Two keyboards to one volume pedal

[MrVegas]

My current rig at church gigs is this:

 

(a) Kronos left and right output to left and right input of Motion Sound KBR-3D.

(b) CX-3 mono output to mono input on rotary channel of Motion Sound KBR-3D

 

On any given Sunday, I alternate between the two keyboards during our sets and sometimes within songs (I never play both boards simultaneously).

 

I am looking for one heavy duty pedal to control the volume of both keyboards. I'm guessing it would have to have three or four inputs to accept the line outs from both boards.

 

Suggestions?

[cassdad]

I'd accomplish that via MIDI.

[Baldwin Funster]

Stereo volume pedal at the final stereo send to the pa. If you dont already, submix your boards to a 2 track feed and put the stereo vol pedal there and send the pedals stereo output to the FOH pa mixer.

 

Or MIDI as previously stated.

[MathOfInsects]

^^^^^

 

Right, the only way I can see this working with a single pedal would be post-Motion Sound, pre-FOH. In that case you'd need a stereo volume pedal with balanced ins/outs. No idea if that's an easy task or not.

[Lou_NC]

I'd use a simple line-level mixer to combine signals from the keyboards, then route through a stereo volume pedal.

 

Here's a simple mixer option for you: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/rolls-mx28-mini-mix-vi/632003000000000?cntry=US&cur=USD&source=3WWRWXGS&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1KiBBhCcARIsAPWqoSrScgd8w_DLI-ROwZzx_BYYHEb8EzHjItO6y1wMmwyG-g3vksGX5moaAiRKEALw_wcB

 

For stereo pedals, I still occasionally use my vintage Morley SVO pedal or my Yamaha FC9.

 

Lou

[KuruPrionz]

Maybe not with a pedal. A 4 channel stereo mixer could do that, just turn the balance control from hard left to hard right.

On songs where you use both boards, put it in the middle and they'll both work.

 

If each board needs to be stereo in the house, you've escalated the solution to something more complex and esoteric. Add in the single pedal requirement and it's probably a custom job.

2 expression pedals set for volume would probably be the simplest and involve the fewest connections.

[MathOfInsects]

I'd use a simple line-level mixer to combine signals from the keyboards, then route through a stereo volume pedal.

 

Here's a simple mixer option for you: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/rolls-mx28-mini-mix-vi/632003000000000?cntry=US&cur=USD&source=3WWRWXGS&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1KiBBhCcARIsAPWqoSrScgd8w_DLI-ROwZzx_BYYHEb8EzHjItO6y1wMmwyG-g3vksGX5moaAiRKEALw_wcB

 

For stereo pedals, I still occasionally use my vintage Morley SVO pedal or my Yamaha FC9.

 

Lou

But he's sending different signals to different inputs on the amp--mono from one board to one signal path, stereo from the other to another.

[MathOfInsects]

2 expression pedals set for volume would probably be the simplest and involve the fewest connections.

 

And you could always velcro a small board to the top and use them as a single pedal.

[cp-the-nerd]

I'd use a simple line-level mixer to combine signals from the keyboards, then route through a stereo volume pedal.

 

Here's a simple mixer option for you: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/rolls-mx28-mini-mix-vi/632003000000000?cntry=US&cur=USD&source=3WWRWXGS&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1KiBBhCcARIsAPWqoSrScgd8w_DLI-ROwZzx_BYYHEb8EzHjItO6y1wMmwyG-g3vksGX5moaAiRKEALw_wcB

 

For stereo pedals, I still occasionally use my vintage Morley SVO pedal or my Yamaha FC9.

 

Lou

But he's sending different signals to different inputs on the amp--mono from one board to one signal path, stereo from the other to another.

 

I'm not really seeing how something that is a problem for a mixer isn't also a problem for a single volume pedal.

[MathOfInsects]

I'm not really seeing how something that is a problem for a mixer isn't also a problem for a single volume pedal.

 

We're agreeing.

[stillearning]

2 expression pedals set for volume would probably be the simplest and involve the fewest connections.

 

And you could always velcro a small board to the top and use them as a single pedal.

I"ve done this. Two pedals, close together using right angle plugs. I didn"t even need to 'physically" connect them, if they"re close enough. Just straddle them with one foot. I think I used Behringer FCV100 stereo pedals.

[RABid]

.... Two pedals, close together using right angle plugs. I didn"t even need to 'physically" connect them, if they"re close enough. Just straddle them with one foot. ...

 

This is what I was going to suggest. Look for a pedal brand with connections on the end rather than the side.

[MrVegas]

I like the simple line-level mixer idea from Lou_NC. Is there a problem with that? I'm not technically savvy enough to understand some of the back and forth here, but I do appreciate it.

[DaveMcM]

Why can't you use the expression pedal inputs on each instrument. Then find one of These? The XVP-10 has two independent expression pedal outputs (TRS). I think Korg discontinued this model but if you could find one, it works great. The new version, XVP-20 only has a single expression pedal output. But still has the dual stereo ins/outs of the original XVP-10.

[stillearning]

I like the simple line-level mixer idea from Lou_NC. Is there a problem with that? I'm not technically savvy enough to understand some of the back and forth here, but I do appreciate it.

I think the problem with using a mixer, then going into a stereo volume pedal, is it doesn"t allow you to use the separate inputs on the Motion Sound for stereo from the Kronos, and mono from the CX-3.

 

Unless you use the stereo volume pedal as dual mono, and summed the Kronos to mono to use one half of the pedal.

[ajstan]

Why can't you use the expression pedal inputs on each instrument. Then find one of These? The XVP-10 has two independent expression pedal outputs (TRS). I think Korg discontinued this model but if you could find one, it works great. The new version, XVP-20 only has a single expression pedal output. But still has the dual stereo ins/outs of the original XVP-10.

Timely question for me. I'm looking at cutting back the number of pedals in my rig and found this yesterday:

https://www.boss.info/us/products/ev-30/

[DaveMcM]

Why can't you use the expression pedal inputs on each instrument. Then find one of These? The XVP-10 has two independent expression pedal outputs (TRS). I think Korg discontinued this model but if you could find one, it works great. The new version, XVP-20 only has a single expression pedal output. But still has the dual stereo ins/outs of the original XVP-10.

Timely question for me. I'm looking at cutting back the number of pedals in my rig and found this yesterday:

https://www.boss.info/us/products/ev-30/

 

 

Didn't know about that one. Thanks for the info.

[FatFingers]

The EP-25K among others from Mission Engineering also has dual outputs, and dual independent polarity switches that might be necessary for some setups.

 

EP-25K

[DaveMcM]

The EP-25K among others from Mission Engineering also has dual outputs, and dual polarity switches that might be necessary for some setups.

 

EP-25K

 

One serious problem with a lot of pedals are input/output jacks mounted on the sides. The Mission Engineering pedals look like they are sturdily built, but the side jacks means a no-go.

[NewImprov]

Not the cheapest solution, but this should work: Mission Engineering Expressionator. It basically allows you to send one expression pedal to 3 devices, with scaling and inversion available on all outputs. I have one on my effects pedalboard, and it works fantastically.

[tunaman]

Why can't you use the expression pedal inputs on each instrument. Then find one of These? The XVP-10 has two independent expression pedal outputs (TRS). I think Korg discontinued this model but if you could find one, it works great. The new version, XVP-20 only has a single expression pedal output. But still has the dual stereo ins/outs of the original XVP-10.

 

Yessir - I have one and it"s a beast of a pedal. I used to use it in that fashion to run my Korg TeX and Kurz SP76 for my previous band.

[MathOfInsects]

That seems like a completely viable solution. Nice call.

[Legatoboy]

buy a used Key Largo and run the whole mixer with 1 Vol. pedal and two stereo control cables into and analog stereo pedal....Just trim with the patch vol. or instrument main Vol. knobs...

I did that in a short lived 80's project .. worked out well... really the way to go for more than input 2 sources ... but you only have 2 so a pedal may do it depending on how you run signal

[EricBarker]

This is SLIGHTLY off topic, but for anyone like me who has one board through a laptop, I find it insanely helpful to learn some sort of rudimentary MIDI programming environment. I use Max/MSP which is pretty advanced, but there are a lot simpler options out there, some built into VI Host programs. Then I hook all of my keyboards into the computer via MIDI and can make adjustments to them, even if they are "hardware" boards. For instance, I share pedals between my MainStage controller and my Crumar Mojo. The pedals are all hooked up to my Keylab controller, but sustain/rotary, and swell are echoed back out to the Mojo61. With some basic programming I can even get a little more advanced, like only sending out sustain signals to Piano patches, and sending out Rotary Fast/Slow to B3 models. It takes a little setup, but it makes performance and setup a breeze.

 

I do a lot of minor things this way, and it really allows me to customize my rig to perform exactly the way I want it to.

[Dave Weiser]

This is a good puzzle! I just re-read your post and saw that you said you never play both instruments at once...

 

In that case this is a no brainer - this kind of scenario is why God gave MIDI to mankind, along with fire and beer.

 

Get an expression pedal and connect it to the Kronos, then connect Kronos MIDI out to CX MIDI in, and that should pretty much do the trick.

Simple and elegant, with the least amount of moving parts.

 

You'll just need to make sure that whatever you're playing on the Kronos is set to LOCAL, so you're not transmitting notes to the CX. Plenty of ways to deal with this depending on how flexible the Kronos MIDI implementation is. (I assume it must be comprehensive and pretty rockin'.)

 

In a pinch, you could even just turn down the CX volume knob when it's not being played!

 

Any variation on this approach is going to be easier to implement and MUCH easier to troubleshoot if something goes wrong, than going with the audio volume pedal approach.

[MrVegas]

This is a good puzzle! I just re-read your post and saw that you said you never play both instruments at once...

 

In that case this is a no brainer - this kind of scenario is why God gave MIDI to mankind, along with fire and beer.

 

Get an expression pedal and connect it to the Kronos, then connect Kronos MIDI out to CX MIDI in, and that should pretty much do the trick.

Simple and elegant, with the least amount of moving parts.

 

You'll just need to make sure that whatever you're playing on the Kronos is set to LOCAL, so you're not transmitting notes to the CX. Plenty of ways to deal with this depending on how flexible the Kronos MIDI implementation is. (I assume it must be comprehensive and pretty rockin'.)

 

In a pinch, you could even just turn down the CX volume knob when it's not being played!

 

Any variation on this approach is going to be easier to implement and MUCH easier to troubleshoot if something goes wrong, than going with the audio volume pedal approach.

 

THIS. This may be the cleanest solution for a Midi idiot such as myself. So when I'm playing pads on the Kronos (set to Local) then they flow into my KBR-3D controlled by the expression pedal. And I don't have to adjust anything on the CX. LIkewise, I can play organs on the CX keys without having to turn down the volume knob on the Kronos. Hope this works!

[Dave Weiser]

THIS.  This may be the cleanest solution for a Midi idiot such as myself.  So when I'm playing pads on the Kronos (set to Local) then they flow into my KBR-3D controlled by the expression pedal.  And I don't have to adjust anything on the CX.  LIkewise, I can play organs on the CX keys without having to turn down the volume knob on the Kronos.  Hope this works!

 

I hoped you would like this!

 

Finding the clean solution is a huge priority at my day job, programming for theater shows, where a keyboard catastrophe means I'll be back to waiting tables! 

 

Here's a quick clip of our rigs in action, this time at Les Miserables in Mexico City (final rehearsal before moving to the pit).

https://www.facebook.com/487177778030039/videos/1639352076145931

 

During non-COVID times, we've got close to a hundred of these rigs in use around the world at any given time, with Boss FV500L and/or Roland EV5 pedals, with a pile of fresh spares nearby, ready to deploy in a pinch. We use the single pedal controlling two keyboards on School of Rock, but I don't have any clips from that show.

 

Let us know how it goes!

[Losendoskeys]

I'd accomplish that via MIDI.

 

Exactly.

I've used this for 15years, works a treat.................

.

Midi Pedal Controller

[hirsute]

buy a used Key Largo and run the whole mixer with 1 Vol. pedal and two stereo control cables into and analog stereo pedal....Just trim with the patch vol. or instrument main Vol. knobs...

I did that in a short lived 80's project .. worked out well... really the way to go for more than input 2 sources ... but you only have 2 so a pedal may do it depending on how you run signal

 

I second using a Radial Key Largo. You can run one volume pedal out of the Key Largo for all of the boards going into it, get the advantage of being able to submix your levels, and can send separate stereo signals to your monitor (the Motion Sound) and FOH from the Key Largo.

[Mr. Nightime]

For a long time I did something similar with my Yamaha MM8 and Hammond SK2

 

I used a pair of FC7 pedals. There is a plate on each one that allows them to be connected to each other.

 

With this, you can change the volume on one or the other, or just by repositioning your foot, work both