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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3000512 07/27/19 03:38 AM
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Back to the same chatter on the PC4’s action as we were when the SP6 was announced because it’s not easy to walk into a shop and find a Medeli SP2400 (which I’m assuming has the action in question but can’t confirm) or an SP6. That’s a shame really, but that’s how it goes. Have to rely on the reviews of owners and a good 30/45 return policy.


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: AnotherScott] #3000520 07/27/19 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Jaspla
In the past I have also owned (and let go of) several other keyboards (Roland RD-800, Korg SV-1, a Roland FP series, and others)

I'd be curious to know how you compare the feel of playing EPs on the SP6 vs. the SP6.

Originally Posted by Jaspla
In the case of the SP6/Medeli K6, I'm finding that Kurzweil has, in their included 10 velocity curves, provided adequate options to adjust touch for an appropriate sensitivity whether playing acoustic piano samples, organ, or a variety of other sounds.

Can you save a particular velocity curve with a particular sound?


The manual seems to indicate that you can associate different velocity curves with different programs. This is not possible on the SP6.

Last edited by Coker; 07/27/19 10:59 AM.

CP4, ZXA1, CA93, SP6
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3000524 07/27/19 12:45 PM
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Both AnotherScott and Coker have asked:
"I'd be curious to know how you compare the feel of playing EPs on the SP6 vs. the SP6"

Sorry, I'm not exactly sure of the requested comparison. However I can state that I find playing EP's on the SP6 quite enjoyable - I have explored the velocity curve options and it seems one of the options having a lighter touch then their 'Pianotouch' might work best for Rhodz.
The variations of Kurzweil program/sounds, and those created by their Users are quite good. My reference point is from owning a couple of Rhodes and a Wurtlizer 200 EP in the past (although quite a while ago). Of the boards that I had mentioned, I did find the Korg SV1 to be near the top with regards to Rhodes/EP, sound and touch, however I found that keybed did not meet my desires when playing Acoustic.

Velocity Settings - SP6 map appears to be global (not tied to a program/sound)
However when using Programs/sound employing multiple zones, when saving an edit, there appears to be some sort of option where for any zone:
"..Key Low and Key High parameters set the playable key range of each Zone by setting the lowest and highest playable key of each Zone. Keys played within this range will trigger
a note for the selected Zone. .. (You can also set a range where playing velocities will not trigger a note, by setting Velocity Low to a higher velocity than Velocity High)...".
This option is described in the SP6 Musician's Guide (manual) page 5-3. I have not explored this at this time.

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Jaspla] #3000527 07/27/19 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaspla
Both AnotherScott and Coker have asked:
"I'd be curious to know how you compare the feel of playing EPs on the SP6 vs. the SP6"

Sorry, I'm not exactly sure of the requested comparison.

LOL, I meant to type "SV1 vs. the SP6" (subsequently corrected).

You kind of began to address that anyway, with...

Originally Posted by Jaspla
Of the boards that I had mentioned, I did find the Korg SV1 to be near the top with regards to Rhodes/EP, sound and touch, however I found that keybed did not meet my desires when playing Acoustic.

So it sounds like SP6 beats SV1 for acoustic, but how would you compare them for playing EPs, in the overall experience (sound and touch)?


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3000714 07/28/19 09:15 PM
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'AnotherScott' - Trying not to deviate too far from this Kurzweil PC4 thread...

I owned the SV1 some 7 years ago, shortly after they were released - I still occasionally play them when it's spotted in a retail shop.
The SP6 keybed seems to be slightly more weighted than the RH3 on the SV1.

SP6 - I have found several EP sounds that I like from within the keyboard or obtained thru one of their forums – and, have been exploring further tweaks with the PC Editor.
- some of those sounds developed by Dave Weiser, a sound designer, that had a previous association with Kurzweil
https://www.weisersound.com/kurzweil – also a source for Kurzweil products

For SP6, since the Editor is so comprehensive, you would likely use it to prefigure and save desired sounds/programs to the board.
A cursory look at the manual for the PC4 seems to indicate that a lot of the editing that needs to be done with the external editor for the SP6 is capable of being done 'on board' the PC4.

At this point I can say I am quite pleased with the EP sounds provided, or that I've acquired, or customized, along with the keytouch/performance of the SP6 - it is now the primary gig keyboard.

An advantage of the SV1 was the numerous knobs/controls on the front for quickly customizing your sound, changing Amps, on-the-fly adjustments, and tube circuit that seemed to provide the 'warmth' of original Rhodes/EP.

Having the Kurzweil SP6 with the Medeli K6 keybed, I would quickly select this over the SV1, particularly when presented with the extensive suite of exceptional Kurzweil sounds, multiple zones, and the extensive (almost overwhelming) amount of customization you can do with one of the external editors – which I'm still in the process of exploring.

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3000839 07/29/19 02:19 PM
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The PC4 is listed for pre-order by at least one retailer: $1995.00


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3001015 07/30/19 11:51 AM
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That's quite an attractive price. I'm not in the market, but a nice-feeling synth-weighted 76 at c.1700 would be tempting...

Cheers Mike.


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3001910 08/05/19 08:10 PM
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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3001949 08/06/19 12:30 AM
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I'm looking at either the MODX or the PC4. I like the weight, price... all boxes seem to be checked but the KB3 is awesome. Used to have a Forte... do they have the same architecture on the APs, EPs & organs?


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: PianoManChuck] #3002045 08/06/19 06:38 PM
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Chuck,

Nice review.

Why no mention of the FM engine / DX7 Emulation?


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3002067 08/06/19 09:29 PM
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I love my SP6, this makes me want a PC4...


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Tom Williams] #3002085 08/06/19 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Williams
Chuck,

Nice review.

Why no mention of the FM engine / DX7 Emulation?


Because that was a pianist´s review.

Lot´s of features mentioned in this review as "very cool" are features already existing in a PC3.
P.ex.,-
KB3 is the same, except it doesn´t steal polyphony from other "programs" when in "setup/multi" mode and like in FORTE.
The "variation" switch is the same what´s called "switch" (MIDI CC29) on a PC3 ...
It´s a sequencer, a production workstation ...
Already a PC3 was ...
2GB of user RAM for samples ... hmmm,- I always wonder who uses that a lot and how much time it needs filling 2GB of user RAM,- or worst,- changing content "quickly" on demand.

and so on ... all sham ...

Again a new package of crippled FORTE and PC3 and because the Ribbon Controller connection came back, it´s now a PC4.
2 advantages: weight and price

A.C.

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Legatoboy] #3002086 08/06/19 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Legatoboy
I love my SP6, this makes me want a PC4...



yeah, I love my chick ... it makes me want ...

A.C.

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Al Coda] #3002133 08/07/19 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Coda
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
I love my SP6, this makes me want a PC4...



yeah, I love my chick ... it makes me want ...

A.C.


GAS is GAS.... I'm not really gigging much...so it won't happen ..but I may thin out the heard and get one for home and future oldman gigging
The sliders and a few other features would help that made the SP6 harder to get around on as a gigging axe....but sonically and playing wise I am really enjoying the SP6 and the PC4 is a very similar axe.
The AC Pianos are a fresh change for me over Yamaha Nord and Roland....the Kurzweil AC pianos are very varied like Nords are but easier to EQ and sit in a mix.


SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3005915 08/31/19 05:44 PM
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I love my Artis 7 for live performing, in part because of the 10 Quick Access buttons just above the key bed ("Favorites") that allows assignment of 10 programs, splits, etc. I also like its key bed which is perfect for playing piano AND organ parts. I am wondering from anyone who's tried this PC4 if: (1) there's easy access to saved programs (i.e. 1 button), and (2) if the key bed is similar to the Artis 7 and not "clunky" like some of the SP's that Kurzweil has put out, specifically the SP4-7 which I've owned. There's no Kurzweil dealers close to me so I'm going to have to rely--as I have typically--on the opinions and videos of others.


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3005939 08/31/19 09:42 PM
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It has the same keybed as the SP6, but with aftertouch. The keybed is weighted, not a semi weighted or synth action, but is quite usable for APs and organs IMHO. Definitely not clunky like the T100 can be.


CP4, ZXA1, CA93, SP6
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3015119 11/06/19 02:13 PM
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https://sonicstate.com/news/2019/11/06/kurzweil-pc4-ships/

It’s shipping. Let’s hear what y’all think.


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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3015120 11/06/19 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
It’s shipping. Let’s hear what y’all think.

The best sub-30 lb hammer action board ever made.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: AnotherScott] #3015124 11/06/19 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
It’s shipping. Let’s hear what y’all think.

The best sub-30 lb hammer action board ever made.


smile That sub 30lbs and what it means for the action is still a quandary. Have you had your hands on one out in the wild yet, Scott?


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: rockinroller] #3015132 11/06/19 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
That sub 30lbs and what it means for the action is still a quandary. Have you had your hands on one out in the wild yet, Scott?

Yes. I like the action. It's not on my "very favorite" list but I'm finding it very nicely playable without frustration.

Going back over some of the other posts here...

Originally Posted by Al Coda
Again a new package of crippled FORTE and PC3 and because the Ribbon Controller connection came back, it´s now a PC4.
2 advantages: weight and price

Those are big advantages. But there are others.
* Compared to PC3: updated sound set, greater number of real-time controls, ability to load 2 GB of sample data, more polyphony, more fx units, better display
* Compared to Forte, well yeah, its largely a downscaled and lower-priced version of Forte, nothing wrong with that... but it also had the advantage of more real-time controls

Originally Posted by Al Coda
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
I love my SP6, this makes me want a PC4...

yeah, I love my chick ... it makes me want ... .

... a younger and more flexible version?

Originally Posted by rockinroller
I love my Artis 7 for live performing, in part because of the 10 Quick Access buttons just above the key bed ("Favorites") that allows assignment of 10 programs, splits, etc. I also like its key bed which is perfect for playing piano AND organ parts. I am wondering from anyone who's tried this PC4 if: (1) there's easy access to saved programs (i.e. 1 button), and (2) if the key bed is similar to the Artis 7 and not "clunky" like some of the SP's that Kurzweil has put out, specifically the SP4-7 which I've owned.

(1) the buttons on the right can be re-purposed to 10 Quick Access buttons... and there are 50 pages (banks, screens) of Quick Access assignments, so you're not limited to ten, you can create a second page if you want 20, and so forth, up to 500.
(2) It's a hammer action, so very different from either the Artis 7 or SP4-7. The hammer action makes it better for piano and worse for organ, though not as bad for organ as some other hammer actions are, in part because of the high trigger point available for organ playing, and just not being a heavy feeling action as hammer actions go.


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Tom Williams] #3015143 11/06/19 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Williams
Chuck,

Nice review.

Why no mention of the FM engine / DX7 Emulation?


The FM engine was not finished at the time of the review, and the snazzy new FM presets were not included at that time.

BTW The new FM presets are amazing - and they spotlight the new lightning-fast envelopes. They brought in a raging badass to do these, Stephane from Barb&Co, a killer third party sound developer. Lots of fun to be had cascading the FM and non-FM stuff together, really powerful stuff.

As for where the PC4 sits in the big picture... After years of rebuilding as a tiny engineering group, Kurz has now returned the PC series to where it used to be - the mid-range.
For the first time in many years they now have high, middle and entry level ranges covered with very capable boards that compete very well with boards in their respective price and weight classes.
Forte is the flagship, PC4 is the mid-range workstation, SP6 is the low-cost stage piano (that still has 32bit DACs and balanced outs).




Last edited by Dave Weiser; 11/06/19 07:25 PM.
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: AnotherScott] #3015161 11/07/19 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
That sub 30lbs and what it means for the action is still a quandary. Have you had your hands on one out in the wild yet, Scott?

Yes. I like the action. It's not on my "very favorite" list but I'm finding it very nicely playable without frustration.
Just goes to show how subjective/personal actions are. Among weighted actions, I would place this on my “least favorite” list, unless the action I played on the axe at Gearfest was prototype and still in development. It had this bouncy thing going on that I just couldn’t deal with. Of course, one man’s meat, YMMV, yada yada, etc.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3015168 11/07/19 06:40 AM
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How is the action compared to MODX?

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3015179 11/07/19 01:21 PM
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I've had a PC4 for a few weeks now. I find the action comfortable, natural and pretty quick for a fully weighted, hammer action.
I could play it all day without problems.
I'm not a trained pianist though, and the majority of boards I've had, have had synth or semi-weighted actions.
If I was obsessed with having a piano action, I'd buy a piano.
At first, I found the after touch required more pressure than I'm used to, and there's no real give, or squash to the feel.
I've adjusted to it though, and it's good if you don't want a lot of stray AT data clogging up a DAW.

When I heard it had FM, I was like 'ho-hum - been there 30 years ago'. But the FM sounds about the best I've heard,
and I've had many variations of it, both hardware and software. You can import .syx FM sounds directly, and there's a lot you can
do with them once inside the PC4. I've got enough FM sounds to last a lifetime.

Besides the full blown FM section, it's also got individual FM operators that can be used inside VAST programs.
Keymaps and other layers can also be used as inputs, and you can modulate the frequencies as well as the amplitude
of the operators - a technique I really like.

I also play bass, and have been running a line level (pre-amped) bass thru the fx via the audio ins. Sounds great.
Sound quality is top shelf.
And if someone uses software at all, the extra controls, zones, assignments, and flexibility make it one of the best controllers available.
There are some small quirks that need to be worked out with the OS still, but overall,
I'm extremely pleased with it.

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3015182 11/07/19 03:12 PM
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Like the Forte and SP6 - it would be nice to also see it in a synth action with 76 and 61 keys.
Some of these models like the Forte, Montage, Fantom etc. would be desirable keyless format to compete with laptops/software.


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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: hipogrito] #3015192 11/07/19 04:58 PM
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Chris did this one in October - very informative and nice playing as always.



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Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Mr. Mojo Risin] #3015243 11/07/19 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Mojo Risin
How is the action compared to MODX?

I prefer the PC4 action to the MODX8 I played. But that doesn't guarantee that you will...


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: Dave Weiser] #3015248 11/07/19 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Weiser

BTW The new FM presets are amazing - and they spotlight the new lightning-fast envelopes. They brought in a raging badass to do these, Stephane from Barb&Co, a killer third party sound developer. Lots of fun to be had cascading the FM and non-FM stuff together, really powerful stuff.


Sounds promising. Moose Attack and Keys of Gold has been fixed inventory in my PC3X for many years.

Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: AnotherScott] #3015296 11/08/19 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Mr. Mojo Risin
How is the action compared to MODX?

I prefer the PC4 action to the MODX8 I played. But that doesn't guarantee that you will...


Yes to this...It's a more solid action all around in the SP6/PC4 compared to the MODX (and the horrible action in the Yammy MX88 I sold) , I would have to agree w/that for my taste also owning a SP6 and playing the MODX quite a bit in GC when they came out...the only problem I have with it compared to a Yammy action is how it drives fff...really need to dig in a bit more.. but otherwise more balanced and less side to side key movement and more solid feeling...a bit more springy but not in a Nord /Fatar type of way... much more subdued than that.


SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Re: Kurzweil PC4 [Re: AnotherScott] #3015302 11/08/19 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
That sub 30lbs and what it means for the action is still a quandary. Have you had your hands on one out in the wild yet, Scott?

Yes. I like the action. It's not on my "very favorite" list but I'm finding it very nicely playable without frustration.

Going back over some of the other posts here...

Originally Posted by Al Coda
Again a new package of crippled FORTE and PC3 and because the Ribbon Controller connection came back, it´s now a PC4.
2 advantages: weight and price

Those are big advantages. But there are others.
* Compared to PC3: updated sound set, greater number of real-time controls, ability to load 2 GB of sample data, more polyphony, more fx units, better display
* Compared to Forte, well yeah, its largely a downscaled and lower-priced version of Forte, nothing wrong with that... but it also had the advantage of more real-time controls

Originally Posted by Al Coda
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
I love my SP6, this makes me want a PC4...

yeah, I love my chick ... it makes me want ... .

... a younger and more flexible version?

Originally Posted by rockinroller
I love my Artis 7 for live performing, in part because of the 10 Quick Access buttons just above the key bed ("Favorites") that allows assignment of 10 programs, splits, etc. I also like its key bed which is perfect for playing piano AND organ parts. I am wondering from anyone who's tried this PC4 if: (1) there's easy access to saved programs (i.e. 1 button), and (2) if the key bed is similar to the Artis 7 and not "clunky" like some of the SP's that Kurzweil has put out, specifically the SP4-7 which I've owned.

(1) the buttons on the right can be re-purposed to 10 Quick Access buttons... and there are 50 pages (banks, screens) of Quick Access assignments, so you're not limited to ten, you can create a second page if you want 20, and so forth, up to 500.
(2) It's a hammer action, so very different from either the Artis 7 or SP4-7. The hammer action makes it better for piano and worse for organ, though not as bad for organ as some other hammer actions are, in part because of the high trigger point available for organ playing, and just not being a heavy feeling action as hammer actions go.


That "quick access" is not quick enough for my purposes. I play in a trio and not only do the keys parts but also LH bass, so my hand cannot leave the keyboard for more than a split second during a song, to change a program. The Artis 7 (and Forte) locate a row of assignable "Favorites" buttons just above the key bed, in proximity sufficient to make a change without skipping a beat (literally). The "buttons on the right" on this PC4 are at least 3-4 times further away and there's no way I could change programs as fluidly as I do now on the Artis 7. I would love to have 88 notes in a decent gigging weight, but the absence of the "Quick" in "Access" doesn't get it for me.


Kurzweil Artis 7 (2)
Alto TS312 Powered Speaker
Samson 6 channel mixer
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