(how) do you tell people the suck?

[BlueZet]

Having played blues exclusively for the last 5 years I recently joined a cover band, replacing their lead guitar player, who left because of other interests.

 

After 5 rehearsals I am having serious second guesses

 

First of all about myself:

 

1 - I still dont know the songs, I can play them - with my cheat sheet - but it seems to be very hard for me to memorize them, probably because

2 - I dont feel (most of) the songs

3 - I asked them if they wanted note for note reproductions, since that is one thing I wont do. NO, we play our own version of the songs up till now Ive had at least 6 times (in 5 rehearsals) where the keyboard player starts but thats not like on the CD, he does deedeedee-dwah-dooh and you go _ I am getting tempted to tell him to put on the cd then, since I have no intention to learn songs note for note and no time to even if I wanted to (which I told them up front, even BEFORE I went to the audition)

 

and about the band

 

4 singing is off key A LOT (I know, I am not Pavarotti either, but) by both singers, and neither of them is displaying a lot of charisma (may change once they are out of rehearsal and on stage, but I have my doubts, especially about the girl

5 NO DYNAMICS every song starts full blast and goes on full blast till it ends, PERIOD I tried to introduce them to dynamics, having them play softer while backing singer, going a bit louder in instrumental passages and full tilt during solos, but that lasted about half a tune

6 tempo is wobbly to say the least I have been blessed with VERY solid rhythm sections the last couple of years, but yesterdays rehearsal it was RIDICULOUS

7 - NOTHING is happening, were just reproducing the same thing again and again

 

 

now they have ONE gig lined up for next month, so Ill play that one, but do I tell them Im quitting before or after the gig and more importantly do I tell them WHY or do I make up some excuse

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Well, take a leaf out of the other guitar player's book and drum up some "other interests" to drag you away from the band.

 

Or just say, "look, it's not really me", which of course, happens. I'd tell them after the gig, so it doesn't ruin their morale.

 

The band you describe sound as if they have way too many problems to solve, even if they DID accept that they have problems in the first place. Whether you are imagining those problems or not is irrelevant. Music is all about one's personal taste and, if you think they suck, then they DO.

[BluesWithoutBlame]

I'm in a somewhat similar (though in my case, there has been some progress...just not enough)

even down to they had a huge song list they wanted me to learn, which I am still in process of doing, but I hear lots of problems with arrangements.

 

So either I become a pain-in-the-ass for them always "complaining"...etc.

 

I have tried to deal with it with the following steps that seem to have helped...

 

-When they do the "the other guitarist used to play..." (just like they do with you with "the CD goes...") I try to quickly decide if on case-by-case basis, if the idea IS better, or valid, or if it is simply a "style" thing. If it is style, I tell them firmly "I'm not the other guitarist. I play it this way, and like it better". I'm still open for suggestions, but some in my band, one in particular, can get a little too micromanaging for my likes. You are in the band as a musician, you need to play the "right" things, but you need to play what is natural for you.

 

- RECORD (doesn't have to be a great recording, but enough to hear generally how it sounds. I use an old '70's Porta One ministudio) some practices and take time out next practice before people start tuning up, turning on amps, etc, and gather round and listen to some of it. Discuss "is this REALLY how we want to play this?"

 

- Suggest new songs. I used the "look...if you guys want me to learn 60 songs, all with very intricate arrangements, and all, then you are going to have to meet me not even halfway but a LITTLE...I want to be able to suggest a few of my favorite songs, I can bring in a couple and see if you are willing to learn them! (the beauty of this is, 1) you are in on the ground floor, you can have a say in how they are arranged, etc. 2) it FORCES them to LEARN and practice. I bet you have the same thing as my current band...there are a few in the band I KNOW don't practice at home at all...and it shows. and 3) it gets them a little more understanding, when THEY don't nail a part as "on the CD".

 

 

Just a couple of suggestions. Thing is, after all that if there is no improvement, leave!

 

When you listen to new song suggestions, or practice recordings, point out "see...see how they build up there?!" or on a recorded practice "listen, right here...if we really went lower volume, and brought out the KEYBOARDS here, and then the singer came up in the mix"

 

That kinda thing. Get them the idea also that in ANY GIVEN SECOND (or microsecond) of a song there is ONE and ONLY one instrument that ought to be focused on. Meaning, at some point the vocalist is the forefront instrument, at another the lead guitar, at another the keyoards, and that say when a keyboard solo is going on, IF the keyboardist is building up in intensity, 1) you have to have some less-intense start point or you have nowhere to go with it, and 2) the band should be building up with the soloist, gaining in intensity while still featuring the soloist, not stomping on him or her.

 

Just some ideas. It can be frustrating. I wish you luck.

[Pappy P]

Just be honest and move on. Honest as in, "I'm not really into this" . If they ask for a critique , provide one . No need to be cruel . Instead of telling them they suck, tell them they haven't reached your level of playing yet, and wish them luck .

[A String]

I've had that happen. It sucks. I just told them that I had "things" going on in my life right now and didn't have time to be in a band.

 

Your best bet is to start your own band. As a band leader, you can audition each player. You can be in control of how songs are played and how things are run.

 

Of course you don't want to run things like a tyranny, but being the band leader gives you final say in a lot of situations and insures that things will be better suited to your needs.

[Caevan O’Shite]

"How do you tell people the suck?"

 

You don't; you tell them where and how they could improve things. I they're utterly unwilling to listen or consider that you may be on to something, and can not swallow their pride, then don't waste time flogging a dead horse.

 

Conversely, remember that it's a two-way street...

[Funk Jazz]

i decided a long time ago that life is too short to be in a band that sucks

 

 

but seriously honesty is the best policy. just tell them how you feel - you might have an ally in the band that you weren't aware of, and talking about it might change the whole thing.

 

on the other hand, if you don't see any room to grow, personally or as a band, you're kind of wasting your time.

[picker]

Yeah, be honest but nice, but do NOT let things go too long if you don't see marked improvement in the short-term. I let things go way too long with this Elvis impersonator and his kid one time, and it was harder ro make a graceful exit later than it would have been sooner. I tried to tactfully work the problems out, but it never got any better, and in the end they were hurt & unhappy and I felt like a jerk when I just couldn't stand it anymore.

Don't let it go too long, for everyone's sake.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Do the gig then walk away from that!! But also critique yourself next time! I play only covers and always have... some bands insist on very close copying of covers ..some dont. I like to be able to play covers note for note! ABLE is the key word here! make sure that the reason you dont want to copy exact lead lines ISNT because you simply are not a good enough player yet! So of coarse there SIGNITURE licks in all covers..you have got to get those lines down in a cover band! You may NOT be deciplined enough to be successful in a cover band... who knows? only you know!

[NMcGuitar]

A lot of good advice here.

Though I notice most of it assumes that you will leave.

I'd say to see what happens at your gig first. You might have hit a few off nights with rehearsals - they could be feeling "out of the groove" because they are used to the old guitarist, and it's throwing them off. Granted, that kind of inconsistency is not a sign that they are accomplished professionals, but they might be a lot better than you've heard so far.

 

If the gig goes well, give it another shot.

If not, be straight, and tell them that the fit just isn't right. No need to be cruel and tell them they suck (even if they do). As Caevan pointed out, if they ask for a critique, focus on the positives - tell them what they do well, and how they can improve.

 

That's my $0.02

[Shoes]

I know!!!!!

 

....... tell them in a song

 

well I know it's kind of late

hope I didn't keep ya

buy your guitars are out of tune

and timing's out the winda'

every time you try to sing no one can understand the song

so I'll have to say good bye now.. 'cause I'm gone

 

[my apologies to Jim]

[NMcGuitar]

Originally posted by Guitars are like shoes. But louder.:

I know!!!!!

 

....... tell them in a song

 

well I know it's kind of late

hope I didn't keep ya

buy your guitars are out of tune

and timing's out the winda'

every time you try to sing no one can understand the song

so I'll have to say good bye now.. 'cause I'm gone

 

[my apologies to Jim]

LOL!

[Gifthorse]

I say quit before you waste any more of your time, or theirs.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Go to the gig with them ...pain builds character

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by flagshipmile:

I say quit before you waste any more of your time, or theirs.

Absolutely! If you do feel you shouldn't leave them hanging with a gig, give them the option of having you play it. Make it clear you're sincere in learning the material, but outline your gripes as you did here and let them know that you have no intention of screwing up the gig on the books.

 

Chances are they'll ask you to leave now, anyway, but at least you've taken the high road in case they are willing to tough out one gig with you to salvage the booking.

[LPCustom]

Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

"How do you tell people the suck?"

 

You don't; you tell them where and how they could improve things. I they're utterly unwilling to listen or consider that you may be on to something, and can not swallow their pride, then don't waste time flogging a dead horse.

 

Conversely, remember that it's a two-way street...

What he said...

[caprae]

Hope that a couple of them follow this forum.

 

Or like Dear Abby says, print out this column and show them..........Nah.....

[Caevan O’Shite]

badblues-

 

The more I think about it, the more I think that you really should put in an effort to make the best of things here, and no matter what leave on as good of terms as possible (unless you decide to stay aboard even longer).

 

I think that the worst-case scenario should have you willing to make that gig, with them knowing ahead that they should be looking for another guitarist for the long-run. (Much the way Neil details; and, as FunkJazz states, honesty is the best policy.) It can only be a good thing to make friends, not enemies, in this situation.

 

NMcGuitar- Good to see ya, bro'! Thanks for the nod of agreement, too!

 

Guitars are like shoes. But louder.- You're a Rock Mastermind and a guitars are like shoes genius!

 

picker-

 

Originally posted by picker:

"...I let things go way too long with this Elvis impersonator and his kid one time, and it was harder ro make a graceful exit later than it would have been sooner..."

Whaaat... a quick "Thank-y'verah-much" followed by "PICKER HAS LEFT THE BUILDING" wouldn't do it? (Forgive me, picker!)

 

Man, have I got an "Elvis impersonator gig" tale for you...

[Guitarzan]

Originally posted by Funk Jazz:

i decided a long time ago that life is too short to be in a band that sucks

Man Funkjazz can i use that? i need a clever quote for a signature, may i borrow from you?

 

"life is too short to be in a band that sucks"

FunkJazz

[Big Red 67]

Tell 'em like dis, Fuck U, Fuck U, Fuck U, yer cool, Fuck U, I'm out! hehehe

[BlueZet]

Originally posted by ellwood:

... I like to be able to play covers note for note! ABLE is the key word here! make sure that the reason you dont want to copy exact lead lines ISNT because you simply are not a good enough player yet!

I think I'm able enough, it's just that I don't feel like playing the same thing over and over again - then you might just as well play the CD - guess I'm too used to the (relative) freedom of blues bands

So of coarse there SIGNITURE licks in all covers..you have got to get those lines down in a cover band! You may NOT be deciplined enough to be successful in a cover band... who knows? only you know! [/QB]

I played in rock bands before and I've always played the signature licks - down to the parts of the solo everybody whistles when they sing the song

[BlueZet]

Originally posted by LPCustom77:

Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

"How do you tell people the suck?"

 

You don't; you tell them where and how they could improve things. I they're utterly unwilling to listen or consider that you may be on to something, and can not swallow their pride, then don't waste time flogging a dead horse.

 

Conversely, remember that it's a two-way street...

What he said...

which is why I started with MY shortcomings

[Guitar Geezer]

I think that Elvis Impersonator Stories would make a great thread on it's own!

 

Who wants to start?

[Guitar Geezer]

I think that Elvis Impersonator Stories would make a great thread on it's own!

 

Who wants to start?

[therhodeo]

I know exactly how you feel I'm in a band right now with the same tyope problems. I have a bass player who cant sing but insists on singing lead on part of the songs and when he does he only plays quarter notes on hte root and not smoothly either. Very thunk thunk. The acoustic guitar player cant play anything if it has a barre chord of any kind because he cant play them. The strings get caught in the grooves of his fingers or so he says. And worse than all this the drummer can't end a song at the same tempo we start at. Add all this to the fact that they cant change they're own strings or set up the gear and its a pretty frustrating situation. And dont ask why im still with them its kinda complicated.

[BlueZet]

uh... I think I should have named the thread something else, of course I know enough not to tell people they suck, I was actually looking for ways to quit graciously WITHOUT doing so.

it's been done to me and boy, are those guys in my "bad book", something they felt a week after telling me "you can't play" - when my "replacement" (the bass player's friend and reason why I couldn't play all of a sudden in the first place) blew his amp and they came over to my place to ask me if they could borrow mine and all they got was "well, I guess YOU can't play EITHER now, can you?"...

 

I guess my real problem is I don't want to hurt their feelings, otherwise it would be easy: be blunt about it and quit. But although I've only been with them for a very short time, and they're not friends yet, they are nice people and I don't want to be an @$$hole and spoil their fun.

[Squ]

I know how.

 

"Hey guys"

 

"....hey"

 

"the suck"

[Guitarzan]

ask them to rename the band...The Suck!!!

it is actually catchy..isn't it?

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Why wouldd you tell them that they suck? JUST MOVE ON.

 

Bill

[Squ]

HELLO BOSTON

 

WE ARE THE SUCK

 

WE CAME TO ROCK