pjd

I'm thinking that the issue is somehow on the Linux side -- as if the ongoing amidi dump establishes a "connection" to the MODX port and the concurrent amidi send commands can exploit the "connection". At this point, I don't have much in the way of working hypotheses. 😞

Hi -- Saw your messages and replies on Yamaha Musicians Forum. I made similar progress working on a Raspberry Pi. MODX is connected directly to the Pi -- no hub. Input worked fine as shown below. pjd@raspberrypi:~ $ aconnect -l client 0: 'System' [type=kernel] 0 'Timer ' 1 'Announce ' client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel] 0 'Midi Through Port-0' client 24: 'MODX' [type=kernel,card=2] 0 'MODX MIDI 1 ' 1 'MODX MIDI 2 ' 2 'MODX MIDI 3 ' pjd@raspberrypi:~ $ amidi -l Dir Device Name IO hw:2,0,0 MODX MIDI 1 IO hw:2,0,1 MODX MIDI 2 IO hw:2,0,2 MODX MIDI 3 pjd@raspberrypi:~ $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -d 90 48 3F 90 48 00 90 4A 3C 90 4A 00 90 47 30 90 47 00 90 43 3C 90 43 00 90 40 37 90 40 00 90 3C 22 90 3E 22 90 3E 00 90 3C 00^C 42 bytes read Now the weird part. I ran the dump command, amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -d, in one terminal window and sent Note ON/Note OFF messages from a separate independent terminal window: pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "90 47 3F" pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "80 47 0" pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "90 47 3F" pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "80 47 0" Note ON/Note OFF are successful while the dump command is running. Kill the dump command and Note ON/OFF stops working. This behavior is repeatable. Feel free to post this info to Yamaha Musicians Forum along with a "Hi!" and my regards. I just don't have time to interact on many forums... -- pj Music tech blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

Wish I had taken some spare talent to yesterday's gig. 🙃 Keep on rockin' -- pj

MODX Owner's Manual, page 55 -- Set “MIDI IN/OUT” to “USB.” Yeah, I know, it's almost insulting to mention it. But, I have been burned so many times when the MODX isn't listening on the intended physical port: 5-pin vs. USB. 🥵 Just by inspection, MIDI note number 16? That seems pretty low for testing purposes. If you send MIDI note 16 to a drum set, for example, you might not get an audible response. Maybe try around middle C (MIDI note number 48 or 60)? As mentioned in my previous post, the first port communicates with the MODX tone generator. I recommend double-checking the settings on the Utility MIDI I/O and Advanced tabs. I agree, if your Linux box can talk to the Nord, it should talk to the MODX. Good luck and good fortune -- pj

MODX Owner's Manual, page 56:

I've given up on GC anywhere in the Seattle area. Had a run-in with a tin guitar god clerk and decided that's it. Why look at empty space and be insulted at the same time? If you're in the Seattle area, I suggest Patchwerks: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/synthesizer-heaven/ I could live there (if they'd let me) and have food brought in -- pj 🙂

Hi Elmer -- Spot on. "Definite", I would say. Looking at their design decisions over product generations, Yamaha's engineers are very deliberate because the hardware and manufacturing are recurring costs. Software engineering is almost all non-recurring, but Yamaha has to cover that non-recurring cost, too. I don't think the coders get away with murder, either. None of the synth/stage platforms sell in huge numbers and they must watch cost carefully to maintain any kind of profit margin. Another sensitive area is choice of display -- lots of design implications there. Someday I'll dive that topic. Totally agree about frequency real estate. We have our drummer about 50% of the time. (Seems like everybody in our group has health issues...) I add a lot of woodwinds over the (acoustic) piano. Add the drummer and kiss subtlety and nuance goodbye! 😀 Add the occasional live trumpet and... On traditional hymns, I go to pipe organ -- I win!!! 😄 All the best -- pj

These are all good comments. As to silicon specifically, when Yamaha designs a processor (SWX or SWP), it is general enough to be used in ALL product lines, i.e., there aren't variants for organ, stage piano, piano or synth. They also plan for at least a 10 year design life -- for those people expecting brand new silicon in every new product, forget it. 🙃 That said, Yamaha carefully select and configure the processor(s) to be used in a specific product in order to implement the feature set at a particular price point. They are really damned good at this. Functional variation between products is established at the host control level (e.g., ARM) and the specific firmware load into the SWX or SWP DSP units. I stopped chasing service manuals for the piano product lines. In the SWP50 era, mid- to high-end products typically required two SWP50 tone generation ICs to achieve target polyphony. VRM equipped instruments, however, required a third SWP50 specifically for effects, e.g., VRM. (Basically, the AWM pipe in the third SWP50 is superfluous.) That's a lot of effort and cost to add VRM -- which must be computationally demanding. This is why VRM doesn't make it into mid- and low-end products. I have no life -- pj 😀

Hammond gets it. If you make an organ keyboard, you put organs in it, including pipe organ. Yamaha adds EDM voices in their latest update. Yamaha still doesn't get it. I need more coffee -- pj P.S. I love the covers-off keys in the Smother's Brothers video. never noticed that before... Stronger than dirt. 😀

Lest anyone forget, Yamaha added AN and VL to AWM ------------ twenty-five years ago. Yamaha EX5 and EX7. 🙂 Too much time chasing unicorns.... 🙃 -- pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/awm-an-and-vl-in-one-yamaha-synth/

I hope they have some flash ROM left after adding the new pianos. 😀 Yamaha need to add the bread and butter orchestra instruments and pipe organs -- now in the CK -- before I pull out the credit card. Enjoy the new update, tho'! -- pj P.S. Forgot to say... Leaving those instruments out left the YC sadly lacking WRT Nord and its library.

I'll let you guys argue about 88-key instruments. 😀 A weight chart for a few Yamaha boards: Montage6 33 pounds (FSX) Genos 28.7 pounds (FSX) MODX6 14.5 pounds (semi-weighted keyboard) CK61 12.4 pounds (FSB) YC61 15.6 pounds (semi-weighted waterfall) CP73 28.9 pounds (BHS) My point being, it would be tough to get the weight down to CK61 range AND include an FSX keybed. Genos has a plastic chassis and a lap-top style internal power supply. I'm not hung up on metal vs. plastic. Whenever anybody whacked either MODX or MOX with their acoustic guitar, it was the acoustic that bore the dent. 🙂 All the best -- pj

Had an early MacBook Air (MC965LL/A 2011) which had thermal issues when performing media-intensive operations -- even under the best conditions. Eventually, I had to do system updates in a Massachusetts-cold garage in order to avoid shut-downs. I tried using it at my church gig and had to reboot in the middle of a service. Total deal killer. I'm having better success with iPad Air 3rd Gen. Less visually intrusive, too. Took major grief about having a computer in the sacristy. All the best -- pj

I always believed that the dates on Yamaha MIDI implementation charts are near the "freeze date" for the software. Yamaha's annual report (you do read those, right? 🙂 ) freely owns up to Pandemic-induced supply chain problems and delays. They also anticipate a bump to the bottom-line as the backlog of new products are released. The PSR-E473 and CKs were delayed and perhaps the Montage unicorn. Yamaha were (are) heavily dependent on Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM) ADCs and DACs. The AKM factory was down for well-over a year due to a fire. Fire, water, smoke are simply catastrophic for a semiconductor plant. 😒 -- pj

This observation and discussion pops up on YamahaSynth.com, too. Phil (Bad Mister) swears that the keybed designs are the same -- if it says GHS, then it's GHS. I try to keep an open mind because players aren't fools. 🙂 The only objective thing I can say is the FSX synth action (Montage, Genos) is definitely better built and more playable (IMHO) than anything in the mid-range (PSR SX or MODX). Pretty much everything else is try-before-buy, Caveat emptor, yada-yada -- pj

If memory serves me right, the MX has a relatively small subset of the Motif XS/MOX arpeggios. The MX does not have Megavoices and any of the arpeggio patterns which rely on Megavoices. The MX waveform ROM is significantly smaller and dropping Megavoice was a way to save ROM space. Probably not a big difference to people who just want to bang away on the danged thing. 😀 I carefully weighed MX vs. MOX at the time, and chose MOX. The extra features and on-board sound editing swung me to MOX. I still have it and it sits in its retirement home having earned its rest. 😘 All the best -- pj

Got to agree -- pretty decent and competitive for $1,000. Yamaha needed a keyboard at the $1,000 mark, again, and got it in CK61. Scott did a terrific YC vs. CK pro/con -- thanks! My concerns about external control and effect editing aside, if I didn't have Casio CT-S1000V in hand, I would probably consider the CK61 as a lightweight second board. (My other car is a Lambo? 🙂 ) But, I feel like I'm in a committed relationship. I just won't throw a keyboard over for a shiny new toy. Love the one you're with and learn it in depth. The CT-S1000V or CT-S500 allow more sound/effect editing. Can't say anything about CK speakers until I hear them, but speakers in a keyboard at this price point are pretty much "courtesy speakers." A player is still going to rely on external powered speakers, PA, whatever even in a small venue. I think Yamaha will sell a bunch of these. Hope to see some of the CK sounds migrate to YC Mk2 someday. All the best -- pj

This was the first thing I searched for in the manual. The only rotary settings that I found (page 43): "Simple rotary speaker effect. Turn the [DEPTH] knob to adjust the volume and distortion level, and the [RATE] knob to adjust the rotation speed." The table on page 43 indicates that the rotary speaker effect is MONO. Even the name, "Simple Rotary," gives me serious pause. I've used and dealt with Yamaha's rotary speaker algorithms on their synths and arrangers. "Simple rotary" implies some kind of utterly simplistic beast. Frankly, I absolutely detest the high rotary speed setting on Reface YC. I no longer use it. The ramp up and ramp down are too fast. None of this is adjustable. I do play the YC -- a lot -- so I cared deeply. Yamaha consistently makes the default speeds too fast. Arranger, synth, whatever. I've spoken about this with Yamaha marketing. Even they know it. Yamaha's development engineers are stubborn to the point of idiocy. I hate to make a statement like that... 😒 As far as I'm concerned, the inability to tweak rotary parameters on an instrument which highlights organ is unacceptable and is a deal-breaker. Sorry to be so freakin' negative -- pj

Definitely recycled Reface YC. Reface YC is 100% AWM2 sample-based. Wot? You expected Yamaha's new modeling tech for $1,000? 🙂 Scott, I agree that CK (and Reface YC) allow individual drawbar control of Farfisa, Vox, etc. MODX has a few individual Farf and Vox samples and the rest are combi's. But, hey, combo organ has three basic settings: ear-piercing, wheezy and less wheezy. 😃 Combo organs and nuance? Scott is doing a public service by deep diving the zone/external control. I don't know how many times I've been burned by idiotic limitations or use of SysEx when it comes to external control. And, of course, it's not just Yamaha. All engineers should be forced to eat their own dog food when it comes to external control! When buying any MIDI controller, buyer beware! Read the manuals before buying. Do mental experiments. Avoid ill-advised purchases. End of sermon. 🤐 Earlier I said that I could recreate all CK sounds on MODX except the (borrowed from Genos/SX900) pipe organs. Actually, I could sample via SampleRobot and create my own pipe organ voices on MODX. I did create my own using library samples. Great discussion, thanks -- pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/combo-organ-reface-yc/ http://sandsoftwaresound.net/combo-organ-montage-modx-genos/ http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-sampling-genos-pipe-organ/ http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-get-started-with-sample-robot/

Rather than categorize musicians or break them down into market segments, it comes down to the personal needs and budget of each individual. Except for the few folks who have worked in musical instrument marketing or retail, we just down have objective statistics. Need. Budget. And then there's "good enough." As to budget, I can relate to the musician who needs to balance off eating, car payments, mortgage/rent, saving for kid's education/whatever, and so forth. I could comfortably buy a YC, but I didn't and won't. I don't want to tie up that much money in gear and the "crap MODX organ" is good enough for our congregation. 🙂 Front panel gizmos and 88 GHS keybed aside, the CK is 100% recycled content. That's not a slag on the CK because the content is Yammie good. However, by deep diving MODX, I can recreate nearly every CK sound using MODX -- and more. So, for me, there is no real need. Learn an instrument in depth and save money. I'm a cheapster -- pj P.S. The CK organ presets which I cannot recreate are the pipe organs. (!) Yammie recycled those from Genos and they're darned good.

Before buying the CK as a controller, best check the slider/knob/button to CC mapping. (See the MIDI implementation part of the manual.) It appears to be preset/fixed and a little bit baroque. Might not be an issue with MIDI learn in a VST, but YMMV. -- pj

Forgot to mention the most interesting point from the manual. Check the date on the MIDI implementation chart: 16-July-2021. Yamaha had this design in the can for a loooooooooong time. COVID and supply chain issues. -- pj

I just updated my CK description page: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-unverified-leakage/ And posted a few opinions/observations while reading the manual: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck-random-bits/ Hope to respond to a few comments here later -- pj P.S. Nice day outside after days of rain in the PNW, and I'm not going to waste it behind a computer. 🙂

Product page is up at yamaha.co.jp (Yamaha Japan). Go to the Downloads tab for the CKs and you will find links to the manuals in Japanese and English. Have fun reading. I’m going to bed. 😀 I pwn an MODX and a CT-S1000V. Nothing to see here. Move along. 😀 It’s been a long day — pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-unverified-leakage/ Organs in Voice List are H, V, F, A, Y — exactly Reface YC. I own one of those, too. Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow. 😴

I had an Alesis Nanopiano a zillion years ago and liked the little fellow. However, it's gone and I can't compare it against anything contemporary. I have and use a V3 Sound Yammex module. It has the same sound content as the V-shaped Grand Piano XXL, but the bank/program numbers are different. There must also be firmware differences, too, because the Yammex doesn't seem to respond to MIDI messages to change the DSP effects. That said, the sound quality is quite good. I bought mine used and I'm glad that I didn't pay full freight given the MIDI issues. Wish there was an update... -- pj