The Reharm Room

[marino]

"Live" version added above.

 

Steve, you scare me sometimes...

 

Btw, listening to the various interpretations of "Where or When" has changed the way I see that song. I want to do a version ASAP.

 

 

 

[SK]

Here's Bewitched in the same fashion.

 

 

 

Haha

[SK]

Carlo, please pardon any scariness.

 

Speaking of which... I think I bit off more than I could chew on this one. I tried to give Bill Evans' "Twelve Tone Tune" a semi-modern classical vibe, and actually added a few more chords, so it's like Twelve Hundred Tone Tune.

 

Improvised in one take - When I got into it, I was so preoccupied with keeping the pseudo/semi-classical groove with all those chords, I didn't really solo like I wanted to. Plus the tune at this tempo was just too hard to handle. I may revisit this later to do a more respectable job.

 

But for now:

 

http://www.divshare.com/download/4596057-e87

 

[SK]

Gentle Rain is a pretty tune. Nice mood and substitutions on that, Dave.

 

[Peter the swede]

Hi Guys...

 

here is my first post in this thread and my contribution is a very well-known song that you might not recognice in the intro but then it becomes rather clear...

 

This piece is played on my college steinway and cost around 200.000 us dollar..steinways biggest grand. it is a dream to play on and i´m not kidding...

 

http://www.divshare.com/download/4598234-0a7

 

[SK]

Welcome Peter, to the reharm corner. Very nice to hear you and thanks for posting. Hope to hear more.

 

I agree - nice feel and sense of space, killer piano/ excellent recording.

[Dave Horne]

Peter, welcome! Like you I am also new to this thread.

 

I did manage to guess the tune from your intro.

 

Keep posting ... and as SK wrote, we hope to hear more.

 

Also, tell us a little about yourself.

[Peter the swede]

Okay, glad you´ll liked the sound of the grand and my playing..

 

A little info about myself then:

 

My name is Peter Burell and I live in sweden.

I study to become a teacher in piano and music at the moment at a college here in the city of Örebro.

I´m 27 years old and been playing since I was about 8 years old..

Played only classical music til I was about 17 ,and then I began to play more jazz and pop-music.. but occasionally I have been study a little classical piano from time to time also...

 

this semester I have been taking lesson from a great classical pianotecher at the college and I have been playing alot of Bach and some 20th century music by the Czech composer Bohuslav Martinu.. really rhytmic and beautiful music..

 

I´m working at the moment on a version of Summertime, and when I playing this song it really reminds me how much I love playing the blues.

 

I´m going to work out some blockharmony on the melody so I can play it a little Shearing-style.

 

I´m going to do a recording of it when I feel that time has come and then I post it here so you can hear it.

 

So in the meantime you guys maybe would like to here some Martinu-pieces that I played on the same concert where I played Over the rainbow..

 

Polka - Martinu _ Peter B.mp3: http://www.divshare.com/download/4604096-e5a

 

Etyd - Martinu .mp3: http://www.divshare.com/download/4604097-d88

 

Not so much reharm in these pieces

 

 

 

[SK]

It's good that you're balancing classical with jazz. From that perspective, I think you'll particularly enjoy our member Marino's playing.

 

This thread is for comparing approaches to music, sharing styles, harmonies and ideas, and sometimes on the same piece. So anything with a different perspective on known material is welcome.

 

Nice performances on those two short pieces.

 

 

 

[SK]

Just discovered something on my FP4. I thought when I listened back to Twelve Tone Tune it was fast - I had played it fast but I didn't remember playing it THAT fast. It bugged me.

 

I record my stuff on the FP4 first and then send it to the computer, so I don't have to go back and forth. I checked it - the default tempo on the FP4 recorder (which is 108) is 109.

 

So in pushing all those buttons, I must have changed it and sent it back to the computer one number faster than I played it. I was already at absolute top tempo, so that increase was just fast enough so when I heard it back, I was thinking WHAT, was I in some sort of zone or something there?

 

So that's the reason it sounds a tad fast, which it is! (so think one number less, 108 instead of 109)

[Dave Horne]

You bring up an interesting point. Can I assume that we do not quantize or use a click track or anything else that could make recording easier?

 

Is this an unwritten law in this thread?

[SK]

You bring up an interesting point. Can I assume that we do not quantize or use a click track or anything else that could make recording easier?

 

Is this an unwritten law in this thread?

There are no unwritten laws here. (Yes, you may use the transpose button- Haha, kidding!!)

 

I haven't used a click track myself. But on "Why Shouldn't I", trying to play real time bass, I SHOULD have.

 

I see nothing wrong with a click track... except for myself, I think it would make me nervous. Translation: no rules. As long as it's us playing what we can physically play. Otherwise, we can state if we do something differently. If we sequenced other instruments, that of course would be obvious.

[gangsu]

You bring up an interesting point. Can I assume that we do not quantize or use a click track or anything else that could make recording easier?

 

Is this an unwritten law in this thread?

 

You just had to ask. tsk tsk

 

Nice to hear a real concert grand, Peter. I've gotten so used to the desensitized digital version that it almost seems lanky in comparison. Enjoyed your mystery tune... I have to say the intro sounded more like Somewhere Over the River Styx. I've yet to listen to the rest of your tunes, sorry.

 

and SK, I can't say as I'd notice 1 notch of "cheating" on my own recordings, so kudos to you!

 

[marino]

Again...?!? No, please...

 

Dave - I have very little time to contribute to this thread, or to spend doing non-essential things anyway. For example, I would love to have my grand piano regulated and well miked, and some time to try out the songs I'm submitting. However, the sad truth is that I do those things at late night (very, very late), for the sheer pleasure to partecipate and learning from the others. I usually allow myself one attempt before crashing into bed; if it goes under a certain level, I just delay it until the next chance comes.

 

With the hope that the above circumstances could serve as mitigating factors, I'm going to confess that I've been guilty of:

 

- Using a click in a couple of tunes. On one in particular, "Easy to Love", it actually made things worse, because the effort to follow it at such slow tempo made my playing stiff and rigid.

 

- Stopping recording at some point where maybe I made a mistake or played something stupid, and resume playing from that point instead than starting over again from the top.

 

Do I feel guilty? Not an ounce.

More often than not, it made the difference between posting a song or not. In turn, that helped me to start thinking about the *next* song.

 

I know I'm a fairly good player (even though after having heard some of you guys, I'm a bit less sure). Under more human conditions (like, trying a song or a reharm a couple of times before recording it) I would enjoy an "all first takes" challenge. But given the current situation, using a very small bit of technology (metronomes! What technology..?!) in order to help the recording process is only good and right.

 

Oh, and that said, 90% of what I posted *is* first take beginning to end, no click.

 

Dave, I'll say this only once: The purist route is a blind alley. What if someone would start complaining that you don't play a real piano, or that you aren't *improvising* your reharms, or that you don't use Coltrane changes on every turnaround?

 

In short - what would it take for you to finally just enjoy the music?

 

Speaking of which - back to music now.

 

 

[Dave Horne]

Wow, I ask a simple, rhetorical question, ... directed to no one ... or to every one, and it is interpreted as an ... attack? (I assume a larger than normal font size in a reply is indicative of .... something.)

 

I thought it a simple, honest question. If I were to post something here that was in any way altered it would be so footnoted. (I thought it common knowledge that I play a GranTouch piano - a real grand action with a digital sample.) I find it somewhat disingenuous to record an absolutely fantastic file and then not mention the use of any aids. I don't record everything in one take - no one does. (And if anyone states they record every performance in one take they probably don't masturbate as well.) I find it offensive to either doctor the recording (editing via midi, for example, or using a click track) and then not mention it.

 

It's not the use of an aid I find offensive per se, it's the lack of documentation of the that use. (Jesus H. Christ - is that an issue?)

 

If you want to doctor your performance, do it ... just be honest and state it. This is not directed to anyone ... and for what it's worth, I hold myself up to the same standards; if I alter anything, I will so footnote it.

 

At least Philippe Entremont footnotes his intentional corrections to his recordings. (This is from memory but I have a two CD set of Mozart piano sonatas, I believe, that were performed by PE. He used a midi grand piano and edited his playing to perfection.) While we can have differing opinions on that process, his honesty is on display for all to see.

 

Regarding ... *improvising* your reharms, ... of course we all practice what we play, don't we? I know I do ... I know other piano players do because I hear the same or nearly the same 'improvisation' in person and on their CD. The more we practice improvisation, reharmonization ... any -ation, the better we become as performers.

 

Now, to gangsu - you shame me into recording with the implication that I should put up or shut up, .... and I do exactly that .... and you're still on my case. (I did thank you personally for that as I recall.) Perhaps I should throw it back to you .............. or not.

 

Back to the music .......

[gangsu]

I have to confess that I went back and slowed down that "death warmed over" folk song (which I neither wrote nor improvised upon) after I had recorded it. Like anybody cares.

 

Now, to gangsu - you shame me into recording with the implication that I should put up or shut up, .... and I do exactly that .... and you're still on my case. (I did thank you personally for that as I recall.) Perhaps I should throw it back to you .............. or not.

 

The truth is, (I'm not shouting, I'm laughing) you ought to know by now that you've more than met your match with the regular contributors to this thread. To suggest otherwise is, ahem, typical.

 

... on your case? Who, me?

[gangsu]

hey, I like everything you play more and more with each new tune. I should have told you sooner.

[Dave Ferris]

Thanks Sue for your nice words.

 

Carlo, I think you do an OUT OF THIS WORLD job, especially considering it's at the end of the day and you've been gigging or teaching or both. That sh..t really saps you, I know. When I'm tired like that I'm worthless to record anything. We all are not 25 or even 35 anymore...I think..haha.

Hell, in 2.5 weeks I'm 55. How did that happen??????

[marino]

Maybe I made a mistake by expressing my feelings...

Anyway, I'll try to clarify.

 

Wow, I ask a simple, rhetorical question, ... directed to no one ... or to every one, and it is interpreted as an ... attack?

No, I never interpreted it as a personal attack. But since I've seen you try to set the boundaries between what's legit and what's not in countless threads (according to your personal values), I really wanted to remind that nobody had ever established any rule for this thread. About what *is* legit and what's not, I'm afraid we'll never agree on those issues, so I suggest to avoid further discussion here. I just wanted to make my opinion clear.

(I assume a larger than normal font size in a reply is indicative of .... something.)

Again, no. I just wanted to clarify that after having spoken in defense of technological aids at some lenght, I am not a big user of them; I just don't see anything wrong in it.

I thought it a simple, honest question. If I were to post something here that was in any way altered it would be so footnoted.

You want to footnote the occasional use of a click? Gasp... I really have no answer.

(I thought it common knowledge that I play a GranTouch piano - a real grand action with a digital sample.) I find it somewhat disingenuous to record an absolutely fantastic file and then not mention the use of any aids.

Again... we're talking the use of a click here, Dave (for me, in two or three songs on about 20). Are you serious?

I don't record everything in one take - no one does.

Most (though not all) of my submissions were uninterrupted first takes.

(And if anyone states they record every performance in one take they probably don't masturbate as well.)

-----

I find it offensive to either doctor the recording (editing via midi, for example, or using a click track) and then not mention it.

They are quite different things. Personally, if it's 4am and I'm so tired I could fall asleep on the floor, using a click (again: I did it just a few times) in order not to play something totally silly is not an issue at all. I've played on several jazz albums, and I would never use a click on a record. Of course!

It's not the use of an aid I find offensive per se, it's the lack of documentation of the that use. (Jesus H. Christ - is that an issue?)

Again, it depends on what you find acceptable or not. I could find unacceptable other, different things.

If you want to doctor your performance, do it ... just be honest and state it. This is not directed to anyone ... and for what it's worth, I hold myself up to the same standards; if I alter anything, I will so footnote it.

I didn't 'footnote' my very occasional use of the click or recording in 2/3 different takes because I didn't think anybody on this thread would have found it necessary, or interesting. I did it *immediately* when you raised the issue.

Regarding ... *improvising* your reharms, ... of course we all practice what we play, don't we? I know I do ... I know other piano players do because I hear the same or nearly the same 'improvisation' in person and on their CD. The more we practice improvisation, reharmonization ... any ation, the better we become as performers.

Personally, on most songs posted here, I just scribbled some changes, then played it, first take, no reharsals. I know some things by SK and DF are totally improvised.

Back to the music .......

 

Right.

 

 

[gangsu]

Thanks Sue for your nice words.

 

Carlo, I think you do an OUT OF THIS WORLD job, especially considering it's at the end of the day and you've been gigging or teaching or both. That sh..t really saps you, I know. When I'm tired like that I'm worthless to record anything. We all are not 25 or even 35 anymore...I think..haha.

Hell, in 2.5 weeks I'm 55. How did that happen??????

 

You're welcome, Dave! And yeah, Carlo rocks. If you want to hear him when he's wide awake, pick up La Linea. You won't regret it.

 

55! Maybe you should slow down. (ditto)

[marino]

Thanks Dave F. and Sue. We were posting at the same time.

 

Peter, welcome to the club. I liked your spacious and original version of Over the Rainbow. You're almost ready for ECM!

(the Martinu is nicely played, too!)

 

And really, back to the music...

Here's some noodling on Where or When . The various versions posted here really helped me reconsider the feel of this song. I've included the initial verse.

And it's heavily reharmonized.

 

 

[SK]

Nice Carlo! Several things, but one was the brief F triad over A on the last "A", and the last two chords before the final one (major7).

 

I feel silly even evaluating this stuff, but I like pointing out some little spots that grab me. There were many things I liked about it.

 

Dave F, I like that Only Have Eyes. You have some groovy stride stuff going on there too.

 

As for the discussion I missed while I was playing out of town tonight, I basically agree with everybody (which may make me a moron.) I didn't take anything to be an attack, and I agree with Carlo's outlook on it.

 

And I agree with Dave Horne too, that it's nice if we identify when we use "aids", but not mandatory. No rules.

 

Some things I've done were quick, one time throughs with no practice (like my first version of Where Or When), and I've used no clicks or anything else except for the layering of instruments on 2 songs. And there's NOTHING wrong with using clicks or aids. (Caps for emphasis only.) Actually, a click track isn't even worth mentioning, since it probably helps and hinders one's playing.

 

To be perfectly honest, I often have to take a second try on many of these, not because I didn't play them "well enough", but because often I'll hit a wrong note right from the start and ruined it before I even got started. Once I'm "in" on the tune, I usually do OK. Amazing sometimes how you can play a ton of notes with no mistakes, and then can't get the first 2 bars right.

 

Anyway, I'm very appreciative of everyone who has and is participating and giving something of themselves in this thread. I've been affected and inspired by something that's been played by each of you, and I'm a better musician for it. I sense a small, collective broadening of the scope for each of us, which is more than I would have hoped for when this started.

 

 

 

 

 

[gangsu]

Anyway, I'm very appreciative of everyone who has and is participating and giving something of themselves in this thread. I've been affected and inspired by something that's been played by each of you, and I'm a better musician for it. I sense a small, collective broadening of the scope for each of us, which is more than I would have hoped for when this started.

 

 

I can't say that I'm a better musician because of this thread but I've learned to become a better listener and I've certainly appreciated everyone's insights.

 

And I'm very proud to have 'helped' DH overcome a minor technological obstacle. It's great to finally hear you play! And even if you had painstakingly entered one note at a time, edited the dynamics and fussed with the tempo, I'd still enjoy hearing your idea of a good take.

[Dave Horne]

Some of the links to my mp3's given here (on page 6) will not work. I just tidied up my web site and created an mp3 folder (instead of placing all these mp3's in the root directory).

 

I went back and could only edit one of the posts here to reflect that change. My posts on page 6 (at least page 6 as seen from my computer) were too old, I'm guessing, to be edited.

 

So, all my mp3 are now located at http://members.home.nl/davehorne/mp3.htm (which is the same link in my signature).

[gangsu]

That's it? You fixed your links?? You're more work than I realized.

 

 

 

 

[marino]

Nice Carlo! Several things, but one was the brief F triad over A on the last "A", and the last two chords before the final one (major7).

Thanks a lot Steve. You mean the Ab in the melody, four bars before the final chord? That's just an Fm7b5-Bb7, going to Em7b5-A7 in the next bar (melody note Bb).

The next two bars are D#m7-G#7 (melody note C) and Dm7-G7b9 (melody note D), resolving on a Dbmaj9 (melody Eb).

I feel silly even evaluating this stuff, but I like pointing out some little spots that grab me. There were many things I liked about it.

again, thanks!

As for the discussion I missed while I was playing out of town tonight, I basically agree with everybody (which may make me a moron.) I didn't take anything to be an attack, and I agree with Carlo's outlook on it.

 

And I agree with Dave Horne too, that it's nice if we identify when we use "aids", but not mandatory. No rules.

Ok. So if I happen to use a metronome again (very unlikely), or to record in a couple of different stints instead of beginning-to-end, I'll let you know. I still think it's a silly thing to do, but if this is the general consensus, no problem.

Some things I've done were quick, one time throughs with no practice (like my first version of Where Or When), and I've used no clicks or anything else except for the layering of instruments on 2 songs. And there's NOTHING wrong with using clicks or aids. (Caps for emphasis only.) Actually, a click track isn't even worth mentioning, since it probably helps and hinders one's playing.

As I said, at least in one case using a metronome has made my take way too stiff for my tastes. I strive to play in time anyway.

To be perfectly honest, I often have to take a second try on many of these, not because I didn't play them "well enough", but because often I'll hit a wrong note right from the start and ruined it before I even got started. Once I'm "in" on the tune, I usually do OK. Amazing sometimes how you can play a ton of notes with no mistakes, and then can't get the first 2 bars right.

I think it's quite similar for every one of us.

Anyway, I'm very appreciative of everyone who has and is participating and giving something of themselves in this thread. I've been affected and inspired by something that's been played by each of you, and I'm a better musician for it. I sense a small, collective broadening of the scope for each of us, which is more than I would have hoped for when this started.

 

That's the spirit. Thanks again for having started this thread!

 

 

[marino]

Also, Steve - I have to go quickly now, but I haven't forgotten your PM. 'See' you tonight (that is, in a few hours!).

[SK]

And I agree with Dave Horne too, that it's nice if we identify when we use "aids", but not mandatory. No rules.

Ok. So if I happen to use a metronome again (very unlikely), or to record in a couple of different stints instead of beginning-to-end, I'll let you know. I still think it's a silly thing to do, but if this is the general consensus, no problem.

No Carlo... that's not what I was saying. Like you, I don't care to know when anyone uses a click. Why would I? You and I are on the same page on that. I was agreeing with Dave H that if we use "aids" or tools (beyond a simple click track) - whatever that might be - that it's "nice" to mention it in the post as a matter of courtesy and thoroughness, but not mandatory.

 

Now if someone wants to say "I edited two takes together", that would be informative and more worth mentioning - but STILL not required. But if somebody was creating an absolute 'Frankenstein' performance of pieces of things they couldn't actually play, it would be disingenuous not to mention that, and we'd know it right away anyway - but NOBODY'S doing that.

 

When I say "no rules", I mean NO rules. We've done fine without rules, and rules could breed distrustfulness. We know each other's playing well enough to know our natural playing and to trust that it is truly us. If we have to have rules to post our playing, I wouldn't post one more note.

[Dave Horne]

Just to put all of this in perspective, SK wrote the following:

 

Just discovered something on my FP4. I thought when I listened back to Twelve Tone Tune it was fast - I had played it fast but I didn't remember playing it THAT fast. It bugged me.

 

I record my stuff on the FP4 first and then send it to the computer, so I don't have to go back and forth. I checked it - the default tempo on the FP4 recorder (which is 108) is 109.

 

So in pushing all those buttons, I must have changed it and sent it back to the computer one number faster than I played it. I was already at absolute top tempo, so that increase was just fast enough so when I heard it back, I was thinking WHAT, was I in some sort of zone or something there?

 

So that's the reason it sounds a tad fast, which it is! (so think one number less, 108 instead of 109)

 

.... to which I responded with ...

 

You bring up an interesting point. Can I assume that we do not quantize or use a click track or anything else that could make recording easier?

 

Is this an unwritten law in this thread?

 

 

 

 

 

_________________________

[Floyd Tatum]

No rules? Isn't there some kind of an un-written "repertoire" rule?