Yamaha YC61 Announced

[niacin]

For you maybe, but for me Roland's Hammond sound in the VR-09/730 is in the same ballpark as that of the Vox Continental

 

I haven't played the Vox yet... I rated the Roland higher only on the basis of actually having all the expected organ parameters available. I also haven't heard the newest organ update in the Roland, for that matter. (I'd agree that the Nord organ beats the original VR09 at least.) But regardless, I was merely placing the VR-730 as 2nd-best to the NS3 for having organ and synth in one. I did not mean to imply it was a close second. It could be in the ballpark of the Vox and still be second. ;-)

 

Yeh I'd agree with that. I sold the VR-09, and almost sold the Vox a number of times before I realized that regardless of its name and Korg's intent, its happy place was as the bottom board of a two-tier rig providing pianos, electric pianos and synths, plus strings and some other miscellaneous sounds. As the Vox thread indicates those of us happy using a semi-weighted board for piano have found this to be its real niche. The YC61 otoh is going to give me a single board option for cover band gigs, and if the organ holds up under the spotlight and the piano collapses to mono ok I'll be able to use it in an electric blues band.

[Fleer]

Love the Vox so much I got three of them. Ideal keybed and wonderful E-Pianos (plus tube-warmth) as well as a plethora of prime Kronos sounds, but I ordered a Roland RD-88 and Kurzweil PC4 for some weighted piano-action. Still, closely looking at the YC61 to get another blend of Hammond.

[Dilo]

I have not tried the new Yamaha but have played the Vox which has a fantastic action and excellent all-around sounds, but maybe the least authentic Hammond tone. For those SK-1 owner's that also have a decent ipad, I recommend trying the IK Multimedia B3X app. I believe the price recently dropped. I was able to use it on one gig right before the lockdown and it sounded great. In settings, just select SK1 and everything maps automatically to the Sk which you can use as a controller only or route audio as well. I ran audio from the SK and combined both just in case of any glitch with the ipad but there were no issues. The leslie alone is worth the price. For reference, I also own a Stage 3 Compact which I use for most gigs, but for jazz gigs playing l/h bass, I still prefer the Hammond, now with killer Leslie.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I have not tried the new Yamaha but have played the Vox which has a fantastic action and excellent all-around sounds, but maybe the least authentic Hammond tone. For those SK-1 owner's that also have a decent ipad, I recommend trying the IK Multimedia B3X app. I believe the price recently dropped. I was able to use it on one gig right before the lockdown and it sounded great. In settings, just select SK1 and everything maps automatically to the Sk which you can use as a controller only or route audio as well. I ran audio from the SK and combined both just in case of any glitch with the ipad but there were no issues. The leslie alone is worth the price. For reference, I also own a Stage 3 Compact which I use for most gigs, but for jazz gigs playing l/h bass, I still prefer the Hammond, now with killer Leslie.

 

So you"re able to run the SK1 through the B3X app"s Leslie simulation, and like it for jazz gigs, or the SK1 straight?

[Dilo]

I do not think you can run the SK1 through the ipad app for its leslie effect, unless someone knows if that is possible. I think they have a vst version of the leslie only. You would just run the B3X directly through its internal leslie and can use the sk1 just as a controller. For precautionary reasons in case the ipad or app froze since it was the first time I used it, I also ran audio from the sk1 at a much lower volume (think layered effect) - all drawbars, chorus, percussion, leslie are auto-mapped. The drawbars are fairly similar so it does not sound like some midi layer, but when you kick in the leslie is where you really hear the difference over the standard internal SK1 leslie.

 

These guys did a real good video for the vst version, more in the gospel vein, but you can hear it here:

[Mighty Motif Max]

I do not think you can run the SK1 through the ipad app for its leslie effect, unless someone knows if that is possible. I think they have a vst version of the leslie only. You would just run the B3X directly through its internal leslie and can use the sk1 just as a controller. For precautionary reasons in case the ipad or app froze since it was the first time I used it, I also ran audio from the sk1 at a much lower volume (think layered effect) - all drawbars, chorus, percussion, leslie are auto-mapped. The drawbars are fairly similar so it does not sound like some midi layer, but when you kick in the leslie is where you really hear the difference over the standard internal SK1 leslie.

 

These guys did a real good video for the vst version, more in the gospel vein, but you can hear it here:

 

Okay, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure from your comment on the jazz gig setup. Automapping sounds great. So what is the setup you are using for the jazz gigs with l/h bass you referred to?

For reference, I also own a Stage 3 Compact which I use for most gigs, but for jazz gigs playing l/h bass, I still prefer the Hammond, now with killer Leslie.

[Dilo]

B3X controlled by SK1. I just like the small form factor for organ-only gigs.

 

You can also control and map it to a Nord, Yamaha or any other keyboard. As far as gigging, I think it's going to be a while, especially in the NY/NJ area. The SK1 was mentioned in many posts above which is why I brought up the B3X as an inexpensive plug and play upgrade option. For commercial / cover band versatility with very good organ, I happen to use the Nord Stage, but the YC61 looks like a great option as well.

[AnotherScott]

For reference, I also own a Stage 3 Compact which I use for most gigs, but for jazz gigs playing l/h bass, I still prefer the Hammond

On the Electro 5 and 6, there is a separate "B3+bass" mode, but that didn't make it into the NS3. But you can basically create it yourself on the NS3 by setting up Panel A with your main organ sound, and then set panel B with your desired LH bass organ sound using just the lowest drawbars and the desired split point, taking advantage of the fact that that panel has its own organ level and bass EQ settings.

 

Even if not doing LH bass per se, the NS3 organ is inherently bass shy compared to others (like the SK1), and a variation of the above solves that as well. Set your Panel A organ up all across the keyboard as you usually would, but then, set up a second organ on panel B, split to cover the range of the bottom up to F3, with a gradual fadeout by setting the crossfade parameter to 12. Use just the lowest drawbars on that sound, and use the EQ to boost the bass full up. That will add the big bottom, and with the Nord's crossfade, there will be no abrupt transition point between the sounds, just the added bottom as you move down the keys.

[Dilo]

Agree with that. Between the 2, I find the NS3 weaker with organ bass. The other method I tried is the same as above but splitting panel A with a sine wave or bass sample on the lower half to layer with panel B's lower organ manual setting if you can't get the eq how you like it. The SK1 and B3X to me is more in the tradition, just pull out your lower drawbars and it gives you what you expect. With regards to all other sounds, I'll take the NS3 any day. I was also looking into the Mojo which I think sounds great, but already owning a SK1, adding the B3X made sense for me.

[Adan]

New Anderton's video A-B'ing organ on the YC and Electro. To my ears, the Electro is better in every respect. Leslie sim on the YC just lacks presence, though perhaps it could be adjusted to stand out more.

 

Coming in second to the Electro is of course not a great result, as most clonewheelers regard the Electro as ranking below the best current clones.

 

 

[niacin]

New Anderton's video A-B'ing organ on the YC and Electro. To my ears, the Electro is better in every respect. Leslie sim on the YC just lacks presence, though perhaps it could be adjusted to stand out more.

 

These videos are useful to some degree, but the YC has three Hammond models and two Leslie models to choose from, and from there you can edit ramp speed, fast and slow speeds, level of the horn and the rotor and background noise, choose mono or stereo output, and then there's the tone knob in the speaker/amp section and EQ, they even tried to model the Hammond pre-amp drive separately from the Leslie amp drive, which I think is otherwise only done in the HX3. I didn't find the YC Leslie offensive out of the box until I pulled the top drawbars and kicked the Leslie up and found the horn to be too fast for my taste, but it can be edited. I think videos are useful for some things, but judging the presence of any keyboard sound isn't one of them. I won't comment further until I've tried soloing over an electric blues band I gig with, but I'll agree that the Leslie sim's presence/cutting through a mix ability is an unknown at this stage, as is how the pianos, which sound great in headphones, survive going mono through PA on a stick (Nord's Petrof 'Black upright' passes this test with honours).

[Adan]

A video like this is just a data point to consider until you can actually play one. And in fairness, the Nord doesn't sound hugely better than the YC. The biggest difference to my ears in this video is the leslie sim, but obviously the reviewer didn't take time to try to adjust it.

 

I also noticed a comment under the video from someone who'd played the YC at NAMM, who said something like the action was quieter and smoother than Fatar. lacking the snappiness of the latter. Again, a big plus, if true.

[MikeT156]

Love the Vox so much I got three of them. Ideal keybed and wonderful E-Pianos (plus tube-warmth) as well as a plethora of prime Kronos sounds, but I ordered a Roland RD-88 and Kurzweil PC4 for some weighted piano-action. Still, closely looking at the YC61 to get another blend of Hammond.

 

So why is it you have THREE Vox Continentals? One for gigs, one for studio, one in your bedroom for a midnight inspiration? Ha, joking of course.

 

The most important factors in selecting a "Clonewheel" that also has other sounds is, how authentic a Hammond sound you expect, how good of an organist you are, and how much you are willing to pay for such an instrument. $2000 is a premium price for a KB, but if the above three criteria are high, the Yamaha looks like an instrument that will stay in a great player's stable for years. Yamaha equipment lasts for decades with reasonable care, and is a long term investment.

 

A more casual player might not be able to justify that price range instrument, the Vox Continental fills that role at a nice price.

[niacin]

I also noticed a comment under the video from someone who'd played the YC at NAMM, who said something like the action was quieter and smoother than Fatar. lacking the snappiness of the latter. Again, a big plus, if true.

 

Yeh, it's more like the Vox Continental, not springy like the Fatar action on my SK1 or the Electros, I find it much easier to control dynamics on a piano patch with the Yamaha or Vox key action.

[rogs]

I'm waiting for our local dealer to get the OK to open again .... Looking forward to trying out the YC61 action. That will be a big deciding point for me...

 

As an 'older amateur' player I can't really justify the cost of a keyboard like this, but it would give me the chance to realise a 50 year old dream ...

Back in the day (early 70s) I worked as a Hammond organ tech here in the UK...With a C3 (there were very few B3s in the UK) costing the price of a new car, there was no way I would ever be able to buy one on a tech's salary....

 

Now perhaps I can get close to having that 'Hammond' sound in my own home after all these years..

 

One of the ironies of how the world has changed...... In those days, the majority of my customers played 'straight' organ, rather than jazz or rock, and it was 'key click' and 'rotor noise' that were two of the most common complaints !

Whoever would have guessed they would turn out to be major sales features 50 years on ?

[ChazKeys]

Anyone bought one yet? Or know anyone who has? I just dont think it will sell even if the action is superior to the Nord Electro. Who is going to pay the extra £400. Most retailers in the UK have it listed at around £1679 - that is a lot of money for a 61. You can pick up an E5D 61 for £1289 and the 73 is around £1435. Dont know what the price difference is in the US but I imagine its the same.

 

Yamaha please drop the price! What about £1349? Might be tempted at a lower price and it might work well with the B3-X.

[kenheeter]

I'm thinking it might make a great companion for my Crumar Seven. It offers drawbar organ, acoustic piano and synth and seems to be a good controller. It might just fill a need in my gear.....

[AnotherScott]

I just dont think it will sell even if the action is superior to the Nord Electro. Who is going to pay the extra £400.

Well it is a much more flexible board. As I said at the top of the thread, "Advantages over Electro include pitch/mod controls, presumably multi-velocity layered sounds for things other than pianos, what looks like a clever drawbar design that combines the physical drawbars with LED indicators, monophonic synth mode with portamento, FM sounds, eight single-button patch recall buttons instead of four, and more flexibility in splits/layers, effects, MIDI, and envelope and filter controls. Remaining Nord advantages appear to be the ability to use stereo out as dual mono outs (organ out one side), custom sample loading, downloadable alternate pianos and other sounds." Then it comes down to your own eval of the sounds and action.

 

 

But the bigger counterpoint might be geographic... in the U.S., the YC61 is $200 cheaper than the Electro.

[counterpoint]

They just started being distributed here in the US through on line sales. Received mine on Saturday.

 

Have to say I agree with pretty much everything that Niacin said in his short form review from a couple weeks ago. Keyboard feels great to me....much better than my Nord Electro 4. Still tweaking the Leslie Sim...slowing down the fast horn is a must...but it can be done to whatever number you want. Leslie also sounded a little "weak" compared to my NE4 and there is no "Close mic" option...but they do have separate volume controls for the rotor and horn and turning those up seems to roughly be the equivalent. I like the Rhodes and Wurli emulations...and the other instrument samples, although somewhat limited in number, are all of very good quality.

 

The synth section is no Nord Stage but it is very functional for cover band stuff IMO....I actually like the shared EG/Filter knob...I have already found myself using it quite a bit to quickly dial in sounds. You do need to menu dive a bit for a couple things. It seems pretty clear there will probably be some FM voice expansions in future OS updates as the FM voice selection is rather limited right now for an eight operator engine....although there are seven different FM EP's...that was enough already...was expecting to see David Foster walk into the room.

 

Two other things it doesn't have that the Nord does in addition to the things AnotherScott pointed out in a previous post is sympathetic resonance for the acoustic pianos (YC does have a damper pedal resonance "effect") but I'm still very happy with the acoustic sounds...and strangely the vibrato doesn't function with the transistor organ emulations, but you can use effects to imitate.

 

Other than that, functionally, it's all upside compared to the Electro IMO. It has the pitch and mod levers, the combo Drawbars/LED's. I really appreciate having lit markers on every knob so you know exactly where you are....that drives me crazy with Nord...they seems so hung up on making the Electro a strictly by-the-ear instrument. The internal Steinberg USB Audio interface works great...so my computer VST's can be controlled by and pumped through the YC into its outputs. There is a much broader set of effects and ways to chain them. I definitely like the layout better than the Nord...it's more intuitive to me at least...I'm not really a knob grabber while I play but it quickly had me doing a lot more of that.

 

All-in-all I'm very happy with it so far...definitely the right choice for my needs...with this I can be a one very light weight board/no mixer guy.

[ChazKeys]

 

But the bigger counterpoint might be geographic... in the U.S., the YC61 is $200 cheaper than the Electro.

 

Well thats really interesting. So that must mean we are getting Nords much cheaper over here The YC61 should be selling at a similar price to the Electro given the extra features. A YC73 would make more sense in terms of a controller keyboard though.

 

BTW one issue with the CP73 and I reckon it will be the same with YC is that it transmits a bunch of controller messages when you change presets. Makes it quite tricky to use a controller keyboard.

[kenheeter]

How is the vibrato/chorus? It doesn't appear to be adjustable from the manual and one of the things that drives me crazy about all of the Nords is that C3 is just too heavy. The demos haven't really shown this well yet. I'm strongly considering this!

[rogs]

. Most retailers in the UK have it listed at around £1679 - that is a lot of money for a 61. You can pick up an E5D 61 for £1289 and the 73 is around £1435. Dont know what the price difference is in the US but I imagine its the same..

 

One or two UK retailers seem to have stock for sale at £1599.. so the price has started to drop - a little!

 

I think the price difference may be the other way round in the US -- the Nord is more than the YC61 ?

[AnotherScott]

I really appreciate having lit markers on every knob so you know exactly where you are...The internal Steinberg USB Audio interface works great

Oh, yes, those are two more pretty significant YC61 advantages over the Electro that I hadn't mentioned. I'm guessing the knobs endless encoders?

 

So that must mean we are getting Nords much cheaper over here

Yeah, I guess because in a sense they were "domestic" products, with Sweden being part of the EU. I wonder if that pricing advantage may change with brexit.

[counterpoint]

How is the vibrato/chorus? It doesn't appear to be adjustable from the manual and one of the things that drives me crazy about all of the Nords is that C3 is just too heavy. The demos haven't really shown this well yet. I'm strongly considering this!

 

Kenheeter...just A/B'd it with my NE4. To me the Vibrato is virtually identical. The Chorus sounds slightly lighter on the YC. It is not adjustable on the YC.

 

 

 

I really appreciate having lit markers on every knob so you know exactly where you are...The internal Steinberg USB Audio interface works great

Oh, yes, those are two more pretty significant YC61 advantages over the Electro that I hadn't mentioned. I'm guessing the knobs endless encoders?

 

Yes...the knobs are endless. An additional benefit is LEDs showing speed and position of Leslie rotor and horn.

[kenheeter]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'd love to hear some sustained organ notes with and without the C3 applied. Any chance of a demo sometime?

[ChazKeys]

So that must mean we are getting Nords much cheaper over here

Yeah, I guess because in a sense they were "domestic" products, with Sweden being part of the EU. I wonder if that pricing advantage may change with brexit.

 

Yep, good point once we leave the EU we could end up paying US prices for Nords - oh dear. But Yamaha products might be cheaper

 

. Most retailers in the UK have it listed at around £1679 - that is a lot of money for a 61. You can pick up an E5D 61 for £1289 and the 73 is around £1435. Dont know what the price difference is in the US but I imagine its the same..

One or two UK retailers seem to have stock for sale at £1599.. so the price has started to drop - a little!

I think the price difference may be the other way round in the US -- the Nord is more than the YC61 ?

 

Yes as AnotherScott pointed out earlier YC is about $200 dollars less than the E6D 61in the US.

[counterpoint]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'd love to hear some sustained organ notes with and without the C3 applied. Any chance of a demo sometime?

 

That will test my technical skills but I will try over the next couple of days.

 

Couple of other differences I notice comparing the sound of the organs. UnEQ'd or amped, the Nord seems centered at a lower frequency than the YC so the YC sounds a little more nasally and forward. I'm not a B3 aficionado so I can't tell you which one is more "authentic".

 

The Leslie sims are very different to my ears. At fast speeds the Nord is effect is stronger and smooth while the YC is more subtle and has undertones of half and double time beating. Even with adjustments I've made so far I can't get the YC to sound like anything close to the Nord. Again, I haven't sat in front of a Leslie in probably 40 years so I can't tell you which is more "authentic". For me either is fine but I know this is a huge issue for some of you.

[niacin]

Anyone bought one yet? Or know anyone who has? I just dont think it will sell even if the action is superior to the Nord Electro. Who is going to pay the extra £400. Most retailers in the UK have it listed at around £1679 - that is a lot of money for a 61. You can pick up an E5D 61 for £1289 and the 73 is around £1435. Dont know what the price difference is in the US but I imagine its the same

 

Yes. Me. In Australia the Electro 6D-61 (AU$2899) is $100 more than the Yamaha (AU$2799). The Nord Stage 3 compact is just shy of AU$5k. I dunno, maybe red paint is expensive in Sweden? Specs-wise the YC has it all over the Electro, and I think sounds are of equal quality and a matter of taste. YMMV.

[niacin]

How is the vibrato/chorus? It doesn't appear to be adjustable from the manual and one of the things that drives me crazy about all of the Nords is that C3 is just too heavy. The demos haven't really shown this well yet. I'm strongly considering this!

 

I think it's fine, but I get the impression from posts on this forum that if you're a jazz organist and you really care about vibrato, maybe want that Charles Earland sound, these jack of all trades clonewheels are not going to be your cup of tea, and you want to be looking at a Legend or an HX3 or similar. Having said that, on the Hammond SK1 I ended up using the chorus 2 setting cause chorus 3 was a bit too much, the Yamaha doesn't have that problem imo, but ymmv.

[niacin]

While I'm here, I'll add that I've fiddled around with electric piano sounds enough to have discovered that, as I mentioned in the earlier review regarding the clav, the amplifier/cabinet simulations are the key. I now have a couple of really playable Wurli patches that approach the quality of those on the Vox Continental.

 

And the bad news: you can't set the footswitch to kick the leslie up to tremolo when you press it and back to chorale when you release it, you have to press it twice. I really like the effect of a Leslie winding up and then pulling out as it reaches tremolo. Or maybe I've just learnt to avoid the tremolo setting on the SK1 Leslie sim cause it's just too fast. Who knows. You may care, or not.