've heard. But then again, the music doesn't go deep enough for me, which also has a lot to do with the material in her concerts. There's a lot that can be drawn out of a piano.

 

[frogmonkey]

I've never heard a piano duo that I liked. Too many piano notes. Too clunky. It always strikes me a a self-indulgent gimmick.

 

I've heard Meldau play some very tasteful and spare stuff; "Art Of The Trio Volume 3: Songs" was beautiful. But usually his playing doesn't move me. Too many notes, too little soul. He's not doing much for me here, either.

 

Kenny Baron is a Master, and everything he touches is worth a listen or three.

 

I'd rather hear either on of these guys alone or with a bass player.

[Piano4U]

For me, the main difference between these two player's performances is that if I was subjected to a "blindfold test", I would recognize KB and his well-developed, hard-swinging, great lines, style quite easily. I think this being recorded when it was, Brad's style was not as fully developed and also, Brad seems to shine when in his own looser-based trio setting.

 

As other forum members have mentioned, piano duos can be tough to pull-off. My guess is the players were doing this performance as a contractual obligation through the festival promoter as opposed to them saying "hey how about if we do a piano duo, wouldn't that be great?"

 

 

[Dana.]

I find it interesting that so many people are saying that Mehldau's playing leaves them cold. I was a big fan up until Jorge Rossy, the original trio drummer, left the band. I love those early Art of the Trio albums, as well as Places. I can't determine exactly what happened but when Jeff Ballard took over the seat, Mehldau's playing stopped moving me. I saw the trio at the Vanguard in October 2006 (the Live album was recorded at those shows) and was very disappointed--almost shocked--at how sterile and aimless Mehldau's playing was. They opened with "Wonderwall" by Oasis, which I think has a very flat, uninteresting melody, and they also played a 23-minute version of "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden that went absolutely nowhere. This was probably the fourth or fifth time I had seen Mehldau, and I left the Vanguard thinking that I didn't want to see him again.

[lucasb]

Listening to BB, gee that's a lot of notes. I think they could've retired after this concert, it sound like they played them all...

[Legatoboy]

There is a lot to like about Mehldau's playing.....

 

This is just 'picky time'!

[kanker.]

As other forum members have mentioned, piano duos can be tough to pull-off. My guess is the players were doing this performance as a contractual obligation through the festival promoter as opposed to them saying "hey how about if we do a piano duo, wouldn't that be great?"

 

This is not uncommon. Festival promoters think they "what a great idea" when the idea actually makes artist do something so unnatural that it may be completely outside their experience, much less their interest. I've had to back up some guys in just those sorts of situations - it's as if the promoter never actually *listened* to the artist to determine what might be appropriate or preferable.

[Dave Horne]

I wouldn't buy a CD of this but enjoyed it nonetheless.

 

I was expecting to hear a walking bass line or possible stride from one player (during Billie's Bounce) as the other soloed.

 

I saw Kenny Barron live with Chuck Israels about 20 years ago. Kenny played great (as always) and Chuck showed off and overplayed. I can't imagine Kenny Barron enjoyed that evening.

[Legatoboy]

KB is masterful, great ears and senses. His voicings are so open hand wise, amazing hands. I sat right behind him, almost on top of him for a long set at the old Fat Tuesdays in NYC. A lesson learned!