OT: Industrial accidents!

[Bluesape]

As I type this, my buddy Dave, who too seldom posts here as CL10, is driving across the South to his son's funeral. I just got off the phone with him. Details are sketchy, but Jeff was an electrician, up on a ladder at a worksite, wiring up something when the power somehow came back on. He was 29. I knew Jeff slightly. Dave and his mother were divorced when we met 20-odd years ago. He was a smart, funny, gleefully mischievous kid.

 

Right now, in Ontario, we are bombarded with government commercials regarding workplace safety. The accidents depicted are disturbingly graphic, yet we tune them out, like all ads, waiting for the program to come back on. This hits home, just like Lister's and Vince's injuries, which fortunately have much happier endings. I hope all of you who work in high risk environments will take ownership of your own safety. This was such a waste!

[Bytored]

Oh man I am sorry to here that. Saftey in the work place is a must. This is a terrible thing.

 

 

[Dr. Ellwood]

oh MAN that's just horriable Reif!! Prayers!!

[A String]

Yes, that is terrible news Reif. My condolences.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Man, Reif...that's horrible! Sorry to hear it. Dave, if you're out there reading this....I'm really sorry to hear about your son. My thoughts and prayers are with you, man.

[mdrs]

Thanks for posting this, Reif. It's a terribly sad story. But, perhaps someone else will be safe and avoid a disasterous accident because they read this.

 

Condolences to you, Dave. Sorry for your loss.

[jbote]

Reif, that's really sad. Dave, my condolences to you and your family.

[The Big G]

Dave our thoughts are with you.

 

G

[The Geoff]

So sad. Words aren't enough.

 

G.

[Trucks]

I'm sorry to hear that your friend is going through this. And at this time of year too.

 

It is a terrible thing to happen, I think the christmas period makes it all the worse. My best friends brother in law was killed in Iraq last week, so I have seen what this can do to a family at Christmas.

 

My thoughts are with your friend, Reif.

[Bluesape]

Thx for the kind words, everyone.

[Guitarzan]

i am so sorry to hear that Reif. in the last month we have had a pile of accidents at work.

the plant has been real serious on safety lately.

working 12 hr shifts at my plant is hard for some to keep alert.

[Strategery]

Wow...I am very sorry to hear this.

My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

 

Just FYI...that kind of stuff is everywhere.

 

My little sister's husband is a master electrician and has been for 20+ years.

He even works at nuclear facilities.

 

A couple of years back...he was dismantling a temporary electrical station in a factory.

When they do that...they LOCK OUT switches on the main boxes and they are MARKED.

This little temp station was 440v which is pretty damn strong.

 

So while my brother inlaw was working on it...some kid goes up and flips a couple of swithces and makes them live.

My brother inlaw completed the circuit through his hands when it happened.

The 440v when through one hand, thru his body across his heart, and out the other hand.

Thank GOD he was knocked away!!

BUT....BUT...it destoyed the nail bed end of one of his thumbs and although it as been reconstructed...he has no feeling on it.

 

Work place safety is no laughing matter.

 

Again...I'm very sorry to hear this.

Please convey our condolences.

 

Randy

[Sauce]

Condolences. Hope your buddy Dave is holding up alright.

[stamplicker]

Condolences to Dave and family.

 

 

Can't help but stress enough to people to be careful when on/at the workplace.

[smirk]

Just terrible, as a guy with two sons I can think of nothing worse that could happen to a person.

 

Condolences.

[fantasticsound]

Please pass along my condolences to your friend and his family, and know you and they are in my prayers.

 

I have a friend who acts as project manager for retail outlets his company owns. He sent a young electrician to work on a sign in the strip mall around the corner from my house and the kid died because the overhang he was working in contained electrical for other businesses signs on the same stretch and he came into contact with an exposed wire from one of their signs. He had to crawl into the space and, as such, had no chance of being thrown clear or pulled out by another person. It must've been horrible.

 

Beyond the obvious of locking out the circuits you're working on, please be concious that they may not be the only live circuits accessible in your work area. And if, like me, you're only knowledgeable enough of electronics to be dangerous, let the professionals do the job for you. The money you spend may save your life. I only work on the most basic wiring and always take double and triple precautions.

 

I once arc welded away part of my Leatherman-clone's knife blade. My boss plugged in an intermittent power extension cable I was testing and repairing. Had they not invested in the proper thick rubber matting in front of the work bench I likely would've been fried. It was a mild surprise in the moment but 5 minutes later I was shaking as I realized what had happened and took in the possible consequences I barely avoided.

[Fumblyfingers]

I am very sorry to hear that Reif. Please add my condolences when you talk to your friend. I could not imagine losing a child.

 

Lee, very sorry about your best mate's brother.

 

Hope you don't mind if I expand on this a bit..not just workplace but at home also.

 

 

We have a saying in my industry... "Safety is no accident" A couple years ago the union governing body IATSE, instituted safety training classes and every union member has to go get certified on each class or you are dropped from the roster. There are certain trade specific classes and some that are all trades have to do them.

 

Each member has a Safety Passport book they put the stamps in when you have completed. Some of the courses are 6-8 hours long.

 

Electricity can be a bitch. When I do film lighting we lay out big runs...sometimes we might have multiple 1500A tow plant generators and three phase 4/0 cable runs. 4/0 is good for 400A per leg...so 1200A on a run is possible....and trust me we pull this kind of current often.

 

If your body is wet, 100mA could kill you....let alone 400 plus amps.

 

I heard about a lineman working on a pole one time and the power had been shut off. Supposedly the story goes, some homeowner down the line hooked up a small 650W ( 6.5A) generator to his house to try fire up the fridge or whatever. The current backed out up to the power lines and each time it went through a transformer, as it travelled towards where the workers were, it increased in amperage and when it hit the guy who was working on the line it killed him. A stupid yet innocent mistake cost someone his life.

 

This should be also good warning to people who are not qualified to not alter or change your amplifiers or attempt modifications or make connections you are not sure of. Same for the household stuff, pay the bucks and call in a pro.

 

Some tips. I ALWAYS used to touch my guitar strings to my mic, once I plugged in to my amp, at a sound check in a club or whatever and listen for a static pop or see a little blue spark. I used to make sure I was not grounding to the guitar anywhere also...I would hold it by the body with the neck just resting on the palm of my hand, not contacting the strings...and gently bring it on to the mic mesh. I have seen them really arc nicely before.......and have been bit really sharply in the past which is what led to this habit.

 

Sorry, not to take away from the thread...I am truly sorry about this young man's tragic passing....but if some good can come out of it it is as you say Reif to be super careful and mindful of accidents and also to remind us of the danger of electricity as we use equipment that has enough current in there to really do a number on us. Like using ground lifters to get rid of hum etc.....it's dumb. Buy a circuit tester and put it in your kit. Next time you go to a gig, stab it into the wall plug you are plugging into and verify the circuit is wired correctly and is grounded. The tester should not be more that a few bucks. Get a "sniffer" for a few dollars and use it to verify there is no current in a line when you change a switch or plug at the house...you may have the breaker off but something might be crossed up and while you are holding wires you think are safe, someone turns a light on in another room and you get bit.

 

Being anal about safety can save a life.

[Caevan O’Shite]

That's terrible, please accept and extend my humble condolences as you can...

 

Today happens to be my brother's birthday; he would have been forty. He was only seventeen when he was accidentally electrocuted while working on the rooftop of a local motel, due to incorrect wiring that in no way should have passed any kind of inspection. I am so sorry that today now also marks the loss of your friend's son (or, at least, your posting of it here)...

 

I am sincerely very sorry for everyone that knew him, Reif! Christmases will be kinda rough for them for a while; glad for them that they have good friends like you, that'll make a big difference.

[Greg B.]

Sorry to hear about this, Reif & Dave. My thoughts and prayers are with your family and all who knew him.

[VacuumVoodoo]

So sorry to read about this guys. I'm surprised so many have had a family member or a friend fall victim to electrical accidents myself included. During my first year at university a student friend of mine got a summer job at a shipyard. He didn't come back: bad isolation on a power drill. It's all too sad.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

I had a neighbor once that went to help his dad install a Ham Radio tower on top of his house. The wind caught it as they were trying to stand it up and it fell against a power line. As I recall (this was back in the '70s), it was something like a 3500v feed and was there because of some 3-phase service in an industrial park right behind his dad's house. He survived it, but the damage it did to his body was incredible. He was totally disabled from that moment forward.

[Bluesape]

Even a small TV can store enough juice to kill you for months, if not longer. Lister is right - if you ain't a pro, leave it alone. I wish I could be there for Dave. I hate to see people I love hurting.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Even a small TV can store enough juice to kill you for months

 

Or, it could kill you permanently if you're not careful......

 

 

 

[Bluesape]

Bad Sas!

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fantasticsound]

Even a small TV can store enough juice to kill you for months, if not longer. Lister is right - if you ain't a pro, leave it alone. I wish I could be there for Dave. I hate to see people I love hurting.

 

I believe your statement is an exaggeration, but the idea is correct.

 

In the basic electronic concepts class required at Columbia College for sound engineering my teacher told us of a buddy of his who was killed doing maintenance on a Navy sub. The sub has capacitors taller than a standard floor in a building. According to our teacher, when maintenance occurs they power these caps down for 24 hours then cross the leads with a wrench (wearing heavy protective gloves and rubber boots to ensure they don't ground through the worker's body) to release any residual charge. In the case of my instructor's friend, he called the bridge and asked some green operator to check the circuits were, indeed, off. The operator flicked the switches on then off, immediately powering those huge capacitors to full strength in a fraction of a second. The guy didn't stand a chance when he crossed those leads with the wrench.

 

Other than specialized circuits specifically designed to hold a charge for exceptionally long times, I believe most capacitors will bleed their charge within 24 hours.

 

Still, I wouldn't go poking my fingers in the back of any electronics that have been plugged in any time in the past few days without proper training and safety precautions.

[A String]

I believe most capacitors will bleed their charge within 24 hours.

 

I don't know Neil. I had a friend who needed his TV adjusted (The brights were dull so I told him I would adjust the main settings, inside). I asked him to unplug the TV and leave it. Four days later, I show up to fix the TV. I open it up and start looking for the main adjustments on the MB and I suddenly bumped where I shouldn't have. I got a really nasty shock that made me yell out (and scare my friends kid) as well as making me feel a little woozy for a few minutes afterwards.

 

Good news is, I lived and fixed his TV, plus I learned to always be careful when inside a TV.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Well, actually it was much, much more dangerous in the early days of color televisions when linear transformers were used to supply the high voltage for the "picture tube". Those transformers provided the HV at much higher current than the newer flyback transformers. I suppose it's still capable of killing you, depending upon your physical condition, but it's much less likely. However, I guess it's still possible for some of the power supply capacitors to store a potentially deadly charge even though you are much less likely to accidentally come into contact with those than you are the HV lead to the CRT.

[fantasticsound]

I believe most capacitors will bleed their charge within 24 hours.

 

I don't know Neil. I had a friend who needed his TV adjusted (The brights were dull so I told him I would adjust the main settings, inside). I asked him to unplug the TV and leave it. Four days later, I show up to fix the TV. I open it up and start looking for the main adjustments on the MB and I suddenly bumped where I shouldn't have. I got a really nasty shock that made me yell out (and scare my friends kid) as well as making me feel a little woozy for a few minutes afterwards.

 

Good news is, I lived and fixed his TV, plus I learned to always be careful when inside a TV.

 

Interesting...

 

Of course, when I say the caps have bled out that really means the bulk of their power. I'd expect to get shocked after 4 days, but I'm surprised to hear it hit you so hard.