Chords in New Standard Tuning

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've been experimenting with NST- Robert Fripp's New Standard Tuning- which goes C/G/D/A/E/G. All of my experimentation has been self-driven. I've figured out a host of chords, but wouldn't mind a bit of a hint now and again.

 

I was wondering if anyone was aware of any chord books or sheets to hasten my exploration of this tuning and deepen my understanding of it.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Danny,

 

The notes that comprise the chords will remain the same, so if you know what notes are in a given chord you'll be able to biuld chord frames. I'm sure that, just like so many other 'new' tunings, you'll find a group of common fingerings that, when slid up and down the neck, make the different chords. Probably only take you an hour or two to plot out a couple and find the whole pattern for standard majors, minors and sevenths.

 

Then you can post it here for the rest of us.

 

Bill

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh, I know the notes remain the same...but you know how it is, it would be nice to have a chordbook or sheet for reference.

 

I have figured out some chord shapes that work- especially some barre chords.

 

A question- is there a standard notation on this board for how to show something like that?

[Dannyalcatraz]

OK...here goes nothing- some Barre Chords in New Standard Tuning:

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F4____ ______3______ ______ ______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______4______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F4____ ______ ______ ______2______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______3______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______2______

 

F4____ ______ ______ ______3______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______2______3______

 

F4____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______2______ ______3______

 

F4____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F4____ ______ ______2______ ______3______

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F4____ ______ ______ ______3______ ______4

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F4____ ______ ______ ______3______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______ ______4______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

______C______G______D______A______E______G

F1

 

F2____1______1______1______1______1______1

 

F3____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

 

F4____ ______ ______3______ ______ ______

 

F5____ ______ ______ ______4______ ______

 

F6____ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hey, I must've missed this thread when you first posted these; cool, thanks! I'll hafta try out this Frippy NST, myself, or maybe a slightly down-tuned relative derivation thereof, perhaps going down by a whole-step all-across the 'board...

 

(That high-G shouldn't be too bad on a Les Paul, what with its shorter scale-length; but, I'd be doing my initial test-drive with a set of .011" through .050" strings, and where that shorter scale-length is more forgiving on the top-end of things, the low-strings can get a little floppy and muddy, PARTICULARLY with this batch of extra-low lows; striking a balance with the given gauges I'm using will be key... )

 

Now, what are you naming each of the above shown chords, given their respective notes and intervals? I realize that they're barre-chords and can thus be moved up and down the fretboard, changing their respective roots 'n' tonics; but, as-is, as-shown, whaddya callin' these grips?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hey, I must've missed this thread when you first posted these; cool, thanks! I'll hafta try out this Frippy NST, myself, or maybe a slightly down-tuned relative derivation thereof, perhaps going down by a whole-step all-across the 'board...

 

 

Now, what are you naming each of the above shown chords, given their respective notes and intervals? I realize that they're barre-chords and can thus be moved up and down the fretboard, changing their respective roots 'n' tonics; but, as-is, as-shown, whaddya callin' these grips?

 

You know, its funny- I don't really know.

 

I'm not strong on theory- I play mostly by ear. But when I fell for NST, I sat down with a published chord book and tried to find NST equivalents, cross referencing the notes composing the chords in the book with what I found on the NST-tuned guitar. I actually checked each one, then named it, and entered it in an appropriate file on my PDA. Each chord family got its own file.

 

This took months.

 

When I figured the barre chords out, I didn't bother trying to figure out what they were.

 

That's when I started trying to scour the net to find NST chordbooks and the like- even contacting Digital Global Mobile directly (http://www.dgmlive.com/)- and found that there aren't any.

 

Maybe I should convert my PDA files into a book. Hmmmmmmm...

[Caevan O’Shite]

Maybe!

 

I'll hafta try this on for size and see if I can't suss-out what these chords are (dependent on what the root is considered to be for any one of them; could even go with a pitch that isn't included). I'm too, too lazy to do it by visually figuring out what notes are represented there...

[Dannyalcatraz]

"Root" is the root of my problem.

 

I've always had difficulty determining the "root" of the chord...which is one reason why I'm leery of posting the non-barre chords I figured out. My name I assign a chord might not be what it really is.

[Griffinator]

"Root" is the root of my problem.

 

I've always had difficulty determining the "root" of the chord...which is one reason why I'm leery of posting the non-barre chords I figured out. My name I assign a chord might not be what it really is.

 

And for added fun, the "root" isn't always the lowest note in the chord...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Exactly- that's why I'd probably want someone to check my work before I ever published an NST chordbook.

 

Its one thing to be semi-famous, and another to be infamous (semi- or otherwise).

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Bert Lam's website has some Classical pieces using the NST...standard notation along with tab.

 

Bert Lams Sheet Music

 

I saw him play a few months ago and his guitar was the most amazing acoustic sound I've ever heard. He was in the League of Crafty Guitarists and later became a member of the California Guitar Trio.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hey, GREAT link!

 

I've seen CGT twice, the first time was, in a way, the best. They were on a tour at Borders with fellow LCGer Tony Geballe. I believe they were supporting their Pathways album. There were about 30 of us sitting in the store's cafe listening to them play, close enough to touch. Those were the days when they were all playing identical fanned-fret guitars.

 

One performance in particular lingers- they passed the lead, rhythm and a counterpoint from guitarist to guitarist, utterly seamlessly. Because the guitars were identical, their tone was too, so unless you were watching closely, you couldn't tell that they were doing it.

[d halfnote]

The best way to figure this out is to simply draw some fretboard diagrams & pencil in the position of notes in various chords.

You can explore various fingerings that way.

Don't forget to consider including open strings in some cases.

 

As to the question of tonics/roots, that often variable depending on context. The same notes could be considered a different chord depending on (1) different bass notes or (2) how they're used in a progression.

 

Playing alone, it could be as simple as what ever you devise as a bass line to a progression. In ensembles, it might be determined by what someone else plays.

 

I'd not really worry about that so much. If you make a "mistake" naming something & someone offers a different name for it what's the loss ? You'd actually learn something...even if it was that they didn't really know any better than you.

 

Remember the biggest holdback can be the fear of making a mistake, when actually making mistakes is part of learning to do anything.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, that's kind of what I did.

 

I sat down with a massive Standard tuning chord book and worked out something that seemed to have the same notes in it in on my NST tuned Dean Caddy.

 

I then copied the resultant shape into a diagram on my PDA.

 

It took months to do and currently takes up 12 separate Memo files in my PDA, 1 file for each chord family from A to G.

 

Remember the biggest holdback can be the fear of making a mistake, when actually making mistakes is part of learning to do anything.

 

I know, I know...but damnit- if I do it on "Teh Interwebb," the mistake is immortal!

[d halfnote]

Actually, that's kind of what I did.

 

I sat down with a massive Standard tuning chord book and worked out something that seemed to have the same notes in it in on my NST tuned Dean Caddy.

 

I then copied the resultant shape into a diagram on my PDA.

 

It took months to do and currently takes up 12 separate Memo files in my PDA, 1 file for each chord family from A to G.

 

 

 

I know modern tech methods seem better & are what many have grown up with but using a paper notebook this might've taken an afternoon (I've done it myself) & a few hours to experiment with fingerings to decide which seemed easier.

 

[quoting me, Halfnote]..."Remember the biggest holdback can be the fear of making a mistake, when actually making mistakes is part of learning to do anything."

 

 

I know, I know...but damnit- if I do it on "Teh Interwebb," the mistake is immortal!

 

At this point I presume yer joking...not only is that a cliche, but the Net's getting so jammed up with abandoned sites, blogs & twits on Twitter that it's gonna be harder & harder to find the "mistakes" of someone tagging a misnomer on a musician site...

I restate my suggestion that learning is better than worrying about making a mistake.

 

I once knew someone who would never admit not knowing something. They'd stay up all night to try to get the gist of something so the next day they could pretend they knew what they were supposed to know.

A co-worker, by comparison, would simply admit they didn't know something & ask questions to garner the info.

Who would you guess advanced faster ?

Who had an easier time ?

Admitting lack of knowledge while espressing interest in learning is only a problem for those with ego problems.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I used the PDA instead of a notepad because of size and portability issues. I was chauffering my Mom to a host of medical appointments, and didn't have the space for a full-sized notebook. The PDA was the perfect solution.

 

Plus, since its in electronic form, I can share those files electronically...

 

The reason it took so long was just because I had to take my time, not any format issues. I was dealing with chords I've never heard of (although with my taste in music, I've undoubtedly heard those chords).

 

As for the immortality of "Interwebb" idiocy, it may be buried in the noise of all the other internet stuff, but its still out there.

 

I can, for instance, still find a website containing the sole article I've ever posted in an electronic format...nearly a decade ago.

 

Heck- we all have our issues, don't we? Me? I hate to make a fool of myself unless I'm setting out to do that intentionally.

 

Still, I may just take your advice to heart and start posting some of those chords...

[Eric VB]

I've been experimenting with NST- Robert Fripp's New Standard Tuning- which goes C/G/D/A/E/G. All of my experimentation has been self-driven. I've figured out a host of chords, but wouldn't mind a bit of a hint now and again.

 

I was wondering if anyone was aware of any chord books or sheets to hasten my exploration of this tuning and deepen my understanding of it.

If it helps, a mandolin is tuned G-D-A-E. (Same as a violin.) There is also a 5-string version with a low C added: C-G-D-A-E. (Same as the low C on a viola.) You may find it helpful to check out some mandolin chord charts. You can expand them to take into account your extra string(s).

 

On mandolin I prefer open chords. As a warning, some of the 4-string shapes require long fingering stretches that may be uncomfortable/impossible at guitar scale.

 

Here's a little tip. In standard tuning most of the guitar strings are tuned in 4ths, e.g. the E up to the A is a 4th. The oddball is G up to B which is a major 3rd. In NST all of the strings are tuned in 5ths, e.g. A up to E. But going the opposite direction -- from a string to the one just above it -- you go down a 5th (standard) or down a 4th (NST). So the two are related. More precisely, some of your standard chord shapes will work if you use them "upside down" in NST. You just have to account for shapes in standard tuning that use the oddball interval. (In other words, shapes that use the G and B strings.)

 

Here's an example of a G major on mandolin:

E    3
A   2
D 0
G 0

Notice how this is upside down on the top 4 strings of guitar in standard tuning:

E
B
G 0
D 0
A   2
E    3

 

Knowing just a little theory and your way around the fretboard will help you a lot.

 

For example, say you want to play a C major chord. All we need are these three tones: root ©, major 3rd (E) and perfect 5th (G). How we choose to play those tones is the matter of voicing the chord.

 

On a guitar in standard tuning, the open C major is voiced as: C-E-G-C-E or R-3-5-R-3. The (A style) barre chord gives a different voicing for the same C major chord: C-G-C-E-G or R-5-R-3-5. So you can voice a chord however you want as long as all the chord tones (that you want) are present.

 

Now let's build a C major on your NST guitar. Several open strings are already chord tones: C-G-x-x-E-G. You could play just that and you would be playing a C major chord. To add the other strings you just need to bring the D string up to the next available chord tone (E on the 2nd fret) and similarly the A string (C on the 3rd fret). Altogether you have C-G-E-C-E-G or R-5-3-R-3-5.

 

Just as with standard tuning you can use subsets of voicings or "shapes" for new voicings. Looking at the bottom three strings of C major on NST you have R-3-5. This is a standard triad and one way a piano player may voice a major chord.

 

Moving up a string you have 3-R-3; you're missing the 5 so this may not be a useful voicing.

 

Another string up and you have 5-3-R. This is an unusual voicing because a piano player playing a standard inversion would voice it 5-R-3 (or even 3-5-R).

 

Finally, from the top string you have R-5-3. This is a bit unusual, too. (If we were talking 7th chords then I'd fret the low G at the 3rd fret and we'd have C-Bb-E or R-7-10. [Here I'm calling the E a 10 instead of a 3 because we're talking 7th chords]. If you play the D string open instead you get C-Bb-D or R-7-9, a simple C9 chord voicing [omitting the 3 and 5]. And maybe a little too muddy in that register.)

 

If this makes any sense, great! If not, maybe read a little bit about music theory until this starts making sense.

 

Or just have fun and experiment!

[Eric VB]

Next week, we look into voicing chords on my 8-string bass, tuned F#-B-E-A-D-G-C-F. Ok, maybe not.

[Eric VB]

Oh, another tip.

 

To learn your way around the fretboard you may want to practice scales. Just take the notes from standard tuning, write them down, and then chart them out on the NST fretboard

 

C major scale (one octave).

E
B
G   2 45
D   23 5
A    3 5
E

Which is C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C.

G
E
A   23
D   23 5 7
G      5 7
C

(Note: this would be easier to play with open strings equivalent to the notes at the 7th fret, but then this would not be a movable pattern.)

 

Or even

G
E
A
D      5 7 910
G      5 7 910
C

(Where those are "10"s, or 10th fret.)

[Dannyalcatraz]

Wow- prolific AND helpful!

 

Thanks, man!