pjd

CP. I'm looking for a digital piano something for practice and need the feel to translate to an acoustic Petrof grand at my church gig. The CK88 and its GHS keybed just doesn't step up. I have respect for the CK88, but it doesn't fit my need. CP88 demo units are hard to find in my immediate area. There is a CP88 40 miles and one+ hour away through I-5 traffic. Yikes! 🙂 -- pj

I had the same luck Saturday, but did have a useful chat with the store manager -- a decent guy. We've all had our ups and downs at GC... 😐 He checked inventory and saw that a P-225 was delivered Friday. Might set it up this week. Stacks of P-45 and P-125 on the floor. Blow-outs ahead? CP88 sell like hot cakes according to the manager. One comes in, one sells out immediately. Explains why I still have not laid hands on one. I did play through my Sunday gig music on a GHS DGX-670. Should offer a basis for comparison against GHC. -- pj Music tech blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

Kind of liked these videos about the Yamaha P-225. Dude is like Ujiie's laid-back grandfather. 🙂 🤩

Turns out, they did intend that! Kalpajazz got that right. Yammy caught a few of us with that one. Quoting Kevin's post on YamahaSynth.com: [quote] Edited: I played with the performance a bit and found the noise is there with the Superknob turned all the way to the left but goes away as the knob is turned to the right (clockwise). Going further into effects I found the noise is coming from the "digital turntable, old record" effect in the "B" slot. the noise goes away when that's disabled. I guess that's the way it was designed but I have to ask "why?": sounds like a defect rather than "effect" in this case. [/quote] It's still kinda weird because the vinyl noise effect lingers into the next selected Performance. Go figure. Thought it was my hearing aid... 😁 -- pj

Just downloaded the free "Character Piano" library and installed it on MODX. (Yeah, technically not Montage). I really like the felt piano. However, the "Felt Mono-SP Piano" Performance starts making snap, crackle and pop sounds as soon as it is selected. This Performance behavior seems busted and not intentional. Don't even need to hit a key to get sampled Rice Krispies. 🤔 Anyone else hearing this issue on MODX? Maybe I got a lemon... Looking a gift horse in the mouth -- pj

Thanks for mentioning the new EP expansion. Sounds decent, especially given the price. The other pack sounds like a fluorescent light on the fritz... 🙂 -- pj

Count me in! I've been shopping for a DP. Put all those good pianos in one place, sprinkle VRM on them, and I'm a fish on the hook. 😀 Just occurred to me a few minutes ago -- Yamaha are updating virtually every DMI product line this calendar year. Stunning. Patience is a virtue. All the best -- pj P.S. Posted a new blog with a few MONTAGE thoughts: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-thank-you-for-playing/

Don't know if anybody mentioned it here -- the Korg UK site advertises £429 (about $560 USD) for the upgrade. At least Korg is providing a software/hardware upgrade. I've crawled through a lot of service manuals for up-market keyboards. The upgrade approach seems so do-able in many instances. If Roadkill Garage can drop a big block engine into a Pinto, why not swap out a digital motherboard? 🙂 I'm watching this carefully and hope it is successful for Korg and customers. -- pj P.S. Yeah, not so feasible if an upgrade needs new front panel gizmos...

Yamaha have announced even more digital pianos in the last week or so: the P-143/145, P-223/225 and the 2nd gen CSP-200 series digital pianos. These announcements follow the new Piaggeros, CLPs, ... The new CSPs have exactly one front panel button and rely on the Smart Pianist app to unlock all the internal goodies. The voices and styles are up to the PSR-SX700/SX900 level. Amazing! So, what about all the missing panel buttons like Style Control? It struck me that Yamaha are evolving to "adaptive instruments" as far as digital pianos are concerned. The CSPs and other specific models have AI Full Keyboard chord recognition and now the CSPs are adding adaptive styles that react to player dynamics and number of notes (busyness). The instrument follows the player without extra button pressing. Cool. Anyway, I have yet another post with comments and links: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-csp-gen-2-digital-pianos/ http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-145-and-p-225-digital-pianos/ I can't keep up with these guys! Been out of town. Missed the Ludlow VT flood by one day... Take care -- pj

I don't usually shill for anybody, but Audio Modeling are running two promotions during July 2023: https://audiomodeling.com/ The offer that caught my eye is 33% off on IOS products. I like the SWAM instruments... -- pj

Wish I had more knowledge about Bluetooth (BLE/MIDI) in order to give a systematic answer. 🤓 From random experience... I connect and use a Korg Microkey Air and Boss/Roland EV-1-WL wireless MIDI expression pedal. I use the EV-1-WL for either expression (CC#11) and volume (CC#7). Some Bluetooth MIDI devices only want to connect through an app. They don't (won't) appear in the list displayed by the Bluetooth Settings. So, we have to turn to specific apps. Korg Module seems to work correctly with both connected directly through Module's settings menu. Module ought to handle two keyboards OK, both sending to Module. IK Multimedia B-3X seems to handle only one Bluetooth MIDI device at a time. So, when connecting through B-3X alone, it's either/or. Without keys, of course, it's ludicrous to have only a volume pedal. 🙂 Camelot IOS seems to do things right. It can connect to and communicate with multiple Bluetooth MIDI devices. Camelot also has a sensible way of replacing a non-connected MIDI device. I use this feature a lot since I'm always switching around keyboards. So, ultimately, I'm running everything through Camelot. Camelot instantiates Module, B-3X, iSymphonic Orchestra, etc. when I need it and does the MIDI routing switcheroo. I send the EV-1-L MIDI stream to Camelot's master volume level (which fits my own usage scenario). The EV-1-L could be sent to a software instrument instead. Dunno if this helps. Wish I knew more -- pj

Jerry has this exactly right. Manufacturers reuse printed circuit boards and components like crazy. None of these products sell in cellphone-like volumes, so cost reduction through reuse is critical. If volume and revenues were bigger, then design of a new layout, etc. would be spread over more units. Comparing the two boxes, it's clear that Korg dropped the original panel board into a larger chassis with a longer keybed. Done. Saw a recent video with Dan Phillips (Korg) who ruefully admitted that RaspberryPi 3 shortages prevented production and release of RPi-based products like the Wavestate. Shortages have no doubt hit the other manufacturers, too. Good to see new products coming out. All the best -- pj Music tech blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

Athan Bilias (Yamaha) once posted the following information on the Piano World Forum (9/12/2013): Spectral Component Modeling Frankly we can understand how people are confused by the Spectral Component Modeling system because it is not one individual technology, but a system. It's easiest to understand by breaking down the words. Full Spectral Component Modeling (all three words) is used ONLY on the tine and reed models. Full Spectral Modeling means that those EP sounds DO NOT have velocity layers and we challenge anyone to to find them because they simply don't exist. There are continuous spectral changes across the entire range of velocities which are not based on sample switching, but windowed spectral data. Component Modeling is used through out the CP 4 and 40 Stage series and as the words imply means that certain components of the sound are modeled. For example another part of the component modeling of the EPs is the ability to adjust the tine position. This technology is similar to the FDSP technology found in the EX5 years ago. So this is Component Modeling of the tine pickup position. The acoustic pianos and other sounds feature component modeling where aspects of the sound are modeled. Some of these component aspects (for example Note Off or Sound Board Resonance), Roland sometimes refers to as Behavior Modeling and are available in other Yamaha product that feature Advanced Articulation. Others are more DSP oriented and unique to SCM systems, for example there are mic preamp models so you can change the character of the piano by changing which mic preamp model is applied and what the actual EQ settings for the Mic Preamp are. Again this is modeling a component of the sound, but not necessarily modeling the whole sound itself. At this time we are not using full Spectral Component Modeling on the acoustic pianos or other sounds for technical reasons. Finally the Virtual Circuit Modeling is pure modeling in that it is mathematical models of resistors and capacitors that are then put together in virtual circuits that emulate vintage stomp box effects. These were developed by Toshi Kunimoto ( Dr. K) who developed the world' s first true physically modeled instrument the VL1 and the Tine position algorithms in FSDP. It's the combination of all these components that come together and make up the Spectral Component Modeling system. "Does the CP1/5/50 handle velocity layers differently to the CP300/33?..yes." Yes, the acoustic pianos have many, many more layers and the EPs use Spectral Component Modeling so there are no velocity splits at all, but continuously changing Spectral windows. "Are there underlying Multi-velocity samples ?.. yes " On the acoustic pianos, yes, on the EPs no.

Hi Fleer -- Thanks for posting that link. I meant to say something about the built-in speakers and added comments to the post. (See below). All the best -- pj I played and listened to the CK88 through its built-in speakers. The built-in speakers are a bit unusual for Yamaha stage/synth instruments, but not so for its digital pianos and arranger keyboards. The CK88 has sufficient volume for practice and maybe enough for an acoustic-level rehearsal. Thus, I put the CK's speakers in the "courtesy speaker" category. Being 2x6W, 12cm by 6cm ovals, they are not unlike the courtesy speakers on the Case CT-S1000V (or S500) -- just OK. They are not boxy, something I don't tolerate under any circumstance.

Thanks for posting that video -- nice deconstruction! I think someone could A/B a Reface YC against the video as the settings are explicitly visible. The comparisons against a real Leslie and YC61 are helpful. Hate to say it, but the CK rotary has a phase-y-ness that I don't hear in the for-real Leslie. Of course, YMMV due to the way things are recorded and so forth. I'm interested in other opinions as to authenticity. All the best -- pj

This is one of my hot button issues. Software/hardware engineers should be forced to eat their own dog food. If it's a keyboard, they should be forced to do two things: 1. Make the instrument communicate with a control-intensive virtual instrument like IK B-3X, controlling everything, not just a few easy controls like the drawbars. 2. Carry a full size, fully-weighted replica of the keyboard every day during development. In and out of the office, on the subway. Montage/Kronos would both weigh a lot less. This should be the law. They should be grateful that I'm not managing their product development... 🙃 All the best -- pj

I agree with your comments about innovation. That's valid. As to more efficient processing, not so sure. Apple and ARM lead in this area, but even they cannot avoid basic device physics. At some point, high speed circuits consume more power and generate more heat. The Kronos weighs like an M1A1 Abrams tank because of the current and power demands of the off-the-shelf motherboard -- and a so-called power efficient ATOM board at that. Yamaha's internal ARM and DSP processors (2 x SWP + SSP2 in Montage) operate without heavy heat sinks and draw modest amounts of current. And people still complain about the Montage being too heavy! It's hard to design high-performance, power efficient DSP. Memory bandwidth is another factor, maybe more important than compute for large multi-samples and high polyphony. Just some thoughts -- pj

Aside from FM-X and all the front panel gizmos and a new UI, there were a number of new waveforms/performances. I did a rough comparison versus XS and XF when I considered a Montage: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-new-waveforms/ Montage adopted the new tone generation silicon, SWP70. (Motif XF is SWP50.) Yamaha included all of the old waveforms because they could -- simple as that. Why abandon them if it gives some users backward compatibility? Lots of folks making music with old Yamaha gear. The limitations in my case are lack of talent, skill and practice -- not gear. 😀 -- pj

I've thought more about Yamaha's dependence on Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM) DACs and ADCs. The AKM factory fire was quite severe; virtually any sentence involving fire, smoke, water and semiconductor manufacturing involves catastrophe. I believe the original AKM DACs in the Montage are in short supply; I can't find any on the spot market. The Montage DACs and ADCs are on a separate printed circuit board -- part of the Pure Analog Circuit (PAC) approach. Yamaha need to work around this problem somehow, at the very least redesign the analog board. Whether this is enough to force a "Montage+" release or not remains to be seen. Such is the nature of opaque, secretive companies. 😀 As to the internal architecture, their "2016 technology" has enough legs for a 10+ year evolution. Given all the interest in "AN-X", I doubt if they will pass up an opportunity to monetize it. Just some thoughts -- pj

I'm using an iPad Air 3rd gen. Not enough screen for your needs, but I wanted to allay concerns about older models and CPU throughput. I run mainly Camelot, Korg Module, Crudebyte iOrchestra and IK B-3X. Reezekeys is the dude. I've had similar experiences WRT dongles and whatnot. His advice is generally right on. -- pj

I have and use a Microkey Air 49, roughly two years. I use it mainly with iPad (Korg Module, Camelot). I vaguely remember a few minor connection issues back then. It wasn't showing up in the Apple Bluetooth settings device list although I could still pair/connect via Module. Since those early days, it's been connecting rock solid, including Camelot. 49 is a good size for what I play -- two-handed contemporary church music (AKA "pop" 😀 ) I can adapt between the Korg mini-keys and MODX without two much trouble. Jumping up to acoustic piano, not so much. Korg really did put some thought into their mini-key design and they are reasonably playable/responsive. Battery life is good. Yep, it will run on external USB power, too. Unfortunately, USB power means USB communication, no BT! Weird choice on Korg's part. So, you cannot power via the USB port and communicate via BT. Make sure to have spare batteries. Only pitch bend, mod wheel and sustain. Wish it had expression instead of sustain. Mod wheel and sustain are the only tweakable CCs. I configure the mod wheel to CC11 expression in order to control volume remotely. Overall, I'm happy with it. Very portable -- pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wire-less-part-1-korg-microkey-air-49/

Yeah, Joan Crawford (this thread) has risen from the grave. 😀 Given all the talk about the drawbar sliders on the Yamaha CKs, I thought I'd given Roland Fantom-0 a listen. This video by Ed Diaz: focuses on the Tone Wheel Organ (TWO) specifically. I found the video to be informative. Since it's been a year, any new feedback on the TWO? I'd love to have a shoot-out between the wanna-be's and a clone or two or three. Pointer to other threads would be appreciated, too. (Yep, I did briefly scan through this thread...) Thanks -- pj

Pretty nice tone! Thank you for posting because this gives us a better idea of what real people can squeeze out of the CK. I would be interested to know the registrations and effect settings --- so I can steal 'em and try to use 'em on MODX. 😃 Thanks, again -- pj

The YDS caught my eye, too. No mention of MIDI support for the older YDS-150. No YDS-120 manuals yet. I'm not holding out much hope. (Bummer.) -- pj

True that! One (potential) problem with sampled drawbars is unwanted (unrealistic) audible phase differences. AnotherScott and I think Yamaha have made a breakthrough in that regard with YC61/73. No matter what, I've wrung a lot of value out of Reface YC, using it at choral rehearsals. Mini-keys, meh. For me, the main problem is the short 37-key keybed. I have to mentally wrap around either the bass line or the melody in real-time. I detest 37-key anything anymore. All the best -- pj