Two keyboard players in a band.

[Blue JC]

I would love to play with another keyboard player but I'm not holding my breath. Bands around here are lucky to have one keyboard player. That's why I sub so much. Two keyboard players would be an embarrassment of riches.

 

You would need a lot of real estate on stage for the gear and to satisfy the territorial claims of each player. That's why we get there early: to stake our claim.

[Al Coda]

Unless your band is touring nationally AND making big bucks, two keyboard players doesn't make sense to me.

 

That´s absolutely right.

But touring national and international doesn´t mean you´d need 2 keybd.-players. So, it depends on the music.

 

And,- if it´s not your band, but you are a keybd-player, that doesn´t mean you decide anything. No one cares on what you want or not.

So, if you´d get an offer to go on tour w/ a succsessful band for a fee of 3.000-5.000.- bucks a week or 800.- bucks or more per concert, the half for a rehearsal day and off-day and some per diems,- don´t tell me, you won´t do it because you fear your parts clash w/ the guitar players ones or because you have no intention to prepare the parts been worked out already by an arranger.

And don´t tell me these gigs do not exist,-they do !

 

It can happen to any good keybd.-player just by a recommendation and totally unexpected to get such an offer. It´s good to be prepared for any teamwork.

Best is you can do both,- playing w/ smaller bands as also larger ones w/ 2 keybd.-players.

 

If you´ve never done it before you eventually get such an offer, your probably lost because you don´t know how it works without coming into conflicts w/ someone or something.

 

Why is it a prob to play w/ 2 keybd-players?

There are so much bands without keybd.-players but w/ 3 guitar players and it works too.

If I´ve ever found real egos, these were guitar players, not keyboard players,- or lead singers b.t.w. and sometimes especially female ones.

 

What happens to brass and string sections,- is there anyone w/ a shouted demand to be the only one trumpet player or the only one sax player or can there only one violin exist ? No !

 

If there is such a musician, he/she simply cannot play in a section, that´s all.

 

You won´t find any of these characters in a professional working band because they get fired in the auditions or during rehearsals.

 

So, if you don´t like to do it, don´t do it and see what happens to your career after some years.

 

There is the chance to form an own band, to be the leader and trying to get this running in a professional way including booking, management, all logistics incl. gear rentals, hotel rooms and so on,- and eventually there´s the lucky circumstance it will work for some years. But if anyone wants to survive by playing music in 1st place (no backup job!),- that´s another story!

 

"who plays the solos ?"- what an unimportant question!

 

Musicians better get no probs and conflicts among each other, - there will be enough conflicts w/ the non-musicians,- managers, tech-managers, tour-nmanagers and sometimes even w/ your own techs because they are payed by the others mentioned above.

 

Have in mind, the non-musicians hope for the conflicts the musicians have among each other. It´s somewhat of a psychological game. They know,- musicians want to perform, to show what they can do,- how good they are. They trust on this exhibitionism!

 

Musicians have to work with another, not against another.

That´s the most important rule to survive it this biz.

 

A.C.

 

 

 

[Outkaster]

Unless your band is touring nationally AND making big bucks, two keyboard players doesn't make sense to me.

 

That´s absolutely right.

But touring national and international doesn´t mean you´d need 2 keybd.-players. So, it depends on the music.

 

And,- if it´s not your band, but you are a keybd-player, that doesn´t mean you decide anything. No one cares on what you want or not.

So, if you´d get an offer to go on tour w/ a succsessful band for a fee of 3.000-5.000.- bucks a week or 800.- bucks or more per concert, the half for a rehearsal day and off-day and some per diems,- don´t tell me, you won´t do it because you fear your parts clash w/ the guitar players ones or because you have no intention to prepare the parts been worked out already by an arranger.

And don´t tell me these gigs do not exist,-they do !

 

It can happen to any good keybd.-player just by a recommendation and totally unexpected to get such an offer. It´s good to be prepared for any teamwork.

Best is you can do both,- playing w/ smaller bands as also larger ones w/ 2 keybd.-players.

 

If you´ve never done it before you eventually get such an offer, your probably lost because you don´t know how it works without coming into conflicts w/ someone or something.

 

Why is it a prob to play w/ 2 keybd-players?

There are so much bands without keybd.-players but w/ 3 guitar players and it works too.

If I´ve ever found real egos, these were guitar players, not keyboard players,- or lead singers b.t.w. and sometimes especially female ones.

 

What happens to brass and string sections,- is there anyone w/ a shouted demand to be the only one trumpet player or the only one sax player or can there only one violin exist ? No !

 

If there is such a musician, he/she simply cannot play in a section, that´s all.

 

You won´t find any of these characters in a professional working band because they get fired in the auditions or during rehearsals.

 

So, if you don´t like to do it, don´t do it and see what happens to your career after some years.

 

There is the chance to form an own band, to be the leader and trying to get this running in a professional way including booking, management, all logistics incl. gear rentals, hotel rooms and so on,- and eventually there´s the lucky circumstance it will work for some years. But if anyone wants to survive by playing music in 1st place (no backup job!),- that´s another story!

 

"who plays the solos ?"- what an unimportant question!

 

Musicians better get no probs and conflicts among each other, - there will be enough conflicts w/ the non-musicians,- managers, tech-managers, tour-nmanagers and sometimes even w/ your own techs because they are payed by the others mentioned above.

 

Have in mind, the non-musicians hope for the conflicts the musicians have among each other. It´s somewhat of a psychological game. They know,- musicians want to perform, to show what they can do,- how good they are. They trust on this exhibitionism!

 

Musicians have to work with another, not against another.

That´s the most important rule to survive it this biz.

 

A.C.

 

 

 

Well that was helpful.

[mate stubb]

 

Personally I would hate to play with another keyboard player -- no need to be even more of a role player than I already am, and we'd have to work out who's taking the solos, who's playing which sound...no thanks.

 

When I was a young fire pisser and playing as many notes as I could, I would have agreed with this too.

 

But now I find it depends mostly on how good the musicians involved are. I played a wedding a year ago for a musician friend and we had a big jam. I took my Nord Stage and another guy brought his B-3. Man did that band sound full. All the guitar and bass players were turning around and smiling at the sound wall of keyboard goodness.

[Outkaster]

 

Personally I would hate to play with another keyboard player -- no need to be even more of a role player than I already am, and we'd have to work out who's taking the solos, who's playing which sound...no thanks.

 

 

 

When I was a young fire pisser and playing as many notes as I could, I would have agreed with this too.

 

But now I find it depends mostly on how good the musicians involved are. I played a wedding a year ago for a musician friend and we had a big jam. I took my Nord Stage and another guy brought his B-3. Man did that band sound full. All the guitar and bass players were turning around and smiling at the sound wall of keyboard goodness.

 

Thats what I am talking about.

[RABid]

I played with another keyboard player for a while. We did a lot of dance music. His dream rig would be a grand piano and a B3. My dream rig is a stack of symths. He spent a lot of time practicing jazz and classical piano. I was trained in classical piano but by then was focusing on synth orchestration and leads. We are very different in style and focus so it worked pretty well. He did piano and organ solos and I did mostly synth solos as well as covering harmonica and horn/wind/string solos. It worked well and having only one guitarist in the band helped.

 

The sax man in my band play keys, thankfully on only few tunes we perform. Unfortunately, he has rather poor insight regarding patch selection and I frequently have to remind him not to be redundant with the sound I'm using. He also feels he must make even the most delicate part (e.g., a high string line) sound "big" by playing it as an octave or holding down a low bass note. He just doesn't get it. He also makes frequent mistakes. I recall on this one tune, which had minimal keys on the recording, he insisted on doubling the same part as me (again using a similar sound), but he played it so poorly I actually stopped playing the song with the band. Everyone in the band yelled at him not to play but he would not listen. God love him, hes a monster sax player (and a life-long friend), but every time he walks near the keys, I cringe.

 

You should show up at practice with a sax sometime. Double a few of his parts and maybe play an octave below. Then discretely let him know that his keyboard parts sound as good as your sax parts.

 

We do have a lot of white peoples' church with the wrong kind of organ and no rhythm section. Those folks couldn't find a backbeat with a bloodhound. ...

 

Posts like this are always good for a laugh. The music genres that equate a good backbeat to quality are what, Rock, Rap and Dance? Lots of quality there. Jazz, classical, even African tribal rhythms and music from the Middle East and Far East do not depend on back beat. But, this is a topic for another thread.

 

 

[wmp]

But now I find it depends mostly on how good the musicians involved are. I played a wedding a year ago for a musician friend and we had a big jam. I took my Nord Stage and another guy brought his B-3. Man did that band sound full. All the guitar and bass players were turning around and smiling at the sound wall of keyboard goodness.

Thats what I am talking about.

I was about to use those exact words. You beat me to it because I got side tracked by a phone call.

 

We do have a lot of white peoples' church with the wrong kind of organ and no rhythm section. Those folks couldn't find a backbeat with a bloodhound. ...

Posts like this are always good for a laugh.

I'm glad I didn't offend everybody. I meant no disrespect to white people, or music or instruments that I'm not inclined to play myself. Ave Maria is beautiful, but my favorite church music does have a backbeat.

 

If I want it, I guess I'm going to have to get off my lazy butt and make it happen. So I'm off to listen to a keyboard player or two and see if this little bar will pay me to rehearse there on Tuesday nights.

 

[mate stubb]

The music genres that equate a good backbeat to quality are what, Rock, Rap and Dance? Lots of quality there. Jazz, classical, even African tribal rhythms and music from the Middle East and Far East do not depend on back beat. But, this is a topic for another thread.

 

 

Well, add gospel to that! The "white people clap on 1 and 3" bit is a cliche, but has lots of truth. The church I grew up in was a northern Baptist church that was comfortable with traditional music, had a nice pipe organ, etc.

 

Every so often the choir got a hankerin' to do a gospel number, but it was just so stiff that I would become very uncomfortable. My mother, a lifelong music teacher and choir member, just could not understand my reaction. She would fish for compliments and I would struggle to supply them.

[zephonic]

Like Herbie Hancock supposedly said:

 

"If it doesn't swing, why bother?"

 

Words to live by.

 

[RABid]

 

Well, add gospel to that! The "white people clap on 1 and 3" bit is a cliche, but has lots of truth. The church I grew up in was a northern Baptist church that was comfortable with traditional music, had a nice pipe organ, etc.

 

Every so often the choir got a hankerin' to do a gospel number, but it was just so stiff that I would become very uncomfortable. My mother, a lifelong music teacher and choir member, just could not understand my reaction. She would fish for compliments and I would struggle to supply them.

 

It is hard to classify gospel anywhere. Anyone should listen to Sounds of Blackness: The Evolution Of Gospel. It has everything, with and without backbeat. Some of it was crossover to RnB/Pop radio in the early 80's and some of it is pure choir. I love their version of "I'll Fly Away". But, thinking about it, even some very old classical has a backbeat. I've played some Hungarian Rhapsodies that could have been the pre-curser to Rock and Roll.

 

Just remember, the need for a backbeat turned Beethoven's 5th Symphony into "A Fifth of Beethoven".

[Cloud_9]

Ah, it is so lonely being an antagonistic, but so much fun fun fun...

I think you missed the spelling and the joke. That's ok, my humor is often mistaken for hostility.

 

yup, missed the spelling but not the joke....

[Suppport Guy]

Three words...OK...two words and a letter:

 

"E Street Band"

[King Julien]

I'm off to see the Sydney band The Hands next week for my birthday. Jayson, check out their myspace site for some inspiration.

http://www.thehandsmusic.com/

 

Two brothers play tasty soulful B3 and Clav backed by a rhythm section.

 

I can't wait.

[Outkaster]

Three words...OK...two words and a letter:

 

"E Street Band"

 

Exaclty and so underated, even among keyboard players.

[Phil Aiken]

I've played with another keyboardist twice recently as part of a recurring semi-annual charity event. I had never done so before and I have to say it has been really great. It does not hurt that he is a total badass of a player and an extremely gracious guy.(Shown here on a white B-3 w/ 4 Leslies!!!!)

 

 

Mostly the division of labor was that he played organ and I played piano, although we switched it up on a few songs.

 

 

 

[Morizzle]

Like Herbie Hancock supposedly said:

 

"If it doesn't swing, why bother?"

 

Words to live by.

 

"Rock it" doesn't swing. At all.

[Phil Aiken]

Like Herbie Hancock supposedly said:

 

"If it doesn't swing, why bother?"

 

Words to live by.

 

 

 

 

"Rock it" doesn't swing. At all.

 

Depends on what one means by "swing". I think in context what he may have meant is "groove".

 

[Phred]

I'm off to see the Sydney band The Hands next week for my birthday. Jayson, check out their myspace site for some inspiration.

http://www.thehandsmusic.com/

 

Two brothers play tasty soulful B3 and Clav backed by a rhythm section.

 

I can't wait.

 

Youtube clip:

[Outkaster]

Nice stuff. It is ok. I dont like the song so much but they sound good.