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Originally Posted by Geoff Grace
Originally Posted by MAJUSCULE
Just, ya know, throwing it out there that most posters here (myself included) are not the concerned slice of humanity, and therefore, should maybe just take a seat and listen for a bit.

...And on that note:

Women Only - Does the "Gearslutz" name bother you?

Best,

Geoff

Thanks for this, Geoff. I'd encourage everyone to read through this linked thread and sit with those replies for a bit.


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Originally Posted by Chip McDonald
You're making a straw man.

Ah, good counter. Let me knock some rust off my debating skills such as they are...they won't be shiny, but maybe serviceable.

So where in particular is the non-equivalence (since the strawman argument is based on substitution of an original contention with a non-equivalent distortion of the original contention).

Is it that "slut" and "House-N***" are not both slurs? Or that one is a petty slur, and the other is a serious slur? I'll assume that's the non-equivalence you are pointing out - let me know if I'm wrong about that.

"Slut" has a history of being a very serious slur - 'tho I admit it's not as serious as it used to be. But try it out on your female friends, family, and acquaintances, and see how petty a designation they seem to feel it to be. Practice your ducking skills, first, I would suggest.

But I'll accept that my made-up example is a purposeful exaggeration, and that in this day and age, the racial slur is a "felony" while the sexual slur is a "misdemeanor".

Still, I don't think I'm using a strawman, because an exaggeration is not necessarily a distortion. My point was that a lot of posts in this thread seemed to take the stance that, if a slur is used in the context of self-deprecating humor, then it's ok to use the slur. As a matter of principle. My argument is that, no, it's not ok because that usage of the slur is still a perpetuation of the slur. The "joke" would have no point if the slur were not still considered a hurtful, negative term. Since a lot of guys seem to be under the impression that "slut" is too lightweight a term to get all exercised about, I used a heavy-weight slur in my example to make my point.

I should mention I suppose that I was chatting about this current thread kerfuffle with my wife, and when I said the word "Gearslutz" she made a disgusted face and said, yeah, that's clearly a guy's forum.

So...if it's accepted that "slut" is still a bad word to use against someone, I think my point stands. If "slut" has been emptied of negative connotations in this day and age, then my point falls.

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Somehow I believe the word "gear" factors in as a modifier to the word that follows it, like an adjective. The two words are contextual.
Musicians have colorful language (not that this is good) and it's the world in which we live. Musicians say things like, "I'm gonna whore myself out as a hired gun." after their failure at writing their own tunes or failing at getting a recording contrct. Context matters in terms of the audience and participants.
There's a YouTube channel by an RV woman who goes by name "WonderHussy". Is this OK because she's a woman? Will she get reported someday as being offensive?

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Originally Posted by MAJUSCULE
Originally Posted by Geoff Grace
Originally Posted by MAJUSCULE
Just, ya know, throwing it out there that most posters here (myself included) are not the concerned slice of humanity, and therefore, should maybe just take a seat and listen for a bit.

...And on that note:

Women Only - Does the "Gearslutz" name bother you?

Best,

Geoff

Thanks for this, Geoff. I'd encourage everyone to read through this linked thread and sit with those replies for a bit.

No kidding. Particularly now that there are more replies than there were when it was originally posted. It might be a bit of a wake-up call, sad as it is.


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Originally Posted by Nowarezman
Originally Posted by Chip McDonald
You're making a straw man.


Is it that "slut" and "House-N***" are not both slurs? Or that one is a petty slur, and the other is a serious slur? I'll assume that's the non-equivalence you are pointing out - let me know if I'm wrong about that.

No, you're quite right, thanks for illustrating my point.


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I see the first thing the new Congress has decided to be worthwhile isn't mask mandates, vaccine plans, $2,000 stimulus... but to eliminate gender adjectives from the floor of the House.

After a prayer to "the monotheistic god" it was closed with "Amen and a woman".


I'm sorry, this is complete anti-intellectual buffoonery masquerading as some sort of neo-puritan philosophy. If a person can't accept nuance in wording with a sense of humor they're mentally deficient.


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So many good posts here, but I exceeded my unknown-to-me 20 "likes" per day, so don't anyone feel offended if I didn't "like" their post. :-)

Although I did understand the term to be a form of G.A.S. when a friend told me about GS a number of years ago, the name DID convey to me that it was a male hangout, whether intentionally hostile to women or not, so I thought it was ill-thought-out and in poor taste even if not explicitly harmful or poor-intentioned.

Having said that, the toxic atmosphere on that forum is why I have never joined, and still wouldn't after a name change, unless somehow that name change encouraged people to be friendlier. Unlikely that it would, but it would be worth it to me if it at least improved the gender ratio of the contributors. No way to know ahead of time, and I'm in agreement with Majuscule about this being a decision for the affected parties and not us men.

As for men calling other men sluts, or themselves sluts in self-deprecation, as a bi member of the LGBTQ community I have only ever heard that amongst gay men (so far).


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I've been a GS user for a number of years but evidently I've managed to stay out of the "toxic" parts. People can be a little snappy at times, but I haven't seen too much of that everywhere (not counting the dedicated political threads lol).


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It hasn't been as toxic the past year or two, after they started censoring and banning people.


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I surf there about every two weeks, and I see nothing compelling for me to go back. Too much noise, too much attitude, where's the beef?

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Originally Posted by The Real MC
I surf there about every two weeks, and I see nothing compelling for me to go back. Too much noise, too much attitude, where's the beef?

Here and there, now and then, I've been considering some piece of audio gear - not high end or top shelf but apparently functional and potentially useful. My classic searches are "name of product + review" or "name of product + forum". I've gained useful knowledge to guide my decision many times.

Sometimes, there are links to the topic on Gearslutz. That can mean anything from a sensible person who has the item explaining the pros and cons realistically to somebody getting shredded because they don't have an original Neumann U-47 and therefore will never be able to do anything good, ever.

It doesn't take long to spot which is which.

The only place I've found anything like that on MPN is some of the older threads on the George Massenberg forum. I guess all the noise moved from there to Gearslutz?
Everybody here seems to able to chime in and be helpful without getting puffed up and belligerent. That doesn't mean that everybody on here is always correct, I've had my moments just for one.

It is a value added feature, being reasonable and polite but still able to pop off a joke here and there.


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Apparently the cancel culture outrage mob has won again, in the Gearslutz Newsletter email today:

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One month down, eleven to go… 2021 is off to an interesting start. ICYMI, the main bit of news for us so far is that by the summer… we won’t be called Gearslutz anymore! We have taken the decision to rebrand the community to make the name more inclusive, so no more worrying about company firewalls or whether anyone is peeking over your shoulder. It is a significant technical undertaking so we’ll need some time to get it right (and not break all your old bookmarks) but we’ll keep everyone posted. Regarding the new name - stay tuned, we'll tell everyone when we can!

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„Cancel culture“ isn’t a thing.

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Originally Posted by Greg Mein
Apparently the cancel culture outrage mob has won again.

Boycotts of companies, for a variety of reasons, have been happening for as long as I can remember. It's not a new thing, it just has a catchy name now smile

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Originally Posted by analogika
„Cancel culture“ isn’t a thing.

Actually, it kind of is, but it’s simply re-surging in popularity and from a different ideological point than in the past. Don’t forget where doxxing came from. Even the good old New York Times says as much. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/t-magazine/cancel-culture-history.html

That said, what happened here wasn’t cancel culture at all. There was a petition, not a hallmark of cancel culture. Neither was there doxxing or intimidation of the administrative team. This was simply a user base reasonably asking for some changes without harassing anyone - the way it should be done.

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Wow, am I the the only one that’s totally offended by use of the term “Gear” in the name? ... i think it should be changed to “music equipment” rolleyes

But seriously, I think this is a great conversation and, while I have nothing of substance to add, I wanted to convey what a thought provoking discussion this has been for me to follow and I appreciate everyone’s input. I personally never considered the use of the term as derogatory but just thought it was a clever use of a slang expression denoting an exuberance for all things music gear related. I’ve visited that site while trying to do research for different music related purchases but, as others have said, it really is difficult to get through all the static there to get much useful in depth information.

So, in the end, I always end up coming back here to get the opinions and real world experiences from you guys/gals and try to make an educated decision based on these ... and you have always been spot on for the most part.

A great example of how a “real forum” should operate.

Thank you all for your insights!


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Originally Posted by The Real MC
Wait until they land on "muff wiggler"

There is a thread at the MW forum trying to get the new owners to change the name.

As for Gearslutz, I vote for GAS Whores.


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Originally Posted by ChrisDespo
So, in the end, I always end up coming back here to get the opinions and real world experiences from you guys/gals and try to make an educated decision based on these ... and you have always been spot on for the most part.

A great example of how a “real forum” should operate.

There's that quote from Eleanor Roosevelt..."Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." Just think how valuable social media would be, if the participants discussed ideas instead of people. I'd much prefer "how do we make this better?" than "It's your fault that things are bad."

Ultimately, to me the Gearslutz flap is simply a business changing with the times.

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Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted by analogika
„Cancel culture“ isn’t a thing.

Actually, it kind of is, but it’s simply re-surging in popularity and from a different ideological point than in the past. Don’t forget where doxxing came from. Even the good old New York Times says as much. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/t-magazine/cancel-culture-history.html

That said, what happened here wasn’t cancel culture at all. There was a petition, not a hallmark of cancel culture. Neither was there doxxing or intimidation of the administrative team. This was simply a user base reasonably asking for some changes without harassing anyone - the way it should be done.
Thanks for that link.

I stand corrected: "cancel culture" is a real thing.

It's just not what's going on here, at all.

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Originally Posted by Anderton
Just think how valuable social media would be, if the participants discussed ideas instead of people.

That's how I thought social media was supposed to be. Maybe that's the real reason for why I don't find, at least what most people consider "social media" something in which I want to participate. It makes me feel a little more normal to consider that forums like this are also "social media" and we handle it civilly, and discuss ideas and hard stuff like gear, theory, and good practice.

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Originally Posted by Anderton
<...snip...>There's that quote from Eleanor Roosevelt..."Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." <...>

I saw a poster with this quote on it in a post office decades ago, and never realized who it was attributed to. I made my own poster and it hung on the wall of my office for a loge time. Thanks for letting me know it's origin.

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The sex positive community reclaimed the word slut many years ago. You may recall the Slut March a few years ago. Now there are many proud feminist sluts such as Dossie Easton author of The Ethical Slut.

"It’s [the word slut] a defence mechanism of the silliest kind used by masked trolls and acerbic people, and if we think slut is a gaali/slang, then we are participating in a misogynistic narrative. A slut’s life is hers to live, it cannot be compared, judged or disparaged- slut is a woman who is free in her deportment. So, revisit, redefine and bring forth the inner slut in you." https://feminisminindia.com/2020/02/04/feel-liberated-reclaiming-slut-shaming-slang-words/

Of course, context is essential for determining if the use of a word is intended to be an insult or oppressive. IMO the name GearSlutz is in the spirit of the sex positive reclaiming of 'slut" as a term to be embraced not shunned. Just like it is not shameful for a person to openly enjoy sex, it is not shameful for people to openly enjoy music and audio gear.

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Maybe people are spending too much time being concerned about things that don't move the needle, I doubt some casting couch-pig type in Hollywood is going to think "Wait a minute! I shouldn't do this, GearSlutz changed their name!" It may be a case of dealing with the symptom, so that people think things are okay, while the disease still festers underneath.

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I can envision the casting couch director making the starlet sign a consent form before he has his way with her, and the hopeful starlet signing it. Good-bye future lawsuit.

I can also see a budding starlet offering her 'services' to a director knowing that it will give her an advantage that the #metoo gals don't have. "Sign the paper and if you don't tell, no one will see the paper."

Sexual favors have been currency forever, and personally, I don't think anything will ever change that. Some transactions will go smoothly and unfortunately some will get robbed.

And both genders have their own way of using their 'currency' for getting what they want. We have the casting couch or equivalent, and on the other hand we have the gold digger or equivalent.

I think as long as there is mutual consent, everything is OK. Even if it's a transaction. On the other hand if it's forced, it's wrong.

Some people are ethical, and some are not. I choose to be ethical. I prefer to do business with other ethical people.

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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
...
And both genders have their own way of using their 'currency' for getting what they want. We have the casting couch or equivalent, and on the other hand we have the gold digger or equivalent.

...
I think as long as there is mutual consent, everything is OK. Even if it's a transaction. On the other hand if it's forced, it's wrong.

...

Not to turn this into an ethics debate, but I'm sorry, power dynamics can be a dangerous thing. Define "mutual consent" in any situation with a power dynamic. And that's before we get into underage manipulation.

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Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
...
And both genders have their own way of using their 'currency' for getting what they want. We have the casting couch or equivalent, and on the other hand we have the gold digger or equivalent.

...
I think as long as there is mutual consent, everything is OK. Even if it's a transaction. On the other hand if it's forced, it's wrong.

...

Not to turn this into an ethics debate, but I'm sorry, power dynamics can be a dangerous thing. Define "mutual consent" in any situation with a power dynamic. And that's before we get into underage manipulation.

I think you're right that there's a gray area between mutual consent and force...like someone consenting to be forced, not because they like it, but because they feel it's something they need to do.

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Yes, there can be a file line between consent and implied force.

When I worked for the phone company, I consented to climb poles, which is a very dangerous thing to do, even if you follow all the rules. You could fall due to a pole that rotted on the inside, not detectable by you, and break bones. I fell 18 feet once, with a pole that was rotted internally at that height, and other than a splinter the size of a pencil that poked in and out of my arm and numerous small scrapes, I was OK. I got paid my weekly wage and the Bell System nurse fixed my wounds. If I refused to climb poles, I wouldn't have gotten the Telco job.

Is that better or worse than saying "if you grant me a sexual favor I'll give you the starring role in a new potentially blockbuster movie that might make you a millionaire?"

The person applying for the job can refuse, and many of them do. So they don't get the part.

And how is that different from the potential starlet who offers the director a roll in the hay for the role? Should the director cry #HeToo?

I don't have the answers, I'm just asking.

Grocery store workers, bus drivers, and other essential workers are consenting to risk their very lives in order to continue to bring home a paycheck. Is that worse than a roll on the casting couch?

When Motown offered our manager a contract, it was for 2 cents per record, and out of that came recording fees, promotion fees, distribution fees, plus they put in a ghostwriter for half the songwriting royalties, they wanted full publishing rights, they wanted to own the name, so they could hire and fire anyone they wanted. That's called getting screwed in my book. We refused and another band took the bait.

I don't pretend to understand what it is to be a woman, so I cannot walk the proverbial mile in their shoes.

To me, as long as it's safe sex, neither party is committing adultery, and both parties have consented, I don't see a problem. But as I said, it's from a male point of view.

When I was young, and on the road in a rock band that eventually was the opening act for big stars, I had the privilege of being intimate with a number of young women. I never forced anyone, I hope they enjoyed it as much as I did, and I remember many of them very fondly to this day. To my knowledge I never had intercourse with a married woman, someone under age, and always made sure they were on 'the pill' (it was the Pre-AIDS era). Often the women chased me (how lucky is that?!?!) I don't feel abused by the ones who came on to me.

Most men are going to ask women for sex. It's one of our drives. It's what we do. If we didn't we probably wouldn't get any. Men will sometimes offer something for it, dinner and a show, a weekend in The Hamptons, a Caribbean Cruise, presents, drinks at a bar, or whatever people who don't have saxophones do to woo a lady. Is that so much different from offering a starring part in a movie? I'm just asking.

Personally I would never make sex a bargaining chip in anything. I like mutual attraction, and good old seduction (it's fun). That makes me a non-predator in the #MeToo department. I'm also very much in favor for equal pay for equal work, equal opportunity for advancement based on merit and nothing else. My niece calls me a feminist for those viewpoints, I just call it being fair and decent.

To me sex is more complicated and carries more baggage than it needs to. But I don't think everybody does or should agree with me in that respect.

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