Keyboards with nice semi-weighted actions

[Outkaster]

How about just weighted keys?

[Stokely]

I'd like to hear what anyone thinks of the Arturia 88 Essential. Under $400 and it fits into the Output Platform desk which I'm eyeballing.

 

I would, too. I was wondering who made the action for this new model - thought it might be Fatar. Their reply was that they manufacture it themselves.

 

 

I looked into the various Arturia offerings, and I thought that uses a TP-100 by fatar...not one of my favorite actions. The more expensive model may be different. I saw a vid on the essential 49 key vs the Mark II and those were definitely different according to the person on the vid.

 

(btw, there was a recent deal for Arturia Collection 6 for free if you buy the more expensive synth controller, so you'd get the controller and the software for 450 or so...that's a great deal if you need both of those.)

 

I guess though if they are saying it isn't Fatar, then so be it. I may be thinking of the older Arturia 88 (not "essential").

[drawback]

I'd like to hear what anyone thinks of the Arturia 88 Essential. Under $400 and it fits into the Output Platform desk which I'm eyeballing.

 

I would, too. I was wondering who made the action for this new model - thought it might be Fatar. Their reply was that they manufacture it themselves.

 

 

I looked into the various Arturia offerings, and I thought that uses a TP-100 by fatar...not one of my favorite actions. The more expensive model may be different. I saw a vid on the essential 49 key vs the Mark II and those were definitely different according to the person on the vid.

 

(btw, there was a recent deal for Arturia Collection 6 for free if you buy the more expensive synth controller, so you'd get the controller and the software for 450 or so...that's a great deal if you need both of those.)

 

I guess though if they are saying it isn't Fatar, then so be it. I may be thinking of the older Arturia 88 (not "essential").

 

Arturia has two lines of controllers. The Essential 88 is the new entry-level 88 with semi-weighted keys. The higher-end Keylab MkII 88 uses Fatar TP-100

[RandyFF]

Was wondering about what box style piano keys were vs waterfall and diving board keys. This link shows pictures of these three types, just scroll down a little bit.

Different kinds of keyboard keys

[stoken6]

I liked the Alesis QS7.1 in the 76 non-hammer category, but it has waterfall ("keyboard style keys") rather than "piano shaped".

I don't think the QS7.1 has waterfall keys.

My mistake, I meant to type "diving board" rather than waterfall.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

I suppose I could consider an 88 key board, such as Korg B2n. Sure, it doesn't have an internal power supply, but it looks decent and is not expensive. Has anyone played that board. I presume it has the same action as the Kronos LS.

That's an interesting question... Has anyone here played both? Do the B2N and Kronos LS feel like they have the same action? I know they have announced an even cheaper L1 model that will use the Kronos LS action, but I'm curious as to whether that is or is not the same as what's in the B2N. The L1 at 13 lbs will be substantially lighter than the B2N (which is around 20), which tends to make me think the action is likely to be different, but who knows... maybe the difference is more in the chassis. Is the B2N metal or plastic?

[AnotherScott]

looking for a 76 key semi-weighted action, something like that found on Kurz PC3/SP76/Artis7 etc. I think it is the Fatar TP8piano, but I could be wrong! So basically, piano shaped keys, rather than keyboard style keys with a decent bit of resistance but not the full hammer action.

Not 76, but I think that's the action in the Dexibell S1.

 

But the reason I revisited this thread is that there was so much appreciation for the Medelli in the SP4-7... for anyone who liked that one, I think you'll be more than happy with the Medelli in the Kurzweil PC4-7 (and presumably the SP6-7).

[The Piano Man]

looking for a 76 key semi-weighted action, something like that found on Kurz PC3/SP76/Artis7 etc. I think it is the Fatar TP8piano, but I could be wrong! So basically, piano shaped keys, rather than keyboard style keys with a decent bit of resistance but not the full hammer action.

Not 76, but I think that's the action in the Dexibell S1.

 

But the reason I revisited this thread is that there was so much appreciation for the Medelli in the SP4-7... for anyone who liked that one, I think you'll be more than happy with the Medelli in the Kurzweil PC4-7 (and presumably the SP6-7).

 

I used to own a Kurzweil SP4-7 and wasn"t a huge fan. However, I think it was less the action that was the issue. I find the amp envelope release too abrupt on the triple strike piano. I own a PC3x and have managed to edit it to my taste.

 

In terms of semi weighted boards, I do like the action on the old Roland EP7. It is a Matsushita (Technics) I think. Obviously, the sound set of the EP7 needs to be updated! So, I just use it as a midi controller to Ravenscroft iOS.

 

I presume you are happy with the keyboard on the Vox Continental Scott? Will be interesting to see how the forthcoming budget Korg L1 compares...

[AnotherScott]

I presume you are happy with the keyboard on the Vox Continental Scott? Will be interesting to see how the forthcoming budget Korg L1 compares...

Yes, the Vox has one of my favorite semi-weighted actions... but the PC4-7 is right up there. Not as good as the Vox in terms of playing well all the way to the back of the keys, but managing to generally feel more like a piano (without impeding its suitability for organ playing). I really couldn't tell you definitively that I like either one better than the other. Though they feel different from each other, I find them both quite enjoyable to play.

 

I am curious about the L1. I know it's going to use the action of the Kronos LS, but I've never played that one either. (And as I mentioned above, I don't know whether or not it's the same as the B2N, which I also have not played.) I've similarly wondered whether the Kronos LS/L1 action may be essentially the same as the Vox action, except with piano shaped keys instead of waterfall. A 13 lb 88-key board that feels as good as that would be very appealing. (Cheap, too.) With an iPad/iPhone, you could have a good sounding, good feeling setup that could get you out at the end of a night almost as fast as the sax player. I've thought about possibly picking up an L1, not for the weight per se (the Vox or PC4-7 are light enough), but because it also has speakers. Though it remains to be seen whether they're loud/full enough to handle even something like a solo wedding ceremony.

[Meta]

Alesis QS7.1 and Kurzweil PC361 are decent. Looking forward to trying the PC4-7.

[TomKittel]

The Roland Juno Stage has not yet been mentioned in this thread. Decent semi weighted 76 keys wonderfully suitable for piano playing as well as synth and organ. Best semi weighted non-hammer action I have played in a lightweight 20 pounds keyboard so far. I believe the Jupiter 50 features the same keybed. This keybed should not to be confused with the crappy keybeds in the VR09 and Juno DS and such. On top the Juno Stage features a dedicated midi controller mode for external sounds. It automatically switches Local off/on with a touch of a button. It's very well suited as a master keyboard plus it features a ton of JV5080 sounds and some APs and EPs derived from SRX expansions as a bonus. The latter can be played in a specific piano mode. I am really excited about this keyboard that I came across very cheap by accident.

[drawback]

the drawback of the Rolands

 

Well, I"ve been called a lot of things, but... :wink:

 

Not to take this too far into a weighted hammer track, but since you mentioned it - I have recently been converted from Yamaha and Fatar which are too sluggish for my liking, to a Korg GrandStage (RH3). I can"t believe how much I like it.

 

Best semi weighted AFAIC was the Medelli on my old SP4 except for the sharp edges.

 

Update â I acquired a Kronos 61 a few months ago and just love the action. It"s probably the best semi-weighted diving board I"ve ever laid my hands on. Korg certainly has it nailed, at least in the higher end.

[AnotherScott]

Is there a clear winner for best feeling and responding semi weighted action being sold today? Or just many opinions?

 

Always a variety opinions. Of course, my opinion is the right one. ;-)

[drawback]

Best is a matter of opinion. IMO, lol.

[David Emm]

Is there any practical way to answer this, aside from spending an afternoon playing everything at Sweetwater, where they generally DO have everything?

 

I love the debate, but its 90% subjective, so actual argument would be 100% twaddle.

 

If a key pops off while you play, that's bad. If it speaks to you, that's Heav'n. Everything else is on a sliding scale.

[Meta]

Report on the PC4-7:

 

Action is OK, slightly more spring pushback than the PC361 or Alesis QS7.1, which I still prefer, but I'm adjusting to it.

 

IIRC it's slightly less pushback than PC3A-7, which seemed like too much, although it's been a while since I played that one, didn't keep it.

 

Biggest PC4-7 complaint: Front/top corners of keys are noticeably sharper than my other keyboards. How did that get past design review? I have to be somewhat careful to avoid feeling those corners. If I could swap out the physical keys and at the same time change the keyboard range from to low A to high C (instead of the E-G range that wastes keys when playing piano and B3) then this would be pretty darn close to my dream keyboard.

 

Feature-wise it's a good step up from my PC361 as it weighs less, has more key range, more FX slots, can import samples, has audio inputs, includes more sample sets, has 9 additional programmable knobs, etc.

 

It pulled in my custom PC3 patches mostly intact. Have to troubleshoot some missing bits, like not recognizing my foot switch settings for octave transposing and momentary leslie speed.

 

BTW, Kurzweil folks, why isn't momentary leslie speed footswitching a direct choice in the interface rather than a workaround? At least there's a workaround. But it shouldn't need a workaround.

 

Still need to upgrade to the latest PC4 OS version and then I'll troubleshoot those foot switch issues.

 

Width could be narrower if end caps were redesigned, but it does fit into a keyboard bag that I happened to have, which I believe is for a PC3-7.

BTW, I'm in the camp that appreciates the mod and pitch wheels being above the keyboard. Kudos for that, it does help keep the width down.

 

It will be a good single keyboard for one-keyboard situations; a good companion to the PC361 or my Prophet for two-keyboard situations; and perhaps a good partner with an added light-weight controller keyboard via the additional USB connection and the PC4's multi-timbral abilities.

 

Bottom line:

-A few complaints, nothing's perfect;

-a deep appreciation for the improvements and sheer programmability of this beast;

-I considered a number of non-hammer-action keyboards for the uses I have, and so far I think the PC4-7 was worth the wait.

[AnotherScott]

BTW, Kurzweil folks, why isn't momentary leslie speed footswitching a direct choice in the interface

Since the real thing has no momentary function, it may not be a very common need/request.

[Meta]

Or it might be a common need, actually. I know I'm not the only one who uses momentary triggering of leslie speed (on keyboards that support it).

 

I'm also not the only one who sometimes holds a B3 chord with a sustain pedal, also not on the "real thing". But handy to have sometimes.

 

My point is: it would be easy to add in the interface. For those who don't want momentary leslie control, ignore it. For me, it's a critical control for the way I play.

 

If you haven't used momentary footswitching for leslie control, you might want to try it. It's very expressive to bring it in and out quickly, to build and accent areas of increased excitement with more precision.

 

BTW, Scott, does your PC4 have sharp key edges?

[Mike Warren]

I'm also not the only one who sometimes holds a B3 chord with a sustain pedal, also not on the "real thing". But handy to have sometimes.

 

The proper way to hold notes on a B3 is to jam knives in the side of the keys.

 

Just ask Keith Emerson.

[Doerfler]

Hey Mike, I will, but I'm not ready for that yet

[AnotherScott]

If you haven't used momentary footswitching for leslie control, you might want to try it. It's very expressive to bring it in and out quickly, to build and accent areas of increased excitement with more precision.

Having played using toggle-on/toggle-off footswitches for Leslies and Leslie effects since ths 70s, my behavior is ingrained! But I don't see where having to hold it vs. click-on-click-off changes the expressivity options.

 

BTW, Scott, does your PC4 have sharp key edges?

They're not the very smoothest, but they are not the sharpest either. I'm fine with them. Actually, they may be about perfect for a dual-use board. Not SO rounded as to overly encourage sloppy adjacent-key-strikes when playing piano, but still "soft" enough that they don't induce pain or bleeding when you WANT things like organ smearing.

[niacin]

If you haven't used momentary footswitching for leslie control, you might want to try it. It's very expressive to bring it in and out quickly, to build and accent areas of increased excitement with more precision.

Having played using toggle-on/toggle-off footswitches for Leslies and Leslie effects since ths 70s, my behavior is ingrained! But I don't see where having to hold it vs. click-on-click-off changes the expressivity options.

 

I always have it on toggle. You kick it up but pull out just before it settles into tremolo. I love that effect and find it adds to the expressive possibilities. I find it a lot more comfortable than kicking the pedal twice, for those of us who spend most of our time on chorale. And as noted it's an easily implemented function, other manufacturers do it e.g. Hammond, so why not just do it instead of claiming that it's not commonly used or not a real issue or whatever?

[AnotherScott]

it's an easily implemented function...so why not just do it instead of claiming that it's not commonly used or not a real issue or whatever?

Has Kurzweil actually claimed any kind of explanation in response to this request?

 

I'm also always hesitant to say that anything would be easily implemented. Something easily implemented on one board can be difficult to implement in another... there can be constraints imposed by other existing code. I'm not saying it couldn't be easily implemented, only that it's hard for anyone "on the outside" to know for sure.

[niacin]

it's an easily implemented function...so why not just do it instead of claiming that it's not commonly used or not a real issue or whatever?

Has Kurzweil actually claimed any kind of explanation in response to this request?

 

I'm also always hesitant to say that anything would be easily implemented. Something easily implemented on one board can be difficult to implement in another... there can be constraints imposed by other existing code. I'm not saying it couldn't be easily implemented, only that it's hard for anyone "on the outside" to know for sure.

 

I don't know that Kurzweil has claimed anything. I was responding to the comment you made about not seeing how it contributed to the expressive possibilities of the instrument, which I find it does.

 

Given the mechanics of a switch pedal I'm prepared to speculate that the code wouldn't be a problem to write.

 

I'm not sure why you're dismissive of the idea as a useful one or pessimistic about the possibility of implementing it, but yes the answer for the OP would be to ask Kurzweil.

[Meta]

Kurzweil constantly improves their keyboards. Adding a simple selection for momentary leslie control rather than the workaround below would be a nice improvement.

 

In the mean time, here are the workaround programming steps Kurzweil suggested to add momentary footswitch control for leslie slow/fast switching on the PC3, back when I first asked about it (thanks Jean!)

 

KURZWEIL Operational Tech Support

Here are the steps:

1) edit the KB3 Program

2) on the MISC page set the LesliePedal to None.

3) go to the PROGFX page and press EDIT

4) select a free MOD on any of the 3 MOD pages (MOD 1, 2 or 3)

5) assign a free MOD as follows:

Box# Speed Slow Sustain 1

-where Box# = the KB3b FX box position (usually Box 2 or 3).

Note: in some FX Chains "Speed" is already assigned as a MOD - in those cases replace its settings with those above.

6) Exit and save.

 

It works on my PC361. However it appears that the interface has changed on the PC4-7 (no Misc menu), so I'm waiting for updated instructions from Kurzweil.

[synthizen2]

My all time favorite semi-weighted, "compromise" action is that of the Roland VK7, with the metal weights under each key.

 

Just a heads-up on Roland keyboards with the metal weights under each key. The red glue that holds them in place tends to degrade over time, some of the weights slowly come off, and drips the red glue down onto the contact strip beneath the keybed. This happened to my JD-800 (when I had one). I had to disassemble the keybed unit, remove all of the (remaining) metal weights, remove the excess glue, and replace the contact strip.... before I sold it.

 

When I played the JD-800 without the metal weights (before selling it off), I noticed that these weights made very little difference in the feel of the keybed. It was a terrible design idea.