How does one know when they're good enough?

[Ricardo.]

I was browsing band listings in craigslist and I wondered, how do you know when you're a competent enough guitar player to show up at an audition and blow the competition away? Is it playing over whatever they throw at you? Demonstration of appropriate skill? What makes them pick you over say, whatever steroid-poppin' ( ) shredder that shows up there?

 

I ask because the band I'm in is a nightmare: the frontman is the reason that we/they're horrible. To compound that, we never practice anyways mostly because the drummer always has an excuse not to show up. So I want to get out and play with some new people. But will I be laughed out of the tryouts?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Well, that depends on who you're trying out for doesn't it?

 

Bands don't have a standard level of proficiency. That's why you've got Steve Vai's band on the one side and the Sex Pistols on the other.

 

But there's quite a few ways of knowing. The best is to play with other guitar players and see how you stand in relation to them. If you seriously suck each and every time, then maybe you're not ready for another band. Of course, what you will probably find is that you will suck compared to some guys and fit in well with others. And some guys will suck so badly in comparison to you that you won't even bother asking.

 

You could also try playing along with records and see what you can come up with. I personally like playing along to TV commercials because the music changes every thirty seconds. That's a good idea because it improves your ability to pick up songs and that's handy if someone's trying to show you 15 different songs in one sitting.

 

And anyway, you will probably work out a lot about the prospective band from talking to them on the phone prior to rocking up to the audition. If they say things like "we have a 30 year career and have often headlined festivals", you may not be ready for them. If they say anything else, you will need to make up your own mind.

 

Lastly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with failing an audition. Often it's not a matter of chops, it's a matter of taste, chemistry or whatever. So don't be afraid to try, unless it's for the Rolling Stones or something.

[Hardtail]

Are you wanting to join a band that does covers, originals or a little of both?

 

If the former, if you want to "blow the competition away", know a decent amount of tunes from beginning to end. Don't go to an audition with a bunch of songs half-assed learned (with only the good guitar parts). Know the whole thing.

[The Geoff]

Originally posted by Starcaster:

I was browsing band listings in craigslist and I wondered, how do you know when you're a competent enough guitar player to show up at an audition and blow the competition away? Is it playing over whatever they throw at you? Demonstration of appropriate skill? What makes them pick you over say, whatever steroid-poppin' ( ) shredder that shows up there?

 

I ask because the band I'm in is a nightmare: the frontman is the reason that we/they're horrible. To compound that, we never practice anyways mostly because the drummer always has an excuse not to show up. So I want to get out and play with some new people. But will I be laughed out of the tryouts?

I've just joined a band I'm very happy with.

 

I'm no great virtuoso guitarist - far from it. I'm mainly a 'chord merchant' who can do a bit of simple lead & some vocals - but the band was at *my* level and we dovetailed quite nicely.

 

The lead guitar can do a few things I can't do and vice-versa and we seem to work well together.

 

The other thing I can offer is experience - I played regularly for 20 years - and these blokes (all between 45 & 60) are still on a learning curve.

 

They have a strong practice-ethic, though, turning up every Saturday to practice for 4 or 5 hours (it's as much a social thing).

 

So don't play yourself down. Go out & jam, answer ads and give it a go. You'll meet groups where it's obvious they are above you, and some who are behind you, but you'll gain something from it all, and you *will* find a band at *your* level.

 

It won't happen on its own - you'll need to get up on your hind legs & go looking, but it's surprising how much is out there when you really start looking.

 

Luck,

 

Geoff

[Tedster]

You're never "good enough". You can always be better... but that doesn't answer the question.

 

As others have said, I think it's more of a personality fit than anything else. First of all, do you fit what the band is looking for? If you're like me, a 49 year old, graying, chunky blues guitarist, auditioning for an emo band of 22 year olds, good luck. Or, vice versa...if you're a 22 year old skinny emo guy auditioning for a pack of geezers, bad fit.

 

The best thing you can be is competent. Auditioning might not be all about chops, but again, it depends on who you're auditioning for. I've heard people who could shred all day long, but couldn't play one song straight through.

[Braxat]

its not only the playing either, attitude towards other band members counts alot also

[Pappy P]

Listen to Tedster:

 

That's the best advice I can give.

 

As far as blowing away the competetion.

--Practice, always practice

--Find out who your competition is.

--Focus on what you need to beat them.

 

Will you always win. That is hard to say.

 

When trying to pick up girls or guys, does one always win. I guess if you sta the right thing and have the confidence to close the deal.

 

How do you do that with guitars? Get yer game down. Know everything you can. Have a trained ear for chord and key changes. Know all your scales and guitar theory and chord theory, etc. etc.

 

Be confident, adaptable and creative.

 

But then again, as with any lasting releationship, you need to be honest and be yourself.

 

That means you will always be improving.

 

Jes remember my son, there will always be someone better.

[Dr. Ellwood]

I'm not sure of your abilities on guitar? but Forum's are about different perspectives, so here is yet another one. It is a wonderful thing to become very proficient on your instrument and to prepair yourself to do battle on the fret board and it's one of my favorite sports! but I would say if you want to do yourself a big favor in becomming a WANTED MAN in bands is to LEARN HOW TO SING!! yes of coarse keep going on your guitar playing but SINGING will make becomming a working band member happen for you!! THAT is a GUARANTEE!!! That's how you never worry about that shredder,sing well,play guitar well with the material you know, walk up to the mike at an audition, give the band the progression and key and sing... that shredder won't stand a chance!

[Guitar55]

If you are going to audition for band, here's my advice.

 

Talk to them first, try and get a feel for how they think about themselves. Do they consider themselves beginners, or more experienced? If they do covers, do they copy them note-for-note or do they interpret them? If they do originals, can they tell you about their influences? Ask what they expect from a guitarist. Also, ask if they can provide you with a tape of the band. Be prepared, be confident and, just in case, be ready for disappointment (either in yourself or in them).

 

Good luck!

[baronedo]

Try to find a niche that's right for you. Make sure you're comfortable with the style of music, the age brackets of the other members, etc. If it looks like there may be a good fit, go to the audition. If lead guitar is not your speciality, avoid bands looking for a hot shredder.

 

Once you decide to audition, try to play tastefully with minimal mistakes and avoid playing TOO LOUD. Our group is not quiet by any means, but I've passed on otherwise good new band members who play at one constant and deafing volume. This is a recipe for a volume war with no dynamics. Things like this are more important than raw talent. It's okay to crank it up a little for a guitar lead, but afterwards tone down and let the predominant other instrument or vocal take over.

[Bbach1]

You know Starcaster, this thread is interesting timing because I've been wondering the same thing. I don't actually care about "blowing away" any competition, I just wonder how my playing would fit in when jamming with total strangers.

 

By the way, does anybody else wonder how many years in a row Tedster is going to claim to be 49?

[MILLO]

Good enough for what? It totally depends on the music to be played and proficiency of the others.

 

If the White Stripes were looking for another guitarist, I have students that have played for less than a year that would be good enough to audition for them.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by MILLO:

Good enough for what? It totally depends on the music to be played and proficiency of the others.

 

If the White Stripes were looking for another guitarist, I have students that have played for less than a year that would be good enough to audition for them.

[Funk Jazz]

if you have to ask, you should probably stick with the woodshed until you know.

[Big Red 67]

Dude just make damn sure you have fun!!!

[Ricardo.]

Thanks for all the advice; especially Ellwood's as my dad (my harshest rock/guitar-hating critic) is always telling me that I'm not going anywhere unless I sing. Guess there's some truth to that.

 

Anyways, you may be right FunkJazz; but I'm impatient and want to start as soon as possible I jam with other local kids at my high-school and I'm able to play over anything they lay down; I suppose I'd only have trouble with something that's very theory heavy, like a modal jazz trio or something O.o

 

Thanks again for the help; I can always count on some serious advice from here. Since I've got the day off I think I'll work on some demoes, and then make a topic about how I haven't gotten inspiration yet.

[picker]

I guess the queston, if you have to sing to be going anywhere, is "where are you going?" DO you wanna be a pro, or just a guy who plays because he loves it? If the former, you'll never stop practicing, learning, nd growing if you do it right. If the latter, who cares if you sing or not? Do what you like, and if you're lucky, you get to make a living at that.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Picker:

I guess the queston, if you have to sing to be going anywhere, is "where are you going?" DO you wanna be a pro, or just a guy who plays because he loves it? If the former, you'll never stop practicing, learning, nd growing if you do it right. If the latter, who cares if you sing or not? Do what you like, and if you're lucky, you get to make a living at that.

Picker, I do know what you mean, but would you agree that a young player just starting out and working on things that will help him get more fun out of playing (in a band) should while he's learning his chops on guitar ALONG with it work on singing! the question is WHY NOT? they work together don't they! most guys learn guitar THEN start to work on vocals like it's TWO phases..it dosen't have to be split it can and should be done at the sametime. Vocals help your guitar playing and your guitar playing helps your vocals because of ear training. It can do you no harm!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Anyway... it's not JUST about the chops and, seeing as you're going to have to contact the prospective band to ask where to meet them for the audition, use that contact to try and work out whether you (as in you and the band) would be a good fit anyway.

 

It's too easy to say "I just wanna be in a band", so try and make sure you yourself understand what sort of band you want to be in. One that gigs? One that plays the occasional party for laughs? One that just records? (yes, Virginia, there are such bands)

 

After that, think about the sort of stuff you need to know about the band, such as

• What style do they play? (the little bit that bands write about "influences" in their ads is usually bullshit and/or wishful thinking). And if they are a covers band, they'll be happy to tell you what covers they do
  
• How much experience do they have?
  
• Why they are looking for a guitarist anyway? Is it a new band? Are you expected to take over Steve Morse's job? Did they decide to add a second guitar? An important, key question is: why did the last guy leave?
  
• What do they want to do with the band? Play in their garage for the social thing? Do gigs? Play a one off?
  
• As ppl have pointed out, age can be a deciding factor too, so don't be afraid to ask what their average age is.
  

 

So it's a bit like looking for any other kind of job.

 

Asking these sorts of questions upfront will save you a lot of time and hassle.

 

If you can contact the band by phone, go for it. You can learn a lot from a person's tone of voice, etc. which would normally be edited out of an email or a txt msg.

[Alaskanblue]

Excellent advice so far, another way to know if you're good enough is to record yourself. Either playing along with tunes and/or jams with friends or something on your own. Pick material that you know and record yourself all the way through-as was suggested earlier, know the songs completely! If you can listen to yourself with an unbiased ear you'll figure out what's what-recordings usually don't lie.

[Alaskanblue]

forum leader please delete-doubled up post!

[picker]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Picker, I do know what you mean, but would you agree that a young player just starting out and working on things that will help him get more fun out of playing (in a band) should while he's learning his chops on guitar ALONG with it work on singing! the question is WHY NOT? they work together don't they! most guys learn guitar THEN start to work on vocals like it's TWO phases..it dosen't have to be split it can and should be done at the sametime. Vocals help your guitar playing and your guitar playing helps your vocals because of ear training. It can do you no harm!

Nothing against players who sing, I have been one all my musical life. The more skills you have, the more marketable you are, yes, musical disciplines do tend to enhance each other.

 

My point is that no one should think they have deficient skills if all the do is play guitar. A lot of pros have never sang much on their records and have done quite well. Jeff Beck comes to mind, so does Joe Satriani.

 

If you wanna sing and play, got to it. It will make you more desireable to more bands. But if all you wanna do is play, give it all you got and don't worry about it. That's all I meant.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Short answer, survey says: when you're comfortable and confident with the given material.

 

There are other factors involved, not the least of which is personal "chemistry", interaction between the band-members and prospective players auditioning. Also common goals concerning said band.

 

What you need to focus on is simply being comfortable and confident with what you're playing; systematically eliminate or alter anything that impedes you there.

 

Comfortable confidence and being at ease will go a long ways in making a good impression in an audition situation.

[TELEBOY]

nice to see ya again caevan

[Eric VB]

Ah, high school. Those were the days!

 

Along with the school jazz band, I played in several garage bands, too. Always with kids my age; maybe a little older.

 

When I was 11, the guitar player in the jazz band (also 11) was already gigging with a wedding band (where everyone else was 18+.)

 

Anway, when I auditioned at that age it was more along the lines of a "playground invitation": "You play bass?", "Yeah.", "I play guitar.", "Cool.", "Wanna get together and jam?", "Sure."

 

I did a couple of school talent shows (have a trophy for 1st place in 6th grade -- woohoo! ), and by playing in the jazz band most kids knew I played. They even got to hear me, so they knew at what level I played. In some ways that was like an audition, too. (Nowadays it's the "open mike night" jams.)

 

Speaking of which, those open mikes are great places to sink or swim. Some are held at coffee shops, so there's no problem being under 18 (or 21). The ones I go to are more for the singer/songwriter, but there are others where you can just "sit in" with the band.

 

Go out and watch one. Next time, have at least three popular songs well rehearsed, bring your gear and sign up! Sitting in is tons easier than doing the solo singer/guitarist thing, IMO, but don't be afraid to try that if you think you can pull it off. Most of all, try to relax. It's usually your worst performance that gets you noticed (in a good way), and if you really stink, chances are nobody will remember you a month from now (especially if you didn't spend the entire two hours waiting for your turn bragging to everyone about how great you are ).

 

Oh, and don't be intimidated at those. The guy I know that hosts open mikes invited a percussionist -- musta been about 14 -- to come to the coffee shop and play bongos while he sang and played guitar. The bongo playing wasn't that spectacular. It was a receptive crowd, though, so everyone applauded. Sometimes us old guys just want to give back, and we'll cut you young guys some slack every now and then, you know?

 

Like when I was, oh 16? My parents took me somewhere where the place had hired a band. During a break I started talking with the bass player. He ended up inviting me to play, so I agreed, thinking it would be one song. Uh, it turned into an entire set! (Probably because there weren't a lot of people there and I wasn't stinking up the joint. ) I ended up buying the guys amp later on. Anyway, all the guys were great and helped clue me in on the breaks and stuff. It was mostly '50s and Elvis, stuff I'd never played before.

 

If you're going to try the Craig's List thing -- or answer ads thumb tacked up at the music store -- just keep in mind that a lot of those will be for bands looking to gig in bars, and they'll want 18-and-over. You don't want to waste anybody's time (especially yours). Just be up front about it (if you're under 18) on the phone before going to an audition.

 

It'll be tough, too. You'll scour all the ads for an entire week, then get desperate when nothing new comes up that really suits you, so you just start answering ads. Try not to do this, either. Be patient.

 

OTOH, don't dismiss every ad you see, either. Use good judgement. If it's a reggae band, and you only know speed metal, it probably ain't gonna work out.

 

Along those lines, it never hurts to broaden your musical horizons. Maybe you love speed metal, but you could still learn 5-10 reggae tunes. Now even though it may not be your first choice, you could still audition with some confidence for the reggae band. Maybe they have a 60-song playlist, but at least you know a few of those already, and you can play the style correctly.

 

Ok, I know I'm a ramblin' man here. Let me try to pull it all together now.

 

The only way you'll know if you're ready is when you try. Don't be afraid of failure; it happens to everybody. Pick yourself up and improve yourself if necessary. Be professional. Don't be late and don't "false advertise" yourself. (We all have to market ourselves, but don't show up for a Beatles tribute band audition saying you know the Beatles when you only know one of their songs.) Try not to be so obnoxious no one can stand to be around you, but don't be a "wall flower" either.

 

Finally, practice. Have at least 10 solid songs you can perform well straight through, no stopping. (The more, the better.) If you want to be in an original band, have at least 5 originals ready to go. (If you're not a singer, it's ok if they don't have lyrics.) Be prepared to answer that dreaded question, "Well, what do you know how to play?"

 

[Oh, and if you're going to learn to sing -- good idea, btw -- you might as well give harmonica a go, too. Keep in mind, though, that it takes time to develop and maintain any instrument -- including voice -- so the more you pick up, the less time you'll have for guitar.]

[Gifthorse]

I haven't jammed with many outside my band but I do know the most important thing about playing with others is listening to them and hearing them.

 

If you can do this, it is easier to fit into the scheme of things and not do too much or too little. Being dynamic is difficult because it requires alot of teamwork. Everyone has to listen. One guy can't make it dynamic, it is better when everyone is listening (of course a dynamic drummer is a start).

 

I think every band is lookin for something different. Some bands are looking for a lead guy who plays like SRV, some guys want a lead guy who can shred, some bands want a guy who doesn't play any leads. Some bands are great, some bands are ok, some bands suck.

 

Impossible to really define any guidelines beyond maybe learning some covers and then making sure you listen to them first before you react.

[Gifthorse]

When you are good enough, you think of something cool and it materializes. That would be neat.