ElmerJFudd
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Posts posted by ElmerJFudd
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I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6? Thommann sells Medeli but I'm having a hard time finding any reviews - it's apparently graded and owners say lighter feeling than other hammer weight actions.
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Powerful compared to PX-5S/560 and CP-40.
In this regard the SP6 technology wise is quite a bargain.
Although latest technology doesn't always equate to subjectively better sounding.
The real question is how well does the SP6 action play?
Also subjective, although typically a crappy feeling action is recognized for what it is. I haven't played the SP6 yet, but I don't care for the TP-100 on the cheaper Kurzweils to begin with.
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Awesome pick for the organ purist with a realist's streak in your bones.
Have you tried to gig with it yet?
How's moving it around?
Are you using a case of some kind?
Did you order any extras? Stand, pedals, etc?
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Kurzweil tells us that their new SP6 packs a new LENA processor, patented FlashPlay technology, 128-voice polyphony and powerful DSP into a highly-portable (27.25lb/12.36kg) stage piano designed for performing artists and studio musicians. This is what they have to say about it...
Its 88 keys offer the fully-weighted, hammer-action feel of an acoustic grand with high-definition piano sounds enhanced by "K.S.R. - Kurzweil String Resonance". Its KB3 ToneReal Organs emulate classic Hammond, Vox and Farfisa models with real-time performance controls. The SP6 features 256 Factory Programs in 10 instrument categories, with space for 1024 User Programs. Users can easily create Split and Layered configurations with up to 4 Zones in Multi Mode.
A simple and intuitive user interface offers quick and customizable access to the SP6's 2 Gigabytes of sounds, 20 MIDI controllers, up to 4 arpeggiators and 32 simultaneous FX units. Access a broad library of programs and tailored sounds from Kurzweil's Forte, Forte SE and PC3 Series. Utilize Mac OS X, Windows PC and iOS editors (available soon) for deeper access to the SP6's powerful VAST engine. Connect to the outside world with USB and MIDI connections, a headphone output and stereo audio outputs with 32-bit DACs.
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2017/09/19/new-kurzweil-stage-piano/
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Something related to the external midi processing. A little tricky to narrow down wether it's on the Gemini side (at the MIDI io or in the software) or the sending device. This description makes me suspicious of the Gemini though. Definitely something to alert Crumar/GSi about so they can try to replicate and narrow down the culprit.
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$1295 surprise, surprise.
Will surely be a competitive at this price point with a PX-5S or 560.
Now, how does the Medeli action compare to Casios?
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Can you guess which organ is playing?
[video:youtube]
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Most boards in entry level pricing are still using ROMs.
Flash RAM is found on the various Nord models, Kurzweil Forte (2gb on Forte SE and SP6 to hold Kurz library, only Forte and Forte 7 has 3.3gb for users to upload to), and Yamaha Montage which has 1.75gb for users to load into. Flash RAM can be added to the MOXF models via user installable cards (512mb or 1024mb at a time). Open to user and third party development unlike Nord where the library is closed to their proprietary format. GSi is doing the same/similar with the Gemini products. Flash RAM for storage but not open to user or third party development.
Again, same tech basically - just different philosophies on how to allow users to use it.
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Also...
- I keep wondering what the advantage of FlashPlay really is, beyond allowing Kurzweil to add a lot of sample ROM relatively inexpensively. I mean, that's great, but I sort of want more flexibility akin to Nord's sample-loading approach. Maybe that's down the road.
The Forte has 3.3 GB of non-volatile flash memory that supports .WAV, .AIF (up to 16 bit / 96kHz) and Kurzweil formats (.P3K, .KRZ, .K25, .K26). This dwarfs the Nord Stage 3's sample synth which provides only 480mb of storage for their sample synth which supports only .WAV and is single layer with rudimentary controls.
Forte also has 16gb from Kurzweil's library onboard all the time. Nord has a growing library but the Nord Stage 3 with pianos for example only hold 2gb at any one time.
Different ideas on how to accommodate their customers needs and different priorities on how much storage to include on their hardware (processing power, polyphony, split/layers, multi fx, etc.). Simplicity vs. capability and finding the balance that resonates with their users.
Personally I'd love to see them both Nord and Kurz not so reliant on Fatar for their actions. Assuming that will not change in the near future or ever... It would be nice to see a Forte and or Stage 3 rack or desktop to use with the stage piano of our choice. I suppose this is why guys go for a 61/73k synth action model and mount over a CP4 or MP7 or something with MIDI.
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It looks like the innards would be near the same as the Forte SE. The case, action, and UI/controls and screen being the big difference, and they've turned off a few things to make sure there's no confusion between why this model is over a grand less.
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If you use an mixer or multi input av direct box you can use iPad.
I'd be very surprised if the editor let you do a great deal programming wise.
When they say you can download more sounds, I presume they mean programs as opposed to additional samples?
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They're in a strange new world at Kurzweil.
How to avoid alienating the base (which is an awful lot of pro users) and attract some new fans.
With the full size 88k instruments I think they should focus on players.
To pick up some DJ sales, they should do a VAST VA synth with knobs for every parameter with seq and arp - small keyboard or desktop. Like a cross between a Sledge and a Fantom.
Do they have a tie in, added value with a software developer? They should maybe look for some way they can hook up with Ableton or Propellerheads or something.
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Here's the lineup comparison chart.
http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/forte/product_comparisons/311/
both have 128 poly
Smaller LCD display on the SP6
both have 2gb of flash play samples
no sample memory on the SP6
both have string resonance
SP6 has only 256 factory programs vs. 512 on the SE
SP6 has only 130 Factory Setups/Multis compared to 182 on SE
SP6 has 4 zones, SE 8
They both have some stuff from Kore64 library
SP6 does NOT have VAST editing, where the SE does
Both 32 FX units
The SP6 does NOT have dedicated knobs for Master EQ (this is sort of lame)
No Surf-n-Select sounds navigation on the SP6
No sequencer on the SP6
4 arps on the SP6, 8 on the SE
Same main analog outs on both
No 1/8th" analog ins on the SP6
No digital out on either
No programmable sliders on the SP6, 9 on the SE
4 programmable knobs on the SP6, none on the SE
1 programmable button on the SP6, 11 on the SE
Both have one CC pedal input
Both support half damper on the pianos
Neither have drum pads, ribbon input, or breath control input.
At it's price point, likely between $1 and $1.5k. It's an interesting offering from Kurz, getting quite a bit of the Forte SE (sound wise) in a much cheaper board at half the price.
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The light weight is a bit of a puzzler -- 27 pounds? -- how the hell did they do that without making the playing experience cheesy?
According to product info on the Kurz web site, the SP6 uses a Medeli K6 action. I don't know how it compares with Fatar's TP/100, which would have been obvious choice for a lightweight 88 (and which Kurz has used in the Artis SE and other SP-series boards).
That's the conundrum. Light weight with an action you love to play - developers and players struggle with this trade-off all the time. The SP6 photos are looking like a plastic housing. I am thinking the action is mounted to plastic as well? Or some aluminum in the base? It's not like the TP-100 is favored in scenarios where weight doesn't matter. So, maybe the Medeli action allows them to meet the price point they wanted? Or maybe it actually plays a little better than the TP-100 (which Kurz uses on the SP4). The SP's compete with Casio PX-5S/560. Maybe in the just over $1k price range it steals some folks. 10 velocity curves being offered with this action. One of them has to work decent, right?
SP5 uses LK40GH and ways 46.2lbs - so this is drastic weight cut and they moves the pich and mod wheels upstairs to cut down on length.
The SP4 uses the TP-100 and comes in at 36lbs
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UI is always a good starting place to spend development time.
And although we've come to expect sturdy build from Kurzweil, clearly they're seeing Nord's success with keeping weight down and not really compromising road worthiness.
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Looks like Scott is going to be our first in around here with the 07. Exciting times!
I'll have to settle for shop floor for now... Unless Scott says its a winner. (no pressure to be right about this, scott)
Actually my next round will more likely be a lighter weight stage piano, Grandstage 73, PX-5S or update, MP7 or some update CP4 or some update - tough decision
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Hey MF, I think we were looking for clarity on how to setup the MIDI Solutions box to convert VR sysex messages to drawbar CC messages your kurz understands. It's a one time setup I'm sure, but how involved is the programming?
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http://www.midisolutions.com/products.htm
They've got a $119 box that will take the VR-700's sysex and convert to CC for you. You might already know that, just reminding.
String, brass, reeds and synths is stuff I wish the Mojo 61 had (although they are doing a bang up job on EPs). Also wish it had pitch and mod wheels and 76 keys that played like the VR-700's action. The Mojo61 apparently has a Fatar TP-8O action that they've lightened up the springs on like the Uhl (I can't think of any other mod to a simple action like this that would make it more "buttery" or "feathery").
Would be nice to see Mojo61 owners chime in on your other questions.
I'm watching the Dexibell Combo J7 very closely because in theory it checks some great boxes and the automated faders is interesting:
https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2841193/Dexibell_Combo_J7#Post2841193
Don't know what to expect on this first effort from Dexibell. But would love to see Crumar, Roland, Hammond, or someone pursue an organ-centric combo instrument as opposed to the many piano-centric ones we have today.
Thanks, good info. I didn't know that about the midisolutions box.
Yikes, pitch and especially mod wheels would be missed if I used the Mojo to control synths. Well, certainly there's always a tradeoff involved LOL--even if that tradeoff is having all the options there are, but now you have to cart them around and set them up!
I know in going to something like the Mojo I'd definitely be going all-in on something else doing those extra sounds...but I'm not all that thrilled with the VR700 for them anyway. It's definitely trying to be a jack of all trades, but in some areas (synth notably) it's really not quite into the "useful" status for me anyway.
The whole thing might be moot anyway as I've had no luck selling the VR700 locally. It really is a good keyboard and I should probably appreciate it more than I do.
My personal selection of the VR-700 boiled down to it's do-it-all-ness and it's action. The VR-09 hasn't the action (well, really none of the clone wheels do at the moment to my satisfaction) and requires an iPad app to edit. The SK1 73 breaks the bank, hasn't pitch and mod wheels and the synth samples are not very good (YMMV). I don't care for the tight springyness of the Fatar action in the Nord Electro which also lacks pitch and mod wheels and is expensive as well with no synth engine and only a very simple sample player (although quite capable in AP/EP (like the Mojo61) but that isn't what I personally need or want from an organ/synth action keyboard). Studio Logic's Numa Organ 2 is the right price with the right number of keys, has pitch and mod wheels and the preset keys function as playable in MIDI controller mode. But it has poo for sounds other than organs and would require MIDI to something else to make up for it. So, 7 years later - still looking for a combo organ that does what Roland had in mind with the VR-XXX. I like the VR-700 even more when I also carry my S90ES as a MIDI cable lets me do some very cool things between the two (I have the DX and AN cards). But a CP4 or MP7, PX-5S or 560 make good stage pianos with synth samples (or engine in the Casio) to Midi the VR-700 to.
Another idea that Scott and I bantered on a few weeks back is a Roland FA-07 with a drawbar controller like the Ocean Beach DB-1 (which are unfortunately discontinued). A single manual DMC-121 or a 73/76 key Mojo61 with the full Gemini dual DSP hardware and pitch/mod wheels would be more useful (to me). And I suspect others too. And If they come in under an Electro or SK. Boom! Crumar for the win.
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http://www.midisolutions.com/products.htm
They've got a $119 box that will take the VR-700's sysex and convert to CC for you. You might already know that, just reminding.
I know you have the VR700, have you done this yourself? I looked into this on one of the Rolands, I don't remember which (maybe VR09?) and it seemed complicated.
I haven't. I picked up this notion from Mighty Ferguson who apparently owns two VR-700s and the MIDI solutions converter box. You can try messaging him. I'll do the same when the time comes - but haven't a need at the moment.
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A lot of these demos seem to be showing three layers. A lead instrument, a chordal instrument and a monophonic bass patch (I am guessing that's how the player is chording but getting the single note bass sample attack with the left hand? How is the firmware discerning lowest pitch is the bass note that should sound? Or is his pinky playing beneath the split point?)
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http://www.midisolutions.com/products.htm
They've got a $119 box that will take the VR-700's sysex and convert to CC for you. You might already know that, just reminding.
String, brass, reeds and synths is stuff I wish the Mojo 61 had (although they are doing a bang up job on EPs). Also wish it had pitch and mod wheels and 76 keys that played like the VR-700's action. The Mojo61 apparently has a Fatar TP-8O action that they've lightened up the springs on like the Uhl (I can't think of any other mod to a simple action like this that would make it more "buttery" or "feathery").
Would be nice to see Mojo61 owners chime in on your other questions.
I'm watching the Dexibell Combo J7 very closely because in theory it checks some great boxes and the automated faders is interesting:
https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2841193/Dexibell_Combo_J7#Post2841193
Don't know what to expect on this first effort from Dexibell. But would love to see Crumar, Roland, Hammond, or someone pursue an organ-centric combo instrument as opposed to the many piano-centric ones we have today.
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Ooo, that's a great add. This thing must be arriving soon. They say, "DEXIBELL COMBO J7 the one and only organ with motorized Draw-Faders and over 100 top quality sounds including legendary Pianos from VIVO". That's funny - the VIVO pianos are "legendary"?
Most have never seen or heard one in person yet. But regardless, thanks for keeping an eye out:
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Right, obviously more valuable in recording situations than live band situation. Although it is likely nice solo with good amplification as well.
I don't know what price point they'd hit with this. Ya, of course if the Leslie isn't doing it for you you could Vent as with even cheapie others like the VR-09. However I don't know if I'd spend what they're are likely asking for this if I didn't like the organ engine - I mean I'd immediately pass on it. The desktop Gemini isn't cheap at $1149. Maybe your suggesting the value might be in the automated faders being able to send CC.
Kurzweil SP6
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Any reviews / reputation on how it holds up?
I think, like Casio - they may use this "hammer action" across the line.
No information on their site about action designs, or tiers between their stage, consoles, and grand consoles.
It's a shame we can't get our hands on a Kurzweil or Nord for that matter with an action like the better Kawai or Yamaha digital pianos with all the time and effort they put into DSP hardware, software, sampling, synthesis, patch programming, etc. Would be nice to see a Forte or Stage desktop or rack. But I guess that's why you get an NS3 Compact and pick a CP4 or MP7 to put under it. I wonder if they'll do a Forte 6. If not, I guess the Artis7 is as close as we'll get.