New Rolands on the way?

[MikeT156]

Quote by Andre Lower:

 

"but Roland has this "tradition" of releasing synths when they are not quite "ready" yet. Look at the XP series (made way too more attractive upon the release of the XP-30 later on) and the Fantom X fixing so many things on the original Fantom. In this comparatively short experience I had with Roland so far I'd refrain from buying the first inception of their keyboard products and save my money for the "revised" version that tends to come up a couple of years after the first release".

 

I think most every company rushes things to market and then cleans up the bugs that are found once the product hits the street. I've always made it a habit to wait a year before buying a new product. That gives the mfg time to absorb tech support issues, determine what they need to do to solve the problems, as well as do OS revisions to deal with MIDI implementation and bugs.

 

The last two KB's I bought were on the market at least a year before I bought them and I'm glad I waited. I haven't had any problem with either my Motif ES8 or my Alesis ION. The ION was somewhat troublesome for early buyers, but by the time I got mine, the problems were taken care of and I've had 3 years of trouble free enjoyment.

 

Mike T.

[Tusker]

[OT musings] I've never heard a good modeled bowed strings ... it all sounds plastic. It may be my (bad) experiences with the Yamaha VL bowed strings that are causing me to say this. But I listen for the plastic in the GT demos, and I hear it. I'm really waiting for some composite modelling, where you can bow a bowl, strike a string that's resonating in a clay pot, etc. Hopefully this will get us out from under this traditional instrument emulation that is weighing us down.

 

I just love how the theremin broke free of these expectations... you can utilize a violin style and idiom if you like ... but nobody is going to judge you by how "realistic" you sound.

 

Jerry

[Blue JC]

I may be a dinosaur, but an XP-80 and an MPC are still the workhorses of my project studio. I was never crazy about Rolands live but the XP-80 holds its own in the studio even now. Especially with the Session Pianos installed.

[MusicWorkz]

I may be a dinosaur, but an XP-80 and an MPC are still the workhorses of my project studio. I was never crazy about Rolands live but the XP-80 holds its own in the studio even now. Especially with the Session Pianos installed.

 

Such is the side effect of having G.A.S....we feel outmoded when in reality, we are not. That is a powerful combination and both tools together can be as potent as anything on the market today. The key is knowing where the strengths are in your setup and exploiting them.

[Tusker]

Such is the sideefect of having G.A.S....we feel outmoded when in reality, we are not. That is a powerful combination and both tools together can be as potent as anything on the market today. The key is knowing where the strengths are in your setup and exploiting them.

 

Well put. I will be using an XP50 with some expansion boards for some mellotron strings, choirs and bells this weekend. It's a little noisier than my newer stuff ... but it sounds compelling, and that's all that really matters.

 

Jerry

[MusicWorkz]

I havethe Vintage Synth card in my XP-30 and LOVE it. STILL discovering some great patches in it. I need to put my hands on the Pop card though for my JV-1010...

[Song80s]

Such is the sideefect of having G.A.S....we feel outmoded when in reality, we are not. That is a powerful combination and both tools together can be as potent as anything on the market today. The key is knowing where the strengths are in your setup and exploiting them.

 

Well put. I will be using an XP50 with some expansion boards for some mellotron strings, choirs and bells this weekend. It's a little noisier than my newer stuff ... but it sounds compelling, and that's all that really matters.

 

Jerry

 

the problem I had with the XP50 is the incredible cheezy cheap keyboard action

[Bill H.]

I may be a dinosaur, but an XP-80 and an MPC are still the workhorses of my project studio. I was never crazy about Rolands live but the XP-80 holds its own in the studio even now. Especially with the Session Pianos installed.

 

I might have put this up before, but in a club I work occasionally there's a CD on the jukebox featuring some local guys that I played keyboards on. This was around 10 years ago. On a ballad there's an exposed section that I recorded with the "Session" piano, and whenever it comes on I'm amazed at how good it still sounds. It's just like we used a real piano.

 

If I had it to do this cut all over again today, I think I'd still use it.

 

Now this is listening to it in a bar... I don't have the CD at home to more carefully analyze it. And I'm not encouraging you all to scrap your pianos for "Session" because this thing was really clumsy and clunky. It always sounded and recorded better than it played. But it still blows me away.

 

Anyway, I do think the XP-60/80 was the best interface Roland has ever done on a workstation, and I hope that Roland goes back and includes some if it's features on the next generation. One of the things that's always attracted me to Motifs is that their front panels are laid out in a similar fashion, more like an XP than Roland's own Fantoms.

[Song80s]

 

 

 

Anyway, I do think the XP-60/80 was the best interface Roland has ever done on a workstation, and I hope that Roland goes back and includes some if

 

I disagree. The JV80/JV880 had the best OS interface

[Tusker]

An OT question regarding interfaces ...

 

I loved the feature of the XP series where you could toggle any of 8 patches on and off with a single button press in performance mode, without the sounds cutting off awkwardly. It's an orchestrater's dream. Do any of the other manufacturer's support this in their romplers? I know Yamaha doesn't. Thanks,

 

Jerry

[Bill H.]

Jerry to my knowledge all workstation manufacturers... Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, support smooth program changes in their "single" modes with the exception of Yamaha. It is the Achilles Heel of Motifs, made even worse on the XS because you no longer get smooth changes if you put all your voices for live use in a mix... a workaround you could do in it's predecessors.

 

However, Roland and Korg don't if you are switching multis and performances. Just patches and programs.

 

I had the JV-80 in the early 1990s and yeah it might have been the best. However it was a comparatively very simple keyboard without a lot of features. Loved it's 8 sliders though.

[mate stubb]

 

 

 

Anyway, I do think the XP-60/80 was the best interface Roland has ever done on a workstation, and I hope that Roland goes back and includes some if

 

I disagree. The JV80/JV880 had the best OS interface

 

True dat. I gigged with a JV80 for 7 years with the pop expansion board installed. I used to be a Roland man all the way, but that was the last Roland I ever bought. Their XP boards were crap feeling and cheaply built compared to the JVs.

[GovernorSilver]

I listened to those demos a few days ago to remind myself of what is different about the GT. I personally find them fairly cheesy and unrealistic, but as I said earlier, a step in the right direction.

 

I was ironically the clear failure of those demos to convince me of keyboard-driven control over strings that got me looking into guitar synthesis again this weekend

 

It's funny that you mention guitar synthesis and Roland. I just listened to this demo of the Roland VG-99 (hexaphonic audio processor/MIDI converter for guitar):

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=781088

 

Apparently, it's an excerpt from Barber's "Adagio For Strings", done with a patch using the Bowed Synth Model, with the onboard ribbon controller tossed in for good measure. No MIDI.

 

I actually liked the V-Synth GT when I tried it a bit at Guitar Center. I'm intrigued by the elastic audio editing/processing capability. I've got my hands full trying to grok my VG-99 though at the moment - not quite ready yet to produce a demo like the above. Maybe I'll pick up a V-Synth XT rack on ebay to partner up with my VG-99.

[b3keys]

NAMM Predictions:

new Roland workstation - either a Fantom upgrade or an Oasys competitor

V-Synth GT Rack

new Roland analog synth

[Tusker]

Jerry to my knowledge all workstation manufacturers... Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, support smooth program changes in their "single" modes with the exception of Yamaha. It is the Achilles Heel of Motifs, made even worse on the XS because you no longer get smooth changes if you put all your voices for live use in a mix... a workaround you could do in it's predecessors.

 

However, Roland and Korg don't if you are switching multis and performances. Just patches and programs.

 

I am speaking of a row of toggle buttons that is provided under the screen on the XPs. It's a very powerful voice pallete. Let's you have voice 1 and voice 4 activated. By pressing buttons 2, 3, and 4, you will now have voices 1, 2, and 3 activated. This allows you to switch from horns, strings, choir to horns, bells, percussion, in just one move for example.

 

I assume the buttons numbered 1-8 on the Fantoms work the same way. I am not aware of a corresponding set of buttons on the Triton series. Not sure about Kurz either.

 

I don't have my S90ES with me, but my understanding is that toggle-off on the Yamaha buttons sends an immediate note-off to the sound source in mix mode ... potentially truncating a decaying sound ... and preventing this kind of "orchestration."

 

Jerry

[Mark Schmieder]

Wow, I didn't know the VG-99 had a Bowed Synth Model! Of all the things I heard at Roland's NAMM booth this year, the updated guitar modeling technology impressed me the most, but I had sort of convinced myself by then not to return to guitar MIDI after several generations of disappointment with that technology.

 

I've read a lot of buzz recently that the VG technology is actually way better at tracking and expressivity than ANY of the actual guitar-based synthesis techniques at play.

[GovernorSilver]

Wow, I didn't know the VG-99 had a Bowed Synth Model! Of all the things I heard at Roland's NAMM booth this year, the updated guitar modeling technology impressed me the most, but I had sort of convinced myself by then not to return to guitar MIDI after several generations of disappointment with that technology.

 

I've read a lot of buzz recently that the VG technology is actually way better at tracking and expressivity than ANY of the actual guitar-based synthesis techniques at play.

 

VG technology can track pretty well, because it's really just effects processing of each individual string, with physical modeling. The other onboard synth models include GR-300 (the old Roland guitar synth fully modelled), Pipe (used for flute sounds), Organ, Crystal (for sparkly DX-style sounds), PWM, Wave, and a couple of others I can't remember off the top of my head. I want to record a demo of the Organ sound soon.

[Mark Schmieder]

Cool. I really didn't know they'd moved beyond "just" modeling amps and other guitar types. Sounds like the VG-series is way more than a Line6 clone at this point (not to mention what hex pickups can do for enabling modeling approaches that would be far less successful if even possible using a merged pickup signal).

[MikeT156]

Quote by Bill H:

 

"Jerry to my knowledge all workstation manufacturers... Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, support smooth program changes in their "single" modes with the exception of Yamaha. It is the Achilles Heel of Motifs, made even worse on the XS because you no longer get smooth changes if you put all your voices for live use in a mix... a workaround you could do in it's predecessors."

 

So this includes song mode too? The Motif ES allows up to 8 insert effects, so if you put 8 pathes into a song and name it, you call call up a "song", select edit, and toggle between different voices without have the effects engine reset, as it does in Voice mode. So, are you saying the new XS doesn't allow this?

 

Mike

 

[MikeT156]

Quote by Bill H:

 

"Jerry to my knowledge all workstation manufacturers... Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, support smooth program changes in their "single" modes with the exception of Yamaha. It is the Achilles Heel of Motifs, made even worse on the XS because you no longer get smooth changes if you put all your voices for live use in a mix... a workaround you could do in it's predecessors."

 

So this includes song mode too? The Motif ES allows up to 8 insert effects, so if you put 8 pathes into a song and name it, you call call up a "song", select edit, and toggle between different voices without have the effects engine reset, as it does in Voice mode. So, are you saying the new XS doesn't allow this?

 

Mike

 

[GovernorSilver]

Cool. I really didn't know they'd moved beyond "just" modeling amps and other guitar types. Sounds like the VG-series is way more than a Line6 clone at this point (not to mention what hex pickups can do for enabling modeling approaches that would be far less successful if even possible using a merged pickup signal).

 

The VG-8 was Roland's first VG product. It might have been a contemporary of the original Line6 POD, but definitely predated the Variax product line by several years. The VG-8 already had onboard synth models - these were called HRM (Harmonic Restructure Modeling) models at the time. The EX version of the VG-8 added more guitar and synth models. Reportedly, some of the VG-8 EX synth models (eg. Vio Guitar) were dropped from later models, which is why some VG users are holding on to their VG-8s.

 

I haven't really played much with the Bowed model on my VG-99, because I also play cello (acoustic and electric). But if you like, I can record a demo track. The guy who did the "Adagio For Strings" demo clip said his patch was simply two Bowed Models (you can have an A and B model on the 99 - this allows for crossfades, like between acoustic guitar and synth) with reverb and delay, and expression pedal mapped to volume.

 

I also have an Electro-Harmonix HOG. This is a different kind of "guitar synth" in that it extracts pitch information out of the incoming signal, then generates its own organ-like tones. I was thinking of selling it when I got the VG-99, then found it to be a great match for my electric cello. It does a better job of tracking my cello for producting octave- and 2-octave-below pitches.

[delirium]

Quote by Bill H:

 

"Jerry to my knowledge all workstation manufacturers... Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, support smooth program changes in their "single" modes with the exception of Yamaha. It is the Achilles Heel of Motifs, made even worse on the XS because you no longer get smooth changes if you put all your voices for live use in a mix... a workaround you could do in it's predecessors."

 

So this includes song mode too? The Motif ES allows up to 8 insert effects, so if you put 8 pathes into a song and name it, you call call up a "song", select edit, and toggle between different voices without have the effects engine reset, as it does in Voice mode. So, are you saying the new XS doesn't allow this?

 

Mike

 

sure motif XS allows this.

 

seamless voice change

 

[Bill H.]

Give it a shot delirium and see what happens. Unless it's been covered in an OS update since my demo of the XS in GC a few months back, the keyboard cuts out and goes dead.

 

The only suggestion I've seen from the gurus in the Motif forum to disgruntled XS owners looking for smooth program changes has been to toggle between two with the new assignable buttons. But that gets you just two.

 

There is a user over there who is doing it with octave shift buttons... assigning voices to different octave ranges and changing programs by shifting the entire keyboard up and down. I thought that was pretty clever.

[delirium]

So this includes song mode too? The Motif ES allows up to 8 insert effects,

 

this is not quite true.

 

As with the Motif ES the XS lets you utilize 2 inserts per voice and 8 voices with their dual inserts can be used in song/pattern mode. VCM effects can comprise both of these voice inserts giving you a total of 16 simultaneous effects if you need.

[lerber3]

Well... I guess it's real.

 

I just got the latest official Roland newsletter and they are offering 4 free SRX cards with any Fantom purchase. I can't wait to see what they might release @ NAMM.

 

Fantom GT, anyone?

 

 

[Bill H.]

Hmmm... that might spell the end of keyboards with SRX expansion slots in them too. But doesn't the SonicCell take them?

[Andre Lower]

Don't quote me on that, but considering the success of the Electro and the perceived market for this sort of board, one of Roland's options would be to slap their VK organ modeler to an upgraded Fantom and offer it with an improved SRX-12 soundset. Going out on a limb (and again shadowing Clavia's market leads) they could also slap some sort of VA to it as well. This would provide a tough competitor for the workstation market at low development cost for Roland.

 

I could be wrong, of course.

 

[burningbusch]

Don't quote me on that, but considering the success of the Electro and the perceived market for this sort of board, one of Roland's options would be to slap their VK organ modeler to an upgraded Fantom and offer it with an improved SRX-12 soundset.

 

Something like this?

 

http://www.roland.com/products/com/G-70/images/top_M.jpg

 

Busch.

[Mark Schmieder]

Yeah, I meant to post earlier that the SRX boards are being blown out, and was likewise curious whether the SonicCell accepts them as that might provide a clue whether they're moving to a new architecture.

 

Seems the Big Three are simultaneously moving on. Korg's M3 isn't compatible with Trion-era expansion boards, correct? And Yamaha of course dumped them altogether (at least for now).

[Andre Lower]

Hmmm...aside from the price tag, I wonder why the G-70 is so seldom mentioned over here. Then again does it actually have the improved SRX-12 soundset? I was also puzzled by the piano, advertised as "based" on that of the Fantom X.

 

Does anyone have a G-70? Could you share your user opinion with us in the forum?

 

BTW, if memory serves me right this is the board that had those texturized black keys...