Oh No!!! Not another amp advice question!!

[Eric Jx]

I'm a keyboard player in a 4 piece rock band (drum, bass, gtr, keys).

 

We are on the verge of landing our first gig in a small pub.

So far, we've been playing in a practice studio, and I've been using the amp that the studio provides for my sound.

 

Now I'm considering picking up an amp for our gig as I don't want to put my trust in the getting good sound quality from my synths running through the PA system.

 

I've got about $600 I'm looking to spend. Someone recommended the Roland 550. I'd like to know what others think of that Amp, and what other companies I should be considering.

[seanmmooney]

Hi I am loving my acoustic Image CodaR amp but I'm not sure it would be right for your gig (I'm playing jazz gigs these days with acoustic instruments trying for as natural a piano sound as possible) If you can stretch your funds a bit and are after just an amp and not PA speakers check out the Traynor K4--I have used one of these with a louder Rock band and it worked great! I quite liked the addition of the dual outs and ability to take a monitor feed.

[ITGITC]

Eric,

 

The roland is fine for synths.

 

For piano you may want something more accurate. When you're ready to spend more, think about a stereo power amp, two good-sounding speakers, and a small mixer.

 

Good luck,

 

Tom

 

 

[SK]

For synths maybe, but for the piano/organ sounds of keyboards, like ITGITC - I can't recommend the Roland amp.

[timwat]

I'm a former Roland KC series owner - used the small 100s, the 300s and the 500s. The 550 is a noticeable improvement over the old 500, but to my ears is still pretty colored - juiced in the low and high end and confused in the all-important midrange.

 

Like many here I went the way of the self-powered PA speaker. Your budget precludes the really high-end solutions (as mine did), so suggestions like the ElectroVoice 360sxa and JBL EON G2 are too pricey, even used. But seems like everyone is making these powered PA speakers nowadays, at every budget level.

 

You might consider an older (used?) Ver. 1 Mackie SRM450 (the 350 doesn't develop enough bass), a Peavy PM12 or 15, a Carvin LM12a, Tapco Thump or a Behringer 212a. These are all self-powered, plastic housing, pole-mountable PA speakers that will give you much truer keyboard sound for the dollar than the Roland, and possibly most KB amps out there. I haven't seen the Traynor anywhere, much less played through one, so can't comment there - but I've not found a KB amp that presents the full picture from top to bottom as balanced as these self-powered PA boxes do.

 

They won't sound as nice as the EV, or QSC's self-powered speaker (which I hear rules over all of the others - but is over 60 lbs.), but IMHO you'll be happier than with the kb amp.

 

Even if you need to purchase as small mixer (depends how many boards you use), good quality for small format mixers couldn't be less expensive nowadays. Mackie, Yamaha, Tapco, Peavy, Behringer - everyone makes several models now at every price range.

 

 

[bhodaway10]

I have the Roland amp. I wouldn't recommend it - you're going to buy twice. If you have $600, buy one Eon (or another powered speaker) and save money for the second one for stereo use. Check craigslist. Most powered speakers like these have a mini mixer on the back that would work for you until you get more money.

 

B.

 

 

 

[Aidan]

Another vote for the Mackie 450s. I know some people here are a little cool about them, but my piano sound has always been good through them and there's plenty of spare headroom for most purposes. A bit on the heavy side, though. If you can afford them, the newer mk2 versions are about 14lb lighter each, which is a bonus. But I haven't heard any feedback on these new ones yet.

[NoahZark]

I bought a KC-550 and almost immediately came to regret it (for precisely the reasons that ITGITC and SK mention above -- i.e., it just doesn't reproduce a quality piano or organ sound). I've since moved to a Motion Sound KP200s, and, although that sounds much better, it's too underpowered for my needs. Still, if you can find a used one, you might be able to grab it for just a little bit more than your stated $600 budget. Alternatively, I agree that the powered speaker route would do you well. I would bet that, if you searched hard, you could find a pair of used SRM450s (v.1) for around your price or just a bit more.

 

Noah

[SK]

Of keyboard amps, the Motion Sound's sound best but are underpowered, like Noah said.

 

If I was in a rock band and had to have an amp (as opposed to a powered or unpowered speaker) I'd get the Traynor K4. It's not as pleasing a sound as the Motion Sound, but has loud, clean power to spare with decent midrange. Much better than the Roland amps.

[Eric Jx]

Thanks for the input.

 

A few of you claim that the roland might be ok for synth sounds, but is inferior when reproducing piano sounds. It turns out for a number of our songs, I do use a piano patch.

 

A follow up question:

How does everyone feel about running the keyboards through the same PA with the vocals? We have 3 singers.

 

 

[timwat]

How does everyone feel about running the keyboards through the same PA with the vocals? We have 3 singers.

 

 

A. If a good soundman is running FOH, cool.

B. If "no" to A. above, I'm turning my powered PA speaker to eleven.

[jimmymio]

I would run your keys through the house but also have onstage monitoring. I too am a fan of the powered speakers. There is a new version of the SRM 450 so i imagine you could get a new original version 450 in your price range. Also I would add Yamaha to the ones already mentioned. I wouldn't go smaller than a 12" for the woofer.

JP

[Jamiel]

I have been running my three keys (Hammond, Micro Korg, and yamaha p120) through a personal mixer, then send master to the DI's/PA and use my control room for my JBL EON 15 G2. and I get told so often by soundmen "there's no need for that... we have a great monitoring system"..

and at that I laugh, and say "... I'm sure it's lovely. but I don't need a monitor, I need a leslie, got one?"

 

My JBL has treated me very well, and oddly enough I run left hand bass, and it's kept up with me pretty well. and that thing is STURDY AS HELL! it's probably the best investment I've made... other then every other piece of music gear I've bought ever. haha

 

I used to play in a band with 2 keys. me and some other guy. he had a nord electro 2 and triton and Roland 550. I have Hammond XK-1 Yamaha P120 and Microkorg running through behringer personal mixer to my JBL EON G2. and I'll be damned if my organ sound doesn't just kick some ass. but then again his rhodes.. (mostly due to the nord) is sooooooooo niiiiiice.

[Gismo Recording]

I really like my Barbetta Sona 31.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I'm another fan of the JBL EON series, I play a lot of acoustic piano (and a lot of bass guitar sound). At your budget, I'd start with a single one of the EON 15 G2, and plan to add a second one later.

If I didn't do a lot of bass, I would have considered a pair of the 10's. The 15's are only 46 lb each, and there is a small 3 channel mixer built in, plus a balanced output that you can use to feed a house system. The mixer hss two balanced line level ins and a third that is switchable for mic or line level.

 

Tapco makes a lower priced 15" system that they call a Thump. But I wanted the sound to be closest possible to what the keyboards are generating. I'm using a Kurzweil K2661 and PC3X.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

[Eric Jx]

So if I'm feeding my keyboards through a mixer and out to the house PA, I could get by with only one power speaker for monitoring purposes. Right?

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Eric - I have done so. I do personally like to use stereo monitoring, especially on organ sounds with simulated Leslie. Of course, if the house system is single channel, a single channel monitor will come the closest to what the audience is hearing.

 

I'm usually playing in small enough venues that I can use the JBLs for mains, and a pair of 10" lower priced powered PAs for my stage monitors. Having two of each gives me maximum versatility for minimum cost (although I do still plan to eventually get a pair of the 10" JBLs and sell the lower priced units that I have).

 

Jim

 

[Ed Coury]

I'd get the Traynor K4. It's not as pleasing a sound as the Motion Sound, but has loud, clean power to spare with decent midrange.

You won't get the stereo seperation provided by two powered speakers, but the taste of stereo provided by such a small and versatile unit is nice.

[mate stubb]

Few people actually LIKE the Roland or Peavey keyboard amps.

 

They merely tolerate them because it was easier to just buy it than to chase down viable alternatives.

[Moog_Man]

Has anyone tried the new axl keyboard amp? It definitely wins in the looks department though its only 100 watts.

[mate stubb]

It looks kinda vintage cool, and I could see playing electric piano or clav through it.

 

But 100W and 1 12" cannot reproduce acoustic piano.

 

My own rig is 1200W stereo by comparison. That's not so that I can play at deafening levels - it's so the midrange and highs don't get squeezed when I play a low bass note, or the sharp transient attacks of piano and synth sounds are not squashed.

[bhodaway10]

Hmm....I never saw the Tapco units. 15's? Made by Mackie? 36 lbs? Has anybody compared them to the Mackie 450 V2? They're seem to be very affordable.

 

Most people that have used the Traynor K4 tell me there is little to no stereo separation. The KP500SN should have decent stereo seperation w/ decent wattage.

 

Steve from Speakeasy supposedly has reconditioned Peavey PR15 speakers w/ new crossover, New speakers & redone for 3way operation.

 

B.

 

 

 

 

[Moonglow]

Give Barbetta a whirl to. I use an SE-32. It has four channels, is relatively lightweight, and very loud. Here's a link:

 

http://www.barbetta.com/html/Live/Sona_32/sona_32.html

[bhodaway10]

Moonglow,

 

Do you use two of these?

 

B.

 

 

[Discotheque]

Hi all... some comments and questions about amplification. I recently tried the Traynor K4 in a music store (in mono and "stereo")... the stereo does make a much nicer and warmer sound IMO... and the mids, highs, and lows seemed good. The amp had some buzzing when I played high in the register with a middle rootless left hand voicing... dunno if it was that particular amp or if they're all like that.

 

Question: since I WILL be getting the new Rhodes... would this possibly be a good hybrid amp to get, seeing as the old rhodes instruments were designed to be played through tube guitar amps and the Traynor K4 has a tube preamp option? Or would powered PA speakers sound good with a rhodes as well as a stage piano? I realize this is speculation, and I'm gonna try them, just wondering what your thoughts are.

 

Also, in my area the PA speakers recommended to me by the clerk was the Yorkville NX550P, so was wondering if anyone had some personal experience with these and/or the Traynor K4?

[ITGITC]

Discotheque,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I had a Fender Rhodes in the seventies. I played it through a Fender Bandmaster head and a cabinet with two JBL 15" woofers and a couple of tweeters. It sounded great.

 

I don't know if the sound you want is going to be had with a hybrid amp. Moe and a few of the guys here know more than I, but I believe that the distortion/growl/body/warmth you are looking for needs to be generated in an all-tube design. The high-voltage power tubes seem to have just as much to do with getting this sound as the preamp tubes.

 

My advice to you is, when you get your new Rhodes, take it to the store and try various amplifiers and powered speakers until you find the system that sounds the best to your ears. Crank it up to the volume you expect to be playing.

 

Forums are great for some things - but this is not one of them particularly.

 

Your best bet is to eliminate as many variables as possible by taking your Rhodes to the store - or better yet, trying out the amp at a gig.

 

Another possiblilty is a rack system with a good preamp designed for the Rhodes, a strong power amp, and a couple of good-sounding speakers. Remember, the original Rhodes (Suitcase model) had a stereo amp with "Stereo Vibrato" that would pan between the left & right speakers. This was a signature sound on tunes like "You Are The Sunshine Of My Life". Maybe Speakeasy Vintage Music will have a preamp that will meet your needs. I'm sure others here have suggestions for alternatives.

 

Remember, the amplification system is every bit as important as the keyboard itself in the overall product. Don't buy an expensive, good-sounding keyboard and mate it with a cheap, underpowered amplifier/speaker system.

 

You don't want to buy twice.

 

Tom

 

[bloodyMary]

Few people actually LIKE the Roland or Peavey keyboard amps.

 

They merely tolerate them because it was easier to just buy it than to chase down viable alternatives.

 

he-he, true. I have a Peavey amp, and absolutely have it. Gonna try to fry it at a gig next week so I get more motivation to replace the amp with something decent.

 

Single powered speaker should be good enough for stage monitor.

[ikeaman]

hi eric

lately ive been using a tiny alesis mixer and a pair of SRM450's. i place it behind the band. it works well and it cuts through everything. i have a few vids on youtube of this setup and you can hear how it sounds. i did a college gig about a month ago playing some fusion. it was in the college theater and i gave the sound guy a LR out from my mixer. he didnt bother putting my through the main desk because it was loud enough .

guitar player was pretty loud but i could still be heard.

 

i used to have a couple of peavey powered speakers but they were too heavy so bought the mackies. im now wondering if i had a pair of those bose pole things...would they be as loud? anyway im happy with my setup and i can hear myself! here is the link :

 

www.youtube.com/jondimac

 

vids 1-4 has this setup

im playing a roland jd800 / m-audio pro keys 88sx as a controller only >> midied to a muse receptor / nord lead 1 on top of a korg cx3 organ.

 

...and vid 7 (me and a bass player) also employ this setup..even his bass and ableton live pc all go through my mixer (warning..keytar in this vid!).

my keytar is midied to a roland xv5050 module and various gtr pedals.

 

hope you find the right setup for you.

 

im pretty open ..ill play through anything as long as i can hear myself comfortably. good luck

 

ikeaman

[wineandkeyz]

Most people that have used the Traynor K4 tell me there is little to no stereo separation. The KP500SN should have decent stereo seperation w/ decent wattage.

 

I've owned a K4 since shortly after they were released, and I've been quite pleased with it. And I disagree with the statement above. While the K4 doesn't have the stereo separation you can get from two separate speakers, you do get a bit of separation that adds life to stereo patches and Leslie sims.

 

And the tube preamp on Channel 1 kicks some serious hindparts. I use the 4th Voice position (Organ) for my VR-760, which sounds awesome, but also adds some nice color to the VR's electric piano tones.

 

The new Motion Sound MAY have better stereo separation, but it only has 2 input channels, versus 3 on the K4. And AFAIK, it doesn't have a tube preamp or ground lift on the direct outs.

[Richard Hastings]

I use the Motion Sound KBR-3D. The sound is very clear and I like having the Leslie-type thingy on a separate channel. It's 2 amps in one. I have seen used ones on ebay in your price range. I used this amp the other day with a large big band and it had plenty of power. For rock gigs probably need 2 though. Good luck!