V-Piano in stock in SF Bay Area (Oakland)

[Mark Schmieder]

I stopped by leo's Pro Audio in Oakland CA today, and they just got in a Roland V-Piano!

 

It wasn't fully hooked up yet, and I didn't want to bother them as they're in the middle of rearranging the store and finishing up their annual inventory sale, but I thought I'd let people know that there is now a local one to try.

 

There is a story behind this one, but I'm not sure if it was told in confidence so will assume it was. Bottom line is it may not be full price (but it's near-mint condition).

[ProfD]

There is a story behind this one, but I'm not sure if it was told in confidence so will assume it was. Bottom line is it may not be full price (but it's near-mint condition).

OTOH, if they tell a potential buyer it was used at the Staples Center during MJ rehearsals, they might get full price anyway.

[SK]

There is a story behind this one, but I'm not sure if it was told in confidence so will assume it was. Bottom line is it may not be full price (but it's near-mint condition).

So, the first V-Piano with 'character'. Wonder what part isn't "mint"?

 

Not that I'll be buying it. Hope the "story" isn't too dramatic (like a fall from a virtual truck.)

[Mark Schmieder]

It was used once by a big-name artist. The concert was in SF. I thought the artist was local but maybe only the venue was local. It doesn't have a price tag yet so I don't know what the markdown is.

 

I don't think MJ was the artist as I have a LOT of inside information about that tour and what was being used by whom. And anyway, I'm pretty sure he said it was used locally vs. owned locally (though both may be true).

 

MJ died before the tour, so obviously didn't play in SF. :-)

[Song80s]

hoo boy

 

top secret stuff

 

 

 

[drawback]

wow yeah, especially all that inside information!

 

[Mark Schmieder]

They had it hooked up and ready to play today, and play I did!

 

After all the bad reviews here, I expected to hate it, but in fact I love this keyboard!

 

It has flaws, to be sure, and only has one sound that I like (The Classic Concert #1 or whatever it's called), but I feel overall that Roland has done a magnificent job, and wonder if this thing will be firmware-upgradable if they improve the algorithms later.

 

First, the action: I don't know if this is the exact same action as the RD700GX or just similar, so maybe I've made my peace with the texture, but I quite enjoyed playing it today and felt very confident on it. My only complaint is that the escapement does seem slow.

 

As for pedaling, this is where major improvements are still needed. The unacorda pedal did nothing except on the upper octave, as far as I could tell, and only on certain patches (there are 24 preset patches in total). The sostenuto pedal works magnificently, and the damper pedal is definitely continuous (I could hear its effect as I partially lifted the pedal and then partiall pushed it further down from mid-stop), but the overall sustain gets cloudy quickly. More work is needed.

 

In terms of the sound, I found it very even across the keyboard, with none of the mid-range honkiness that still plagues Pianoteq to a certain degree (although I could live long-term with Pianoteq as it is now -- remember that these are issues that even acoustic pianos face, so it's all a matter of taste).

 

The highest octave is convincing but a little too metallic, and the lowest octave loses a bit of heft. This is where I would hope to hear future improvements, as the mid-range is lovely.

 

I didn't care for the main Classic Piano #2; just the Classic Piano #1, and at that, I only liked the Stage and Concert variants. Everything else is expereimental, and interesting, but makes me realise why (besides weight/cost) those choices aren't found on real pianos.

 

You definitely feel like you are striking heavy strings when you select the Silver model. But I don't like the way it sounds, as it is too assertive and diminishes the blending of sympathetic vibrations. The Glass model is also convincing for what it is, but not satisfactory from a normal playing point of view, yet might work well in certain film contexts for atmospherics.

 

Well, that's all for now -- I only spent a half hour or so on this instrument. Bottom line is that Roland is onto something here, and a cheaper and improved Rev 2 might well be worth considering. This first generation version, unless it can be upgraded later, may be just for the rich and famous. :-)

[Dana.]

The highest octave is convincing but a little too metallic, and the lowest octave loses a bit of heft. This is where I would hope to hear future improvements, as the mid-range is lovely.

 

Interesting, given most of the criticism of the sound has been about the midrange.

[ProfD]

I didn't care for the main Classic Piano #2; just the Classic Piano #1, and at that, I only liked the Stage and Concert variants.

Well, folks have spent more than $6k for one sound in a less portable package.

[Mark Schmieder]

Right, it wasn't a criticism, just a comment. No need to infer that it's less valuable as a result; we don't use half the features of most of what we own. :-)

[Mark Schmieder]

The mid-range sounded phasey to me until I gave it a very slight touch of ambience (my inclination is always to run 100% dry when I try things). I was really surprised how that changed things. But I had to use so little that it didn't sound like reverb. Somehow that cleaned up my perception of phase problems in the mid-range.

[ProfD]

Right, it wasn't a criticism, just a comment. No need to infer that it's less valuable as a result; we don't use half the features of most of what we own. :-)

Wrong emoticon. I was kidding.

[Mark Schmieder]

No problem. I'm just used to people reading too much intent behind simple statements. :-)

[Mizu]

It's good to see people on this forum put the V-Piano through its paces. I had the opportunity to play one (albeit very briefly) at GC in NYC last week. I couldn't really focus on the sound too much (the place was a zoo) but I did like the silver string piano at first glance. The feel of the keyboard is a total winner, though - this thing felt *solid*, as opposed to springy, squishy, or whatever else passes as a weighted keybed these days. I've got a CP250 at home and I was happy with the feel of it before I touched the V-Piano. Now it just doesn't feel the same anymore...

[Song80s]

They had it hooked up and ready to play today, and play I did!

 

After all the bad reviews here, I expected to hate it, but in fact I love this keyboard!

 

It has flaws, to be sure, and only has one sound that I like (The Classic Concert #1 or whatever it's called), but I feel overall that Roland has done a magnificent job, and wonder if this thing will be firmware-upgradable if they improve the algorithms later.

 

First, the action: I don't know if this is the exact same action as the RD700GX or just similar, so maybe I've made my peace with the texture, but I quite enjoyed playing it today and felt very confident on it. My only complaint is that the escapement does seem slow.

 

As for pedaling, this is where major improvements are still needed. The unacorda pedal did nothing except on the upper octave, as far as I could tell, and only on certain patches (there are 24 preset patches in total). The sostenuto pedal works magnificently, and the damper pedal is definitely continuous (I could hear its effect as I partially lifted the pedal and then partiall pushed it further down from mid-stop), but the overall sustain gets cloudy quickly. More work is needed.

 

In terms of the sound, I found it very even across the keyboard, with none of the mid-range honkiness that still plagues Pianoteq to a certain degree (although I could live long-term with Pianoteq as it is now -- remember that these are issues that even acoustic pianos face, so it's all a matter of taste).

 

The highest octave is convincing but a little too metallic, and the lowest octave loses a bit of heft. This is where I would hope to hear future improvements, as the mid-range is lovely.

 

I didn't care for the main Classic Piano #2; just the Classic Piano #1, and at that, I only liked the Stage and Concert variants. Everything else is expereimental, and interesting, but makes me realise why (besides weight/cost) those choices aren't found on real pianos.

 

You definitely feel like you are striking heavy strings when you select the Silver model. But I don't like the way it sounds, as it is too assertive and diminishes the blending of sympathetic vibrations. The Glass model is also convincing for what it is, but not satisfactory from a normal playing point of view, yet might work well in certain film contexts for atmospherics.

 

Well, that's all for now -- I only spent a half hour or so on this instrument. Bottom line is that Roland is onto something here, and a cheaper and improved Rev 2 might well be worth considering. This first generation version, unless it can be upgraded later, may be just for the rich and famous. :-)

 

did you write a check for $5k or $6k ?

 

that's 80% of the discussion

 

No one is able to forecast the future

[reknab]

They have the V at the GC in San Francisco. It is connected to a pair of monitors and a sub woofer. The sound and feel is wonderful. I could play it all day. This has been there for at least a couple of weeks.

[timwat]

I played the one at GC San Francisco this week. I suppose my expectations were pretty high after as much discussion as we've seen here - and I was a bit let down by the unit.

 

It's built solidly, and it is refreshing to lean into a board and have it sit stone solid like a real piano. But for all the beauty of the action, I never really felt like I connected to the actual sound. It's difficult to describe or articulate why - and I didn't try to dive into the front panel and tweak any of the settings.

 

But I have to say what I was impressed with most was the solidity and the action - not really astounded or floored by the sound or a feeling of connectedness. Maybe it's me.

[Dave Ferris]

I suppose my expectations were pretty high after as much discussion as we've seen here - and I was a bit let down by the unit.....

 

But for all the beauty of the action, I never really felt like I connected to the actual sound. It's difficult to describe or articulate why .....

 

.... not really astounded or floored by the sound or a feeling of connectedness. Maybe it's me.

 

Probably not. It's not the real deal.

 

I put in about 2.5 hrs. of heavy practice today on technique....Chopin Etudes and a couple of the Godowsky LH studies on the Chopin Etudes. Later on tonight I went over to the Yamaha GT-2 Gran Touch Digital I have in our living room just to blow through some tunes. The thing felt like a toy.

[Dana.]

By way of comparison, has anyone played the Yamaha AvantGrand or A/B'd it against the V-Piano?

[SHaka40]

By way of comparison, has anyone played the Yamaha AvantGrand or A/B'd it against the V-Piano?

I haven't played either one of these 'boards yet, but I've heard nothing but great things about the Avant Grand. The V-Piano on the other hand seems more like a mixed bag (not really a surprise though, considering that Roland took a more risky/unproven/ambitious approach with the whole modelling thing). The reason that the Avant Grand hasn't received more buzz can almost certainly be chalked up to its price. Plus, it's size pretty much limits it to home, school, or other fixed-location applications. That's kind of ironic though, because two of the most often-mentioned complaints about the V-Piano are the price and the size/weight.

[Mark Schmieder]

Dave, I'm confused by what seem to be contrary statements?

 

The V-Piano isn't the real deal, and the Yamaha GranTouch Digital Grand is a toy?

 

At first it seems the Yammie made the Roland feel not-real in comparison, but then you end with a statement that modifies the Yammie, unless your intent was to refer to the Roland?

 

I'm glad I tried the Roland at Leo's vs. Guitar Centre, as I'm sure I had a better listening setup (Dynaudios).

[Dave Ferris]

 

The V-Piano isn't the real deal, and the Yamaha GranTouch Digital Grand is a toy?

 

At first it seems the Yammie made the Roland feel not-real in comparison, but then you end with a statement that modifies the Yammie, unless your intent was to refer to the Roland?

 

Mark, I wasn't comparing the GT-2 to the V.

 

I was just saying after putting the hours in on my Steinway yesterday (which I didn't specify but thought would be concluded by those that know me or read my sig line. Perhaps not...my fault for lack of clarity), my Yamaha GT-2 in my living room, which I generally feel is has close has you can get action wise in a DP to a real piano, did indeed feel and sound like a toy in comparison to my D.

 

I've never touched a V but have spent some time on Yamaha's newest offering the Avant. It feels very similar to what I have now with maybe a bit of a refined and updated sample and obvious superior sound system. Would I pay 12-14K or whatever they're asking for it? Not with deals like my friend just got on a '97 Kawai RX6 7'.

 

My post was a reaction to Tim's post about his overall disconnect with the instrument and his at a lost for words to describe his less than over the top feeling that some seem to be experiencing. I'm also sometimes at a loss for words when trying to describe touch and feel when playing an electronic keyboard vs an Acoustic.

 

I think I have a pretty decent idea of what DPs are about owning three of them-the GT-2 , CP300 & P120 and the hybrid S-90 Classic. For what they do and offer, portability wise, to gigging musicians like myself, they're great. They just don't compare, sound or feel to even a good well maintained upright like a Yamaha U-1, much less a small quality grand.

 

I'm assuming from what I've read from other Pianists the same holds true for the V.

 

The bottom line though, if ya dig it and you think it will inspire you to practice or play more often, go get one and get busy making music.

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Ah, sorry, I thought you had bought a V-Piano and spent 2.5 hours playing Chopin on it. :-)

 

I have most GUI features of the forum shut off, for speed, so don't usually see avatars and signatures. My bad.

[Mark Schmieder]

And for me, uprights are a better comparison point, as they are affordable (even after moving) and take up little space.

 

I often hear people say that a good digital is better than a good upright for a lot of reasons (even upright grands, which often have three strings and three pedals).

 

One rarely if ever gets the chance to compare side by side, so it's always good to hear feedback from those who have both.

[Dave Ferris]

No problemo my friend. I'm the one who left out that one small detail.

 

I sometimes think EVERYONE knows what I'm trying to say.

[SK]

I often hear people say that a good digital is better than a good upright for a lot of reasons (even upright grands, which often have three strings and three pedals).

Well, a good digital is better than a poor upright, and a good acoustic is better than any digital.

 

My one gripe of having had a Steinway at home was rarely being happy when I go out to play something else. But they're just tools, so I'm very grateful for decent DP's in public situations where an acoustic isn't there, or is poorly maintained or under volumed.

[Dana.]

For those who are interested, Keyboard's review of the V-Piano has been posted. Key Buy Award, best DP ever, etc.

 

V-Piano review

[timwat]

I guess not surprising (the Key Buy award, that is.) Dave's right on with his comparison of his D and his Gran Touch. I think I was expecting something very close to a real acoustic when in fact, the V-Piano is still a digital - albeit, perhaps the most progressive advance in digitals to date.

 

What's the old line - "The best of men are men at best" - adjusted for V-Piano - "The best of digital pianos are digital pianos at best."

[Mark Schmieder]

Ah, I see, different expectations.

 

I didn't go in expecting a real piano; just hoping for the best digital yet.

 

From there, I then decide if it's worth it, and then can I afford it. The answer to both questions, for me, is a resounding "no".

 

But that doesn't take away from my opinion that it's the best digital piano yet. :-)

 

So maybe we could all have a little fun saying what price we'd buy it at? :-)