Lesser known 20th century orchestral...

[humannoyed]

I was in the hardware store a few days ago getting a wire brush and some sandpaper, and they had public radio playing through the overhead speaker system. I don't know what was playing, but it was obviously an early/mid 20th century orchestral piece, and it was totally working for me. It wasn't anyone obvious like Stravinsky, Copland, etc. It did seem to have an American sound to it - possibly Roy Harris, but really that is a stab in the dark. It was not atonal by any means but neither was it traditionally tonal at all. It had an very "expanded" sense of tonality which grabbed my attention. I must say it sparked my imagination and made me want to explore 20th century orchestral music again.

 

So, I thought I would ask for some suggestions for some lesser known 20th century things that you like and would recommend.

 

I'll start: "Quiet City" by Aaron Copland - the version is Copland conducts Copland with the London Symphony Orchestra. There are other versions out there that are not nearly as good, so make sure your check out that one. As it's title suggests, it is quiet and contemplative. Give it about 2 or 3 listens before you try to make a judgement as it will grow on you.

Of course that is hardly an example of the "expanded" tonality that I am now itching to explore, but I really love that version of that piece.

 

 

This next one I should have re-bought on cd by now, as I about wore out the cassette tape I had of it. It is "Medea's Meditation and Dance of Vengeance" by Samual Barber - performed by the NYPO and conducted by Thomas Schippers. Barber's famous "Adagio For Strings" in on this recording also, but is my least favorite of all the Barber pieces on that recording, simply because it gets old after a few hearings whereas the other pieces like "Medea" will grow on you after listening several times.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

Day

[reidmc]

lesser-known is a relative term, but here are four works that always engage me. . .

 

Berg - Lyric Suite (my favorite piece of chamber music)

Bridge - String Quartets (I like #2 and #3 best)

Gubaidulina - Offertorium (excellent violin concerto)

Sallinen - Some Aspects of Peltoniemi Hintrik's Funeral March

[Mark Schmieder]

Anything by Darius Milhaud, one of the greatest underrated composers of all time. A good start is "La Creation du Monde". He took a path similar to Stravinsky's, in embracing jazz, the farcical, and modern harmonic and rhythmic elements while remaining mostly accessible and melodic.

[Dave Horne]

Carl Nielsen ... I have been searching online for DAYS trying to find an actual piano tab for his 4th symphony.

 

Carl Nielsen also appears on the Danish 100 Kroner bill (the equivalent of $20 or 14). I would imagine not too many composers have made it that far on a national currency.

[Bridog6996]

Penderecki and Boulez have done some very interesting things. Check out Penderecki's "Actions for Free Jazz Orchestra." Debussy's "Jeux" is very cool. Charles Ives' "The Unanswered Question" as well as his Fourth Symphony. Messiaen's "Chronochromie," "Oiseaux Exotiques," and "Reveil des Oiseaux."

 

I really dig on the so-called "Third Stream" stuff as well: Gunther Schuller (check out "Seven Studies on Themes of Paul Klee") and George Russell.

 

Oh, thought of more Penderecki: "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima" and "Fluorescences"

[marino]

Oh, thought of more Penderecki: "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima" and "Fluorescences"

Those are both fantastic. Also, "De Natura Sonoris".

 

I guess Ligeti is widely known, but I can't help thinking of his "Atmospheres", "Lontano", and "Etudes for Piano".

Poulenc's "Aubade" for piano & orchestra.

Luciano Berio's "Folksongs", a masterwork, especially in Kathy Berberian's interpretation.

Goffredo Petrassi's relatively unknown "Sacred Hymns" for male voice and pipe organ.

Two of my favorite electronic musicians: Michael McNabb ("Invisible Cities") and William Schottstaedt ("Leviathan").

The colossal "Prometeo" by Luigi Nono.

 

Etc. etc.

 

 

[SK]

+1 to every name on the page.

 

I loved Milhaud's short Brazilian pieces for piano and learned some of it.

 

In my 20's I would special order any European album by many of these composers like Berg. The record store would call me, seemingly baffled, and say "Uh sir, your Penderecki "Devils Of Loudon" album is in."

 

Gunther Schuller's "Jazz Abstractions" is interesting - recorded with strings and a wild cast of players, Bill Evans, Jim Hall, Ornette Coleman, etc. His version of "Django" on there is nice. His pieces for Paul Klee fascinates me - I'm actually considering trying some musical interpretations of his paintings. Klee's pencil sketches were killer too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lucasb]

It could have been something by Hindemith that you heard. I am a big fan of his music and it's definitely got that quality you are describing- tonal but in an 'expanded' way.

Not lesser known, but I think Prokofiev is under-appreciated in some circles. Try checking out all 9 of his Piano Sonatas, they're all very distinct and some pretty far reaching. A true master composer.

[.......]

Messiaen's 'Eclairs sur l'Au-dela' is one of my faves

 

short clips can be heard here

http://www.amazon.com/Olivier-Messiaen-Éclairs-sur-lAu-delà/dp/B0002IPZ6Y

 

I heard the premier of Unsuk Chin's cello concerto at the proms the other week, pretty crazy stuff, but very interesting.

[Mark Schmieder]

Nikolai Medtner was a romantic, but lived and composed primarily in the 20th century. It is a mystery to me why his works are not better-known, for they are hyper-melodic.

 

It may be because he focused primarily on solo piano works and songs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Medtner

 

My mother discovered him while she was a piano major in college, and to this day everyone in my family tries to hunt down the few rare recordings that exist of his works.

[Mark Schmieder]

In the SF Bay Area, we lost a giant a few years ago, Lou Harrison.

 

Lou Harrison did not stick to one composing style, so I really relate to him on many levels. He was equally comfortable in jazz, classical, and pop crowds.

 

A few years ago, I found a recording of his short opera, "Rapunzel", which is full of whimsy, thoroughly modern, but accessible.

 

Some of you may have become familiar with him the same way that I did: Keith Jarrett recorded some of his works.

[OldTuna]

Earl Wild has an excellent recording of Medtner's piano music on Chesky Records that is well worth seeking out.

[humannoyed]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!! Plenty here to check out.

 

I had a feeling this would be a better place to post for suggestions than on the guitar forum.... :wink:

 

I am not sure it was Hindemith that I heard, but that reminded me of a recording of harp music of PH by Zabaleta that I have been meaning to try to find. What a study in extreme contrast - A stark, austere style of music on one of the most intimate and personal of instruments - an unlikely combination that really works well together.

 

 

Day

 

 

 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Well, on the guitar forum, someone at least might turn you onto Hector Villa-Lobos (though a flutist is just as likely to mention their love for this 20th Century South American composer).

[marino]

I just love Villa Lobos. Most of his piano things are quite hard to play, though.

 

 

[Dave Horne]

I love Villa Lobos as well. I was exposed to his music back in high school and have fond memories of Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5 for voice and cellos.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_06B1SQjRRQ

[lucasb]

Funny you mention Villa Lobos- I heard a piece on the radio just last night of his, it was with Soprano, Guitar, and Piano and I was surprised to hear that Lee Ritenour and Dave Grusin were the instrumentalists. Didn't know they recorded much classical stuff.

[Dave Ferris]

Poulenc has Carlo mentioned earlier....I love the discs Pascal Roge did for Decca/London back inthe late'80s-early 90s.

 

My favorite piece of Classical music--The Ravel Piano Concerto in G, the middle Ballad movement (Adagio assai). ( Stop playing that, you're making me weep!) Many great recordings, my favorite is Arturo Micheangeli with the Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI 1957)

 

All of the Dutiot Ravel Orchestral recordings for Decca. One of my favorites is "Alborada Del Gracioso".

The Robert Casadesus "Complete Piano Music of Ravel"

 

Hindemith- "Mathis Der Mahler", and for piano, the "Four Temperaments".

 

Ditto on Milhaud's "Saudades Do Brazil" along with "Three Rag Caprices".

 

I like some of Arthur Honegger's stuff. "Symphony #2 for Strings and Trumpet". Also his lesser known piano pieces, in places they sound like Bill Evans playing out. Lovely!

 

The Russky dudes;

Shostakovich- The Symphonies, Piano Concertos and the modern "WTC" --Preludes and Fugues op87.

 

Igor-"Rite of Spring (can really hang you up the most)", "Firebird", "Petrouchka" (especially Pollini's landmark recording in the 70's)

 

Prokofiev--mostly his piano works. Sonata #7, Vision Fugitives. And Piano Concertos.

 

The Hungarian cats:

 

Bartok-all of his piano music, Piano Concertos 1-3, "Hungarian Sketches", "Concerto for Orchestra" (deep)

 

Kodaly-"Hary Janos suite", "Dances of Galanta"

 

That Debussy guy:

"Images", "Children's Corner", "Estampes", "La Mer", "Jeux" , all of his piano music.

 

I still get a charge out Andre Previn playing Gershwin's "Piano Concerto in F".

 

Last but not least, one of my all time favorite composers for the piano,

Federico Mompou (1893-1987) . Stephen Hough recorded a couple of discs on Hyperion devoted to Mompou...great!

[.......]

I love that Mompou record by Hough, beautiful. (I saw him play a Tchaikovsky concerto live the other week, wow)

For me the recording of Pierre Laurent Aimard playing the Ligeti etudes is really inspiring, but also a little frightening. And his recording of Messiaen's Vingt regards is pretty awesome.

And the piano duet version of the Rite of spring is worth a mention - I have the Ashkenazy and Gavrilov recording

[Dave Ferris]

I love that Mompou record by Hough, beautiful. (I saw him play a Tchaikovsky concerto live the other week, wow)

For me the recording of Pierre Laurent Aimard playing the Ligeti etudes is really inspiring, but also a little frightening. And his recording of Messiaen's Vingt regards is pretty awesome.

 

Yeah BB, Hough's a fellow Brit. I love his playing, so lyrical, and his mining of the lesser known repertoire.

 

PLA's playing is from another planet. He's just one of those guys that comes along maybe once every generation- like a Michael Brecker or a Chris Potter.. I need to pick up both the Ligeti and Messiaen.

[Mark Schmieder]

I am such a fan of Milhaud that I used his extremely challenging Clarinet Concerto (or maybe Sonato -- I forget since the score would have been reduced to piano anyway), as my Music School audition piece many years ago.

 

One of my first life lessons, as I was "supposed" to do the Weber Concertino like everybody else. They were not impressed by my 20th century leanings.

[Cygnus64]

Underrated 20th century British guys:

 

1. Gerald Finzi, practically unknown in America. (Clarinet Concerto, Violin Concerto)

2. Frederick Delius. Very unique (On hearing the first cuckoo in spring.)

3. William Walton. Symphony 1.

4. Britten. Very erratic but a master. (Frank Bridge variations, quartets and operas).

5. Tippett. Double Concerto

 

Americans

 

1. Walter Piston. Taught everybody! (Symphony #4, The Incredible Flautist).

 

2. William Schuman. Symphony #3, American Tryptich. No relation to Robert Schumann.

3. Elliot Carter. His early stuff is like Piston. Symphony #1.

4. Jacob Druckman. Prisms

5. Roger Sessions. Some of the hardest music ever written.

6. David Diamond. Rounds for String Orchestra.

7. Ned Rorem. Still composing at 80!

8. Howard Hanson, Symphony #2

 

Other countries

 

1. Lutoslawski- Concerto for Orchestra.

2. Zemlinsky- The Mermaid.

3. Franz Schmidt- The Book with 7 Seals.

4. Durafle-Requiem

5. Paul Paray= Joan of Arc.

 

 

[reidmc]

Good suggestions immediately above - another excellent Walton work is the viola concerto.

 

Other good symphonies not frequently heard:

 

Martinu Symphonies #3-6

Franz Schmidt Symphonies #3 and #4

 

Vaughan Williams #5 and #6 are criminally underplayed in the U.S.

[Cygnus64]

Franz Schmidt Symphonies #3 and #4

 

 

A real mystery as to why nobody knows this guy. Of any name in this thread, he is probably the least known, at least in the US.

 

Vaughan Williams

 

He has a lot of stuff that's underplayed. A surprising range, from the Pastoral to Modernist, he's a hard composer to label. Most think of him as the Lark Ascending guy, but the symphonies are brutal at times.

 

I think the whole British scene from 1900 to 1950 is vastly underrated and underplayed. I'm not sure why that is, maybe because much of it has a nationalistic theme. There's an extraordinary amount of great music in there. Elgar-Falstaff. I don't think anyone in the US ever does it.

[Mark Schmieder]

Many of us were upset when the revised Episcopal hymnal removed a lot of the Vaughan Williams music. It was considered "too challenging" for most congregants.

 

I first learned of Martinu while at Indiana University School of Music. They put on his Easter Passion, which I seem to recall was an opera but might have been a staged oratorio. I then began checking out his chamber works, which cover quite a range of styles and emotions. Definitely an overlooked Eastern European composer, most likely due to the Iron Curtain.

[jarrell]

We've wandered OT of lesser known and orchestral music, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway... Have to mention the Ravel concerto for left hand, a beautiful and very dramatic piece. Also "Music for Strings Percussion and Celeste" by Bartok (some LA TV station used a snippet of that for their late night movie theme music back in the 70's - how hip!). I really like most everything by Debussy, Ravel (they each wrote one string quartet, and if that's all they ever wrote, they would still be famous IMHO), Bartok (I especially like the 2nd piano concerto, also check out "The Wooden Prince"), Stravinsky (got to love the first three ballets; the first part of Petrushka is so alive; the neoclassical period doesn't have that fire in the belly for me, hmm actually haven't listened to his late serial stuff in many years), Berg (Wozzeck, Lulu and the Violin Concerto are outstanding, also check out the early piano sonata), Messiaen ( a lot of interesting organ music as well as piano and orchestral; saw his final opus the opera St. Francis and although long it was very interesting), Ligeti (the piano etudes are great, in addition to his orchestral music check out his choral music, too, I have a CD of his choral stuff that ranges from '46 to early 80's, great stuff) Lutoslawski (the Concerto for Orchestra is great; as is the string quartet; from Venetian Games on, his style became more avant garde, always interesting and musical); Berio and Boulez wrote a lot of interesting stuff too (Berio's Sinfonia and Boulez's 2nd piano sonata come to mind). Just heard Janacek's Glagolitic Mass recently, really nice piece (his operas are also interesting). Elliott Carter, check out his Concerto for Orchestra, Piano Concerto and String Quartets - he's still writing music at 100.

 

As we can see from the Coldplay thread, what you like or I like or anyone likes is all highly subjective, so if you're not familiar with it, just check it out. A lot of people listed a lot of great music in this thread, I know there's stuff I am not familiar with I'm going to check out, so thanks everybody!

 

OK, speaking of one hit wonders as we were in yet another topic recently, and I mean this in the nicest way, Carl and Gustav, I have to mention both Orff's Carmina Burana (interesting, maybe more rhythmic based perhaps influenced by Stravinski's rhythmic-cell approach a la Petrushka and the Rite of Spring; the idea behind the texts is very interesting too, plus you haven't lived 'til you hear the opening - talk about dramatic) and Holst's the Planets (well, Jupiter in particular)" - these guys aren't up there with Bartok or Stravinsky, but I particularly like these pieces.

 

Finally, 20th century music is now all music from the last century, yet in general it is still too modern for most people. Well I guess that is a topic for another discussion...

[Mark Schmieder]

I pick up anything I can find from Orff. Some hidden gems there, but hard to find. Holst is more spotty, but I particularly like his songs and folk music settings. Berg has a lot of great chamber music as well as orchestral and opera. Also hard to find.

[Mark Schmieder]

One of my favourites growing up was Hindemith, as he wrote so much for wind instruments.

 

I forget now whether it was Hindemith or Poulenc, but I think the former, who wrote the same sonato (or concerto? -- again, in high school and college I was primarily pairing up with a pianist using reduced scores), and challenged themselves to transcribe it into something musically meaningful for almost every instrument in the orchestra.

 

Not so well known, but Hindemith also wrote a lot of sacred music. We performed one of his masses (or maybe his only mass) in the university choir. Very Bach-influenced work (contrapuntal).

 

In fact, Hindemith was quite the scholar, and wrote a multi-volume series on Counterpoint, Harmony, Theory, etc.

[Cygnus64]

There's a list put out every year by American Orchestra Librarians that lists the top twenty most performed composers (not pieces unfortunately) by American Orchestras. The two 20th century guys who make the top ten: Ravel and Shostakovich. Copland is always close behind depending on year. Bartok doesn't usually crack the top 20, Prokofiev does.

[Dave Horne]

One of my favourites growing up was Hindemith, as he wrote so much for wind instruments.

 

I forget now whether it was Hindemith or Poulenc, but I think the former, who wrote the same sonato (or concerto? -- again, in high school and college I was primarily pairing up with a pianist using reduced scores), and challenged themselves to transcribe it into something musically meaningful for almost every instrument in the orchestra.

 

Not so well known, but Hindemith also wrote a lot of sacred music. We performed one of his masses (or maybe his only mass) in the university choir. Very Bach-influenced work (contrapuntal).

 

In fact, Hindemith was quite the scholar, and wrote a multi-volume series on Counterpoint, Harmony, Theory, etc.

 

I believe he wrote sonatas for just about every instrument. It's a great way to insure being performed.

 

I worked my way though his theory book and his exercise\composition book. It was an interesting exercise. I took a course where I was the only student and I never actually met my professor, I just mailed him the work. It's easy to write and sound like Hindemith if you follow all of his rules - and he's got lots of them.

 

I also remember having to analyze chords measuring (in a manner of speaking) the relative tension or dissonance. That was also a great way of looking at progressions.

 

From what I remember of Poulenc, I believe he didn't write pieces longer than six minutes or so. I don't know if that's true, but I remember that was always mentioned when his name came up.

 

Here's another name ... and I played one of his pieces which was originally for piano and voice (I believe) and was transcribed for piano and clarinet - Alec Wilder. I never hear his name and only know it because I performed a piece of his with a friend.