pjd

The YDS caught my eye, too. No mention of MIDI support for the older YDS-150. No YDS-120 manuals yet. I'm not holding out much hope. (Bummer.) -- pj

True that! One (potential) problem with sampled drawbars is unwanted (unrealistic) audible phase differences. AnotherScott and I think Yamaha have made a breakthrough in that regard with YC61/73. No matter what, I've wrung a lot of value out of Reface YC, using it at choral rehearsals. Mini-keys, meh. For me, the main problem is the short 37-key keybed. I have to mentally wrap around either the bass line or the melody in real-time. I detest 37-key anything anymore. All the best -- pj

Man, I so totally agree with you. I'm waiting on YC61 mk2, also. No prob about Reface YC technology. Shows I have no actual life. 😀 I'm going to try to get our pianist to buy a CK. He keeps borrowing my CT-S1000V, so maybe I can borrow his CK. 😁 Peace to all this season -- pj

I'm interested in knowing the answer, too, definitely. Novation make nice products, but this capability is a deal-killer for me. Many MIDI controllers are incapable of specifying and sending a three message sequence (CC#0, CC#32, PC#) in one go, that is, one button press. -- pj

Hello Alkeys -- A lot of us feel your pain including those of us who are favorably disposed toward Yamaha. As to the organ in Reface YC, it is sampled. It is not modeled. Reface YC itself is a lot of recycled technology from both Motif and the arranger product lines. Yamaha arrangers have had a sample-based drawbar mode for literally decades. The rotary algorithm is probably recycled, too. I've got to agree with ElmerJ. Dropping the non-organ, non-key voices from YC61/73 would make it a non-starter for me and other church/worship players. We actually need those extra voices to gig. However, even on that point, I agree about "close, but no cigar." Yamaha left pipe organ (!) out of YC61/73 and a number of essential orchestral instruments. These voices don't take up that much flash waveform ROM. (The new CK is a better "all-rounder" in that regard.) So, what does Yamaha do? They add a bunch of useless-to-me FM EDM patches in the latest update. Cheesh. Courage -- pj P.S. I refuse to buy keyboards for what they might become. I buy them for what they are today.

Hi -- Did a few more simple experiments. I turned LOCAL off and tried a loopback with aconnect, something like "aconnect 24:0 24:0" where 24 is the MODX client. The loopback works fine. Any struck note is returned to the MODX tone generator. I spent about an hour looking at the amidi code. I don't think amidi was intended for anything beyond basic ALSA testing. The internal control flow is a bit baroque. It seems to allow combining -S with -d. So, the command "amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -d -S "90 48 3F"" sends the MIDI note and then awaits bytes from MODX. It actually plays the note! I don't think I would use amidi to send MIDI from a shell script. It might be better to use a simpler program to send MIDI via ALSA without all of the other functional fluff. That would give you a fighting chance to debug the MIDI send issue (if it remains in the new code/program). As to a working hypothesis, I think the sending side hangs (blocks). The dump (-d) code appears to poll the ALSA device and maybe that works around the hang. Might explain why we hear buffered notes when the device finally makes progress. As to why only MODX? Chuh, who knows? All the best -- pj

Hi Mr -G- Yep, I did see the post about MX. I agree that it shoots down the multiple port hypothesis. I'm keeping an open mind as to root cause -- too easy to go down a rat hole when debugging. So, I'm calling it "a failure to communicate", not an MODX issue per se. We're more likely to get a fix on the Linux side than MODX as I doubt if Yamaha see Linux as important. Ironic, because MODX itself runs Linux ... 😃 Can't see which of the squabbling two children are at fault, MODX or Linux. Bugs in Linux? Shocked! Shocked! (Not.) aconnect and amidi detect and show all three MODX ports. I'm wondering if MODX identifies itself differently to Linux than MX (not really knowing how or what a MIDI device reports to Linux when hot plugged.) I still want to look at the amidi code, but I'm running out of time today. There ought to be a way to get this going! -- pj

Hi Mr -G- Spent a few more minutes this morning with experiments. Basically, I confirmed our observations. Tried playing a GM file with aplaymidi. Tried aconnecting vkeybd to the MODX port. No MIDI data is transmitted unless amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -d is running. Weird. Yep, it sounds like a Linux-side issue, not MODX. I would like to use RPi with MODX -- got a few ideas -- and would like to see this work! If I get time later, maybe I'll look at the code for amidi. Thanks for mentioning this thread on the Yamaha Musicians Forum. -- pj

I performed a few more experiments. Connected a Yamaha PSS-A50. It presents only one MIDI port to Linux and worked flawlessly. I connected a MIDI monitor to the MODX 5-pin OUT in order to monitor MIDI THRU behavior (via MODX MIDI port 3). Sent Note ON/OFF to hw:2,0,3 which should be the THRU port (according to the Owner's Manual). I observed similar behavior -- THRU data displays in the monitor when an amidi dump is running concurrently. I smell a rat on the Linux side and it may be related to the MODX presenting three MIDI ports to Linux... About it for today -- pj

I'm thinking that the issue is somehow on the Linux side -- as if the ongoing amidi dump establishes a "connection" to the MODX port and the concurrent amidi send commands can exploit the "connection". At this point, I don't have much in the way of working hypotheses. 😞

Hi -- Saw your messages and replies on Yamaha Musicians Forum. I made similar progress working on a Raspberry Pi. MODX is connected directly to the Pi -- no hub. Input worked fine as shown below. pjd@raspberrypi:~ $ aconnect -l client 0: 'System' [type=kernel] 0 'Timer ' 1 'Announce ' client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel] 0 'Midi Through Port-0' client 24: 'MODX' [type=kernel,card=2] 0 'MODX MIDI 1 ' 1 'MODX MIDI 2 ' 2 'MODX MIDI 3 ' pjd@raspberrypi:~ $ amidi -l Dir Device Name IO hw:2,0,0 MODX MIDI 1 IO hw:2,0,1 MODX MIDI 2 IO hw:2,0,2 MODX MIDI 3 pjd@raspberrypi:~ $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -d 90 48 3F 90 48 00 90 4A 3C 90 4A 00 90 47 30 90 47 00 90 43 3C 90 43 00 90 40 37 90 40 00 90 3C 22 90 3E 22 90 3E 00 90 3C 00^C 42 bytes read Now the weird part. I ran the dump command, amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -d, in one terminal window and sent Note ON/Note OFF messages from a separate independent terminal window: pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "90 47 3F" pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "80 47 0" pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "90 47 3F" pjd@raspberrypi:~/Notes $ amidi -p hw:2,0,0 -S "80 47 0" Note ON/Note OFF are successful while the dump command is running. Kill the dump command and Note ON/OFF stops working. This behavior is repeatable. Feel free to post this info to Yamaha Musicians Forum along with a "Hi!" and my regards. I just don't have time to interact on many forums... -- pj Music tech blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

Wish I had taken some spare talent to yesterday's gig. 🙃 Keep on rockin' -- pj

MODX Owner's Manual, page 55 -- Set “MIDI IN/OUT” to “USB.” Yeah, I know, it's almost insulting to mention it. But, I have been burned so many times when the MODX isn't listening on the intended physical port: 5-pin vs. USB. 🥵 Just by inspection, MIDI note number 16? That seems pretty low for testing purposes. If you send MIDI note 16 to a drum set, for example, you might not get an audible response. Maybe try around middle C (MIDI note number 48 or 60)? As mentioned in my previous post, the first port communicates with the MODX tone generator. I recommend double-checking the settings on the Utility MIDI I/O and Advanced tabs. I agree, if your Linux box can talk to the Nord, it should talk to the MODX. Good luck and good fortune -- pj

MODX Owner's Manual, page 56:

I've given up on GC anywhere in the Seattle area. Had a run-in with a tin guitar god clerk and decided that's it. Why look at empty space and be insulted at the same time? If you're in the Seattle area, I suggest Patchwerks: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/synthesizer-heaven/ I could live there (if they'd let me) and have food brought in -- pj 🙂

Hi Elmer -- Spot on. "Definite", I would say. Looking at their design decisions over product generations, Yamaha's engineers are very deliberate because the hardware and manufacturing are recurring costs. Software engineering is almost all non-recurring, but Yamaha has to cover that non-recurring cost, too. I don't think the coders get away with murder, either. None of the synth/stage platforms sell in huge numbers and they must watch cost carefully to maintain any kind of profit margin. Another sensitive area is choice of display -- lots of design implications there. Someday I'll dive that topic. Totally agree about frequency real estate. We have our drummer about 50% of the time. (Seems like everybody in our group has health issues...) I add a lot of woodwinds over the (acoustic) piano. Add the drummer and kiss subtlety and nuance goodbye! 😀 Add the occasional live trumpet and... On traditional hymns, I go to pipe organ -- I win!!! 😄 All the best -- pj

These are all good comments. As to silicon specifically, when Yamaha designs a processor (SWX or SWP), it is general enough to be used in ALL product lines, i.e., there aren't variants for organ, stage piano, piano or synth. They also plan for at least a 10 year design life -- for those people expecting brand new silicon in every new product, forget it. 🙃 That said, Yamaha carefully select and configure the processor(s) to be used in a specific product in order to implement the feature set at a particular price point. They are really damned good at this. Functional variation between products is established at the host control level (e.g., ARM) and the specific firmware load into the SWX or SWP DSP units. I stopped chasing service manuals for the piano product lines. In the SWP50 era, mid- to high-end products typically required two SWP50 tone generation ICs to achieve target polyphony. VRM equipped instruments, however, required a third SWP50 specifically for effects, e.g., VRM. (Basically, the AWM pipe in the third SWP50 is superfluous.) That's a lot of effort and cost to add VRM -- which must be computationally demanding. This is why VRM doesn't make it into mid- and low-end products. I have no life -- pj 😀

Hammond gets it. If you make an organ keyboard, you put organs in it, including pipe organ. Yamaha adds EDM voices in their latest update. Yamaha still doesn't get it. I need more coffee -- pj P.S. I love the covers-off keys in the Smother's Brothers video. never noticed that before... Stronger than dirt. 😀

Lest anyone forget, Yamaha added AN and VL to AWM ------------ twenty-five years ago. Yamaha EX5 and EX7. 🙂 Too much time chasing unicorns.... 🙃 -- pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/awm-an-and-vl-in-one-yamaha-synth/

I hope they have some flash ROM left after adding the new pianos. 😀 Yamaha need to add the bread and butter orchestra instruments and pipe organs -- now in the CK -- before I pull out the credit card. Enjoy the new update, tho'! -- pj P.S. Forgot to say... Leaving those instruments out left the YC sadly lacking WRT Nord and its library.

I'll let you guys argue about 88-key instruments. 😀 A weight chart for a few Yamaha boards: Montage6 33 pounds (FSX) Genos 28.7 pounds (FSX) MODX6 14.5 pounds (semi-weighted keyboard) CK61 12.4 pounds (FSB) YC61 15.6 pounds (semi-weighted waterfall) CP73 28.9 pounds (BHS) My point being, it would be tough to get the weight down to CK61 range AND include an FSX keybed. Genos has a plastic chassis and a lap-top style internal power supply. I'm not hung up on metal vs. plastic. Whenever anybody whacked either MODX or MOX with their acoustic guitar, it was the acoustic that bore the dent. 🙂 All the best -- pj

Had an early MacBook Air (MC965LL/A 2011) which had thermal issues when performing media-intensive operations -- even under the best conditions. Eventually, I had to do system updates in a Massachusetts-cold garage in order to avoid shut-downs. I tried using it at my church gig and had to reboot in the middle of a service. Total deal killer. I'm having better success with iPad Air 3rd Gen. Less visually intrusive, too. Took major grief about having a computer in the sacristy. All the best -- pj

I always believed that the dates on Yamaha MIDI implementation charts are near the "freeze date" for the software. Yamaha's annual report (you do read those, right? 🙂 ) freely owns up to Pandemic-induced supply chain problems and delays. They also anticipate a bump to the bottom-line as the backlog of new products are released. The PSR-E473 and CKs were delayed and perhaps the Montage unicorn. Yamaha were (are) heavily dependent on Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM) ADCs and DACs. The AKM factory was down for well-over a year due to a fire. Fire, water, smoke are simply catastrophic for a semiconductor plant. 😒 -- pj

This observation and discussion pops up on YamahaSynth.com, too. Phil (Bad Mister) swears that the keybed designs are the same -- if it says GHS, then it's GHS. I try to keep an open mind because players aren't fools. 🙂 The only objective thing I can say is the FSX synth action (Montage, Genos) is definitely better built and more playable (IMHO) than anything in the mid-range (PSR SX or MODX). Pretty much everything else is try-before-buy, Caveat emptor, yada-yada -- pj

If memory serves me right, the MX has a relatively small subset of the Motif XS/MOX arpeggios. The MX does not have Megavoices and any of the arpeggio patterns which rely on Megavoices. The MX waveform ROM is significantly smaller and dropping Megavoice was a way to save ROM space. Probably not a big difference to people who just want to bang away on the danged thing. 😀 I carefully weighed MX vs. MOX at the time, and chose MOX. The extra features and on-board sound editing swung me to MOX. I still have it and it sits in its retirement home having earned its rest. 😘 All the best -- pj