ElmerJFudd
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Posts posted by ElmerJFudd
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Typically how do you guys attach the extra drawbars? Voce, DB-1. I would imagine the matching Mojo version may dream up something Mojo61 specific. Otherwise Velcro?
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I see on the Crumar Facebook feed they are contemplating a drawbar box to place on top of the Mojo61 to control the lower manual. I wonder if it would take the USB or MIDI in port? Would the Ocean Beach DB-1 work? I'm thinking yes, since the Gemini card takes CC's for drawbars.
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Continuous. My FV500L works perfectly.
Cool, how else is it currently implemented?
Other patches using it? Assignable? Could it be set to any CC#? (if they updated the sample set with some synth patches)
Is it local only, or can it send to MIDI out? Like if you velcro'd a Dave Smith desktop synth to it.
Does the firmware support sending a program change?
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Thanks, Mate. Sheesh. It would be ridonculous otherwise. Is this jack continuous, momentary, on/off?
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you could go old school and do what people did on real clavs... but a wah pedal on it!
Fair but defeats the purpose of including the wah in software. And every piece of kit you need to pickup for what the firmware may already support adds to the cost of the thing as well. Not that an EV5 should be included, but give it a port, or a wheel... something. But ok, it's just an organ... or is it? Apparently it's more. And if it checks of the right boxes for some, great.
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First of all, is the NanoKontrol actually connected directly to the Mojo? If so, that's very cool. I wasn't aware of any board other than Kronos where you could directly plug in a USB control surface.the hardware user interface could have benefited from a few more input devices - some more knobs, wheels, extra faders or drawbars, ribbon control.. whatever is necessary to use what the internal engines can do.
It sounds like maybe you're almost talking about a DMC-122 with a Gemini module.
I see the Mojo as (as you put it), more of an organ than a digital swiss-army-knife keyboard. It's easy to fall into "feature creep" -- "If only it had a few other sounds I'd need to get me through a gig..." becomes "let's have whatever is necessary to take advantage of what you can do with those sounds." Which means higher price, generally more size/weight (esp. if you then want more than 61 keys), and often additional operational complexity. I think there are probably customers for both. There are some nice things about the NanoKontrol approach... only those who need it have to pay for it (and it's pretty cheap anyway)... and people who prefer the clear panel space for board stacking don't have to give that up.
I don't know, Scott. It's ok for Crumar to get some feedback other than how perfect if is in every way. If the piano patch needs the samples trimmed up on the left or the velocity behavior improved, they need to hear that. Same for users wanting the Clav in tune, or what have you. It's also ok to say the Leslie sim isn't as good as a Vent - or it's as good, or better (lol, we've heard it all). It's also valuable for Crumar to hear why users pass on it. Maybe it doesn't need feature creep... maybe if it has a great Clav sound & a great wah effect - then it could have used a pedal jack, or at least a wheel. Something. YMMV, no worries.
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Needing a nano control or similar is not the slickest thing in the industry. Similar to using a button to pitch bend. Is the Mojo61 an organ or a digital swiss-army-knife keyboard? If the AP and EPs are a feature and not just ancillary "just in case you need them" sounds then the hardware user interface could have benefited from a few more input devices - some more knobs, wheels, extra faders or drawbars, ribbon control, does it have a continuous control pedal input, wah pedal jack?.. whatever is necessary to use what the internal engines can do. It would also make it more useful as a controller if you place a desktop synth on top (or they could have activated the GVA-1) and for use with Mainstage/Cantabile, etc. Looking forward to revisions on this concept from Crumar/GSi. YMMV
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On a side note, Jazz+, this guy just took a Casio PX-160 and chopped it.
You could bring it down to a matching 61 or 73k/76 keys and there's the action you like, compact and light weight to play your Mojo61 APs and EPs.
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Jazz+, are you saying there is a parameter to choose wether a called up sound has its attack at the top or bottom of the key drop? Are there also different curves available to choose from when measuring velocity between initial press and bottom of key drop?
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Of course. So how well does the Mojo61's action and curve(s) manipulate the electric piano models and various other samples that beg for velocity data?
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Well there's also the velocity curve which could just be not matched well to the piano sample set. Jazz+, have you tried reverse? Trigger Casio piano sound from Mojo61 MIDI out. Does the Casio piano sound play like poo from the organ action?
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Jazz+, are you suggesting you've got to the bottom of your laggy acoustic piano issue? Have you tried triggering the Mojo 61's acoustic piano with your PX-350?
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it's only 2 guy's, fellas. They would have to become a larger company to accomplish this.
It's ok to root for team Italia. Most of the work is done - they finished the GSi DMC-121 and the Gemini card. They only need offer additional actions and a model with pitch/mod. Synth patches for the,VA can be commissioned and from what we gather from their responses to critics of the acoustic piano, they are working on it. Should they succeed in the endeavor to compete with the Electro, Stage, Sk1 - it's good for us as Crumar/GSi already has proven they can beat a price point with the Mojo61. It's not hard to beat Nord on price - at least not in the US.
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When they do both 88/76k TP-40L and 73k "compact" organ versions with the full Gemini sample and model sets, now we're talking. The VA synth engine will need some real time spent on presets and the acoustic piano still needs some work to be competitive.
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on same topic, what about the Casio boards that boast triple sensor? Are they actually able to repeat notes from partial lift with on board sound engine? On MIDI out?
Also, Fatar is saying triple sensor on the SL Grand as well, which is same or similar to the NP3. Can the NP3 do the triple sensor dance with the internal sound engine? On MOODY pot? Can the SL88 Grand do it with Garritan CFX or Ivory?
If not, the tech isn't effective and we've been victims of marketing again.
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This came up a few weeks ago.
It's a pretty small difference in distance from the real deal.
I'll find the thread/post...
Maybe AnotherScott remembers the exact figure.
He's got a memory like an elephant I tell you!
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Cool! I hear Reason's PX7 can use DX7 patches as well.
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You cant get much more 80s synth power than this: Eno. DX7. Keyboard Magazine.
http://cdm.link/app/uploads/2017/05/Brian_Eno_Yamaha_DX7_Patches-738x1024.jpg
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Is there any info on this single manual Key B besides just the photo?
I do like the the fact that all adjustment knobs are on top, not on the side.
That was one of the plus factors on the Numa 1... the bass knob was on the right side. What that did was act sort of like a set of drawbars on the lower manual setting. All I do on a console is adjust the first and third DB for the lower manual anyway.... but it was nice to have bass adjustment and still play bass with the left hand.
This thing looks tempting. I woulld love to have single/ dual manual options. So this might be the ticket.
Nothing here:
http://www.viscountinstruments.com/vintage.html
What's the source of the photo? Fan art? Photoshop alteration?
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Wouldn't this be how Crumar would troubleshoot it? Also, I don't know about you but without equipment to measure how can anyone distinguish 14-18 milliseconds? I mean really...... I couldn't tell you if a particular latency is 4 milliseconds or 64 milliseconds. Only Sven is able to do that.......
Correct, a piano player would be hard pressed to tell the difference between 14 and 18ms. But you can between less than 5 and 18ms. The keyboard starts to feel mushier as you increase latency until you get to a point where you say, this doesn't feel tight
Then you break 20-25ms and you say the attack is just plain late and I am compensating by hitting everything earlier than its supposed to be. Remember as suggested above, that reported 18ms from the sound engine doesn't include signal from the action's controller or the additional pass through DA or the distance between you and your monitor. It adds up quick.
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"Are you saying the Mojo61 is significantly slower in response to a Casio PX-360?"
"Have you experimented with any piano sample libraries like Garritan CFX or Synthogy Ivory before?"
Yes
Elmer Fudd, do you own a Mojo 61?
You know how it goes around here when being critical of Crumar/GSi/Mojo/Gemini/DMC-122. You sharing the response from Crumar clears this up a bit and takes some heat off you. I mean, some folks that haven't noticed it might near suggest it's in your head rather than a bug.
No, I don't own it. It's not what I am looking for. But I am interested in them pursuing future instruments that fill my needs more effectively and not exhibiting what you're describing.
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For comparison, when using Logic or Mainstage we've long tried to push buffer settings down to get better latency performance between MIDI in from controller and audio out to our ears. All digital instruments suffer from latency, so I'm surprised, Jazz+ that you haven't been more critical of other digital instruments. Are you saying the Mojo61 is significantly slower in response to a Casio PX-350? Have you experimented with any piano sample libraries like Garriton CFX or Synthogy Ivory before? I know I'm sensitive to latency, negligible at around 5ms or less but quickly becomes noticeable at 10, 15, 16, 17ms etc. (or at least that's what the software is reporting to me when I start to feel it).
But point being... here is a guy playing the Yamaha Avant Grand N3 as controller only. He's running MIDI to a Mac hosting Garritan CFX. I'm not sure how low he has been able to get the buffer, but clearly it's not wrecking his technique or ability to play fast.
[video:youtube]
So, is there something else at work here with the Mojo61 that you are noticing? Laggy doesn't define it enough perhaps. Late? not able to keep up in some way? As in, dropped notes or missing attacks? In which case, could it be the action and the messages it is sending to the sound engine? Maybe on your unit specifically? Or could it be the trigger point? A polyphony issue?
>>>> was posting while you shared the response from Crumar. OK, so Crumar is saying there are known bugs with their 4 month old acoustic piano software and are working on it. Possible the "lag" is a symptom of some other things going on under the hood.
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^^^
Crumar/GSi was running a PC morher board in their Mojo - the reason being that they had already invested time and energy in the x86 software and it had become economically feasible to stick a PC in an instrument. I'm going to assume a light install of Windows was used - although it may have been Linux or Ubuntu or one of those. I'm sure guys that have had to go into their Mojo to fix something know for sure. I wonder if it was under MS's radar out or if they paid MS a fee for the OS on each unit sold?
With the DMC-122 they took the bold step of designing their own DSP hardware and the time to port (or program from scratch) all the stuff Guido had already done for x86 (and OSX in some cases). That's a lot of fricken work - but I'm sure it will yield lower component costs, give them more control over their instruments, and possibly protect their intellectual property.
The Mojo61 seems to be a single DSP Gemini? So I guess it can run any of the models and samples that run on the Gemini. So it could have and could yet get a VA synth, any of the other sample work they've done, the trumpet model, etc. The issue is the controls or lack there of on the Mojo61 and size- maybe type of screen.
It's a pretty cool organ and electric piano centric first effort at a competitive price. It's aesthetics and design are less niche than the DMC-122. When the single manual DMC shows up or however they brand it - UltraMojo-73, that will be pretty exciting. Easily undercutting the Nord Stage's price point and besting the Hammond SK1 in sound engines.
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Hi, guys. Following up on this.
So I got Jamkazam installed on my iMac and the singer's MacBook Pro and tried it out last night for first rehearsal.
On the MacBook he used internal 3.5mm jack for headphones and a USB mic. Software reported the interface was getting something like 5ms latency.
On my side, I was using an Apogee Quartet for mic input and keyboard input. Software reported my audio device was getting 13ms latency. This I do not understand, as there is no option to lower buffer - on the Jamkazam forums they say the Mac software always attempts to connect at lowest possible latency. I can get better performance from Logic with the Quartet so not sure what's up with Jkzm.
Anyway, with just the two of us we were able to practice. It's not perfect, there is additional latency in the internet connection and there is definitely jitter. But it is substantially better than FaceTime or Skype (which is really unuseable to perform live in sync). For me, the trick is accepting where the vocal is falling in time as the singer's choice (although it's latency that's doing it) and keeping my tempo steady no matter what. The moment you start adjusting to match the singer (reacting as we would normally in the same room), then he/she starts compensating as well and then it never really jives or feels good.
So at the moment I give it a "much better than nothing". We were able to speak, go over how the arrangements would go, talk about tempos, get a feel for how it will be when we play live. Work out harmonies, etc. etc. If you can stay together with the latency and drift in Jkzm you will be overjoyed when actually in the room together for a gig.
- not sure if the Jmkzm hardware would improve latency and jitter. Also not sure why the Quartet is not doing what it's capable of with the software. Will have to experiment some more. If anyone has ideas, I am all ears.
My next test will be testing NINJAM. If I am understanding correctly, they are using similar technique to online games. Buffering the music for everyone to ensure delivery at the right time for all. If I understand correctly, everyone plays to a click and there is a count-off to build up buffer. Streaming starts for everyone in time. That's really interesting.
DeepMind 12 vs Virus TI2
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