scottasin Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 just saw this on a hammond forum, apparently there is an italian company making new organs with... TONEWHEELS!! Probably not as portable as your average nord, but damn, it sounds good Klonk A look inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 http://youtube.com/watch?v=LR8ETMoQMhU&feature=related The hamichord w/ a VB3 1.2 included, The write up in the notes answered some questions I had: >> This instrument is basically an organ controller with two waterfall keyboards and all the traditional controls you'll find on a Hammond console organ, including the preset keys. There's an industrial PC inside running WinXP Embedded, practically one of those computers that drive industrial machinery and robots... so as you can guess it's stable and reliable, it boots up in less than 40 secs, is completely noiseless (no moving parts inside) and has a write-protected SSD drive. The two sections (controller and computer) are managed separately, so you can choose to just use the controller part for MIDI outputs with no need to boot the computer. When you have to turn it off, just switch it off on the rear panel or pull the plug! It ships with Native Instruments B4 II preinstalled, but this particular item has been loaded with VB3 1.2, a special "Hamichord Edition" that will be soon distributed as an optional upgrade for the Hamichord or as a stand-alone virtual instrument. << Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicale Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Leave Hammonds up to Hammond Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Leave Hammonds up to Hammond "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 +1 on that. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Leave Hammonds up to Hammond Regards Hammond? There is no Hammond. Oh. Perhaps you meant SUZUKI, who bought up the Hammond name awhile back and who has no legacy connection to the real company besides that. No thanks. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Maybe he meant Hammond still lives because Mr. Manji Suzuki the head of Suzuki, who is a big fan of the Hammond organ, wanted to keep the Hammond organ alive and growing. He may have bought the name, but he and his company are doing more than just sitting on it. Maybe all the efforts by Suzuki and the other companies will push them all to keep getting closer to the original in all aspects while still offering a variety of features and options for those who need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The best Hammond clone is the one that satisfies your needs as a player. For me, I need dual manuals, pedals, the controls set-up like a B3, a half-moon switch, a real Leslie output, a real expression pedal, and it has to look like a Hammond on stage (yes, looks are important). So for me, the XK3 / XK System is a no-compromise solution. Plus it sounds great. I used it exclusively on the new organissimo record, which we're mixing next week. I defy anyone to tell me it doesn't sound like a real tonewheel Hammond. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I welcome Suzuki helping to keep the Hammond name alive with their instruments, but dispute that they should be the only ones doing it. We have more and better clones now than ever. If not for the other players ruthlessly pushing Suzuki, we might not have the XK-3C, or even the XK system at all. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Maybe, but I look at it more like Hammond is pulling the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fortner Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 mate_stubb wrote: Hammond? There is no Hammond. Oh. Perhaps you meant SUZUKI, who bought up the Hammond name awhile back and who has no legacy connection to the real company besides that. I respectfully disagree. I know the guys at Hammond-Suzuki USA, and they have a lot of respect and outright reverence for the Hammond legacy. I also know that the Japanese parent lets them run as a pretty much autonomous company. Whether anyone thinks their clonewheel organs are better than another company's is an entirely valid matter of debate, and I certainly can understand anyone being skeptical after the XB-2 years. Their stuff is a lot better now, though. I've gigged a ton with the Leslie 3300, and it's a great road Leslie for modern times. Though expensive, the New B-3's key contact system is a very ambitious piece of electrical engineering, and really does duplicate the keyboard response and behavior of the original B-3. And I find that the XK series drawbar-for-drawbar definition really works well for pumping through a real rotary speaker. I'm reviewing the new XK-3C for the July issue, and I'm looking forward to hearing the improvements in Leslie simulation I've heard about. Not trying to give a smackdown here, and if anyone's musical needs mean they prefer a Korg CX, Roland VK, Kurzweil with KB3 mode, software clonewheel, or anything else, I'm not going to tell them they're wrong. It's just that while I understand the feelings that can give rise to a statement like "There is no Hammond," I think it's a little harsh given the current state and product lineup of the company. On a different subject, I contacted Pari about their real tonewheel organ, the K-61. I don't know what their US distribution picture is like, but if they have one, we're getting that puppy into the mag as soon as we can. Stephen Fortner Principal, Fortner Media Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I love my XK1, and through a leslie, it's still my preferred choice (and I have an Electro, NordStage and B4, all of which get used). But leaving it up to Hammond alone would be foolish: let healthy competition take its course and we all benefit. T Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 mate_stubb wrote: Hammond? There is no Hammond. Oh. Perhaps you meant SUZUKI, who bought up the Hammond name awhile back and who has no legacy connection to the real company besides that. I respectfully disagree. I know the guys at Hammond-Suzuki USA, and they have a lot of respect and outright reverence for the Hammond legacy. I also know that the Japanese parent lets them run as a pretty much autonomous company. Whether anyone thinks their clonewheel organs are better than another company's is an entirely valid matter of debate, and I certainly can understand anyone being skeptical after the XB-2 years. Their stuff is a lot better now, though. I've gigged a ton with the Leslie 3300, and it's a great road Leslie for modern times. Though expensive, the New B-3's key contact system is a very ambitious piece of electrical engineering, and really does duplicate the keyboard response and behavior of the original B-3. And I find that the XK series drawbar-for-drawbar definition really works well for pumping through a real rotary speaker. Stephen, this topic really pushes my button - here's my point: While the new Hammond company may be a swell bunch of guys who love and respect the legacy of the real organ, that also describes everybody else doing clone hard or software work. They have no particular leg up or special insight into the workings of a tonewheel organ JUST because they work for the company that bought the name. Rather than denigrating the Suzuki people, what I was saying is that everybody in the field is doing a great job these days. But make no mistake, a real Hammond (for the purposes of instrument fetishism in our discussion) is wood, steel, rotating wheels, tube and transformer technology. None of the real original Hammond engineers, some of whom I have had long conversations with, are involved with the new Hammond or these other companies. That's what I mean by a legacy connection. Harley Davidson has been continuously manufacturing motorcycles for over 100 years, and can claim that unbroken legacy, but IMO Ham-Suz cannot. We are picking nits here to be sure. But I get really steamed when people worship the new company as if they deserve the mythic status earned by the original company. I don't think that they deserve that worship; others may. Ham-Suz certainly spent its first years not listening to gigging musicians, and putting out a succession of weird and wacky products. If they have great products now, it's because others did better than they did and forced them to compete. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANotherB3dude Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 "Talent borrows. Genius steals" It really doesn't matter how the current Hammond/Suzuki company came by their ideas or current crop of products. All we as players should be interested in is tone and playability, after all that's why 'the' Hammond organ gained such reverence - ITS ALL IN THE SOUND! Besides, a bit of healthy competition is always good for the consumer - irrespective of the market or product. Well done Hammond, I'm loving the XK series...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The XK series for me as well. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMcM Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 While the new Hammond company may be a swell bunch of guys who love and respect the legacy of the real organ, that also describes everybody else doing clone hard or software work. They have no particular leg up or special insight into the workings of a tonewheel organ JUST because they work for the company that bought the name. None of the real original Hammond engineers, some of whom I have had long conversations with, are involved with the new Hammond or these other companies. Actually a number of employees are still there from the original Hammond Company. Suzuki bought the company back in the 90s and has kept it alive and running. They did not simply by the name. We are picking nits here to be sure. But I get really steamed when people worship the new company as if they deserve the mythic status earned by the original company. I don't think that they deserve that worship; others may. Like I said above, todays Hammond still employs people from the original company. I believe they deserve a LOT of recognition. The new B3 and Portable B3 are incredible instruments that are far from the ordinary clonewheel. As Stephen stated, the key contact system alone is a real feat of engineering. Ham-Suz certainly spent its first years not listening to gigging musicians, and putting out a succession of weird and wacky products.... I absolutely disagree (respectfully). The very first model that Suzuki introduced after purchasing the Hammond Company was called the XB-3. I have one and it has features that do not even exist on the newer instruments. (pity because there are some very handy functions such as aftertouch on both manuals, 3 external zones on each manual including pedalboard, the ability to use a set of drawbars as MIDI controllers, coupler buttons for lower-to-pedals and pedals-to-lower, etc.) Dave Wm. David McMahan I Play, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I have been gigging with a Pro-XK system for a couple of years and it is the best B3 clone I have ever played. And I own and play three B3's and seven leslies! The XK3C is a great improvement, but it still needs a real Leslie (IMHO). I use the 2101 powered with a Speakeasy AMA. That's the ticket!!! '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMcM Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I recently received my Pro-XK system and Leslie 3300 and have no regrets. It sounds awesome! FWIW I have owned the following Hammond's and clones (listed chronologically): original Hammond M3 thru a Leslie 145 Crumar T3 double manual thru a 145 Korg CX-2 single manual Korg BX-3 double manual thru a 145 original Hammond H100 thru a 147 original Hammond BCV thru a 147 Oberheim OB3 single manual Oberheim OB3 squared module Hammond XB-2 single manual Roland VK7 single manual original Hammond B2 with Trek II perc thru a 147 Hammond XB-3 thru a 122XB Hammond XK-2 single manual Roland VK8M module Hammond XK-3 Pro System thru a 3300 No oiling and the fact that I can fit an entire full organ and Leslie in the back of my vehicle makes for a very happy organ player. Dave Wm. David McMahan I Play, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I can fit my entire rig in my BMW Convertible, that includes: XK3C XLK3 Mackie SRM450 Leslie 2101 Speakeasy AMA Bench Stand for Pro XK System Stand for 2101 Cable and Pedal Bag Equipment Cart (Whew!) '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I think it's great that Hammond aka H-S are making great clones. But that doesn't mean we should "Leave Hammonds up to Hammond." Also, even if *every* employee and even Laurens Hammond were working for Hammond today, if they are only making clonewheels and not real tonewheel organs, all or at least most of the engineering that went into the original organs would not be being used. Therefore, they should be judged by what they are doing today and not blindly accepted as "Hammond, therefore good." Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Hammond/H-S. I met Dennis Capiga at NAMM last year and his passion for his company was palpable. I think that's great and hope the whole company is like that. But I also think it's great we have other options, like my treasured red Electro. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicale Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Thanks gents for the spirited discussion. Lot's of valid and even intelluctually stimulating ones. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. In this case we have simulated something of a bygone era. I'm still glad the originals are still around. So in closing, leave Leslie's up to Leslie, as a counterpoint. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I am glad so many of you like the Hammond stuff. It seems you can't say anything bad about The Electro on any forum without people getting pissed off. Usually the Hammond stuff get's bashed, especially over at Harmony-Central. Two top techs I know were testing the Hammond last week through different Leslies and tweaking the sounds and loved it. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I've been a fan of the Nord organ sound with a few caveats (overdone volume robbing for instance), but I find myself falling out of love with it somewhat. It sounds good live, cuts a band mix well, leslie sim is very serviceable in stereo, etc. But it sounds a bit dark and wooley to me these days. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I've never been a fan of the Nord sound, nor the B4 software for that matter. But both are perfectly fine instruments. Again, it comes down to what you need as a player. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Yeah when we tested the B-4 I found in lacking in the upper register. Having a laptop on stage is a little wierd, at least for me. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 The Hammond snobs should remember that Laurens is not coming back, he left no children to continue his legacy, and Laurens refused to acknowledge the artists who made his instrument what it is today. Laurens not only despised the Leslie speaker, he hated what jazz, R&B, and rock musicians were doing to his organ - the very artists who put him on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Yes, by all accounts the guy was a dick. I fail to see what that has to do with the topic at hand, however. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 The Hammond snobs should remember that Laurens is not coming back, he left no children to continue his legacy, and Laurens refused to acknowledge the artists who made his instrument what it is today. Laurens not only despised the Leslie speaker, he hated what jazz, R&B, and rock musicians were doing to his organ - the very artists who put him on the map. When you consider Laurens Hammond's opinion of the Leslie and certain types of musicians and the music they played etc. and compare it to Dave Horne's opinions of some musicians and the music they play etc., maybe he left a love child behind. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I like XK-3© and the Korg CX-3/(BX-3) ver. 2. I'll take those over a Roland VK or Nord. Though the Nord is very good to be fair! XK-3 series really needs to 'move-air' to get the best out if it. The Korg is still a good feeling instrument to me and sonically I prefer it to the Electros but I'm a keyboardist not an organist. Haven't really spent too much time with the Stage or C1, I hear they have updated the sample/modeling on those! I really don't like the VK organ sound! The Voce V5 believe it or not is still a very good organ module and very thick sounding, kudos to Dave Amels! lb CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraci Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 i have an original V 3 VOCE for sale!!! I found that the Korg CX3 sounded funny through a Leslie 21 system it's own emulation seemed better BUT THE Suzuki Hammond of about 2 years ago sounded better with the Leslie system than its internal leslie simulation . My luck, I sold the suzuki before I realized this I have a cx3 korg and a 21 system , not the best. I prefer the korg through regular speakers due to above comments The Suzuki XK3 ( I think it is "3" ) CAME ALIVE with the 21 system But not as much with korg The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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