tone heaven again

[BlueZet]

about 7 years ago I sold a Fender Blues Deville 4x10, because I was having trouble carrying it up and down a narrow stairway to the third floor appartment I lived in. I got me a Hotrod Deluxe that sounded good, but I always missed the 4x10 sound. Then last week I see a Blues Deville on eBay, can't afford to buy it, but the guy mentions there's nothing wrong with the amp, but he needs to get something smaller - now where have I heard that before???

I decide to give it a shot and ask him if he's interested in a HR Deluxe. Turns out that was what he wanted to buy and to make a long story short, next day I drove over to his place, we both tried out each other's amps and I ended up driving home with a Blues Deville in my car, he is now the proud owner of a HR Deluxe with custom made roadcase.

 

yesterday I gigged the amp for the first time and.... TONE HEAVEN. This one is NEVER EVER leaving me!

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

I'm a big fan of the sound of 10s, but four is just too much weight. I've got a late 1960s Fender Super Reverb with the blue Fender Special Design speakers with the square magnets, and I almost never play it.

 

Bill

[Caevan O’Shite]

That's great!

 

Have you ever tried a 2x10" get-up, though? If so, how did you like it, compared to a 4x10"?

 

Have you ever considered a separate head and a 4x10" or 2x10" cab?

 

Could the higher power of the HR/Blues DeVilles vs that of the HR/Blues Deluxes be a part of what you prefer about those amps?

 

Personally, I seem to prefer 2x12" open-back cabs to 4x10" or 2x10" arrangements, as I've percieved more harmonic "swirl", shimmer, and scintillating sparkle- y'know, sort of like that "zing" of new strings- even with the same amp and guitar. Anybody else experience this, or have some insight into why I'd think they sounded that way, or what other 10" speakers might sound that way, too?

[Vin-erator]

Originally posted by badblues:

yesterday I gigged the amp for the first time and.... TONE HEAVEN. This one is NEVER EVER leaving me!

I bought the same amp in 1994, brand new. I still have it. I've retubed it a few times. It needed a repair to the power-circuit about a year ago. I also picked up a road case for it about 18 months ago. I still have it and still love it when I have a gig big enough to bring all of that power along. I only use the clean channel.

 

It has tone for days! If I don't have to, I'll never part with it.

 

I do have a 2x10 Marshall JTM 30 that I use on the majority of my gigs because it works in smaller rooms. I was having trouble getting low end out of it until I changed the power tubes. I found some small-bottle GE style 6L6 tubes from a company called "Tube Amp Doctor" which is distributed by Mojotone. Now it sounds much more like the DeVille. It's just a bit more crisp by comparison.

 

Badblues, enjoy! I'm happy for you.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by ec Vinny:

I do have a 2x10 Marshall JTM 30 that I use on the majority of my gigs because it works ...

I have one too, and I used it a lot. Like you, afrer using it for a while I thought that it was missing some low end. I'll have to try that tube change.

 

Thanks!

 

Bill

[BluesWithoutBlame]

Yeah...that's a nice story.

 

My first "real" amp (this is back in '74) was an Ampeg VT-22 combo with built-in 4 x 10"'s too.

I played an ES-335 through it (still have the guitar) and I loved my tone. It also was a bitch to carry. WHY oh WHY do they put just one "suitcase" handle on the top in the middle? That amp weighed a ton, and only Ah-nold could carry it like a suitcase.

 

I still had it when I moved to Norway, and...it didn't work right and I thought it would be prohibitive in cost to change it over to 220v.

I actually threw it away. Sheesh.

 

Now I have a Carvin MTS3212 with 2x12" combo. I love the sound of it, but I still yearn for the old 4 x 10" sound. I love this amp but it is a lot trickier to get the sound I like. I mostly play a strat through it, and my ES-335 doesn't sound quite as good as it did with the 10"'s.

 

Since it has 2X12" built in, I really ought to see if I can pick up a 4 X 10" cabinet and see how it sounds then!

 

Thanks for reminding me!

[Virtual Jim]

that's an amazing story. congrats!

[NMcGuitar]

I honestly don't know if I've ever played through a 4x10. I've always had amps that were either 1x12 or 2x12.

 

What're the big difernces. I would assume (as a couple have mentioned) that the 10's would have a little more trouble with low end, and perhaps be just a little brighter. Is that true? What else?

[tchipman]

That's a great story. I like 10's also. In the late 60's I used a Super Reverb, with a custom LP. I ran it wide open all the time and ran the volume down on the guitar until it was time for a lead, then up she went. Great amp. Funny that someone mentioned Ampeg 10's. In one band I played in, in about 71, or 72 I used an Ampeg SVT. It had 16 ten's and a huge head. 2 or 4 fans in the back (I can't remember) to keep the tubes cool. Huge cabinets. We really played loud in those days! The other guitar player in that band had some kind of a Sunn stack. We filled up a truck pretty good.

[J J]

So you're back in the Deville club, huh?!

 

I got mine about 2 years ago and still love it (but it's the 212)

 

cant wait to hear what it's gonna sound like once i run some humbuckers through it though. I just orded a LP copy off of rondo a day ago, so im anxious to hear it!

(hopefully w/ yellowjackets, if I can get them to work)

[Big Red 67]

Take some of those "tank tread" things that they are on refridgerator dollies and mount them to the case it came with. Or use a fridge dolly to move it!!!

[TeleCarlos]

I yearn for a 4x10.

 

My friend has one of those re-issue Bassmans 4x10 and his tone is really... "solid". Of course, he plays great also (probly why he sounds good..).

 

I'm guessing the 10"s have a punchier, tighter or "more focused" low end. My current 2x12 amp is too "Boomy" for me.

 

Anyway, a change in sound is what I'm looking for and 10'"s just sound right.

[Guitarzan]

i had a siverfaced super reverb with 4x10s and it has a heavy beast. i used to put a RAT through it. those tens didn't stand a chance. i was dumb then, i wish i had it back.

[revolead]

That's an awesome story. I wish I had something that cool, but I'm still working on getting a tube amp period.

 

To discuss the 4x10 vs. 2x12 argument, I'll ring up my neighbor again, who has an original '65 Super Reverb and a reissue Twin Reverb. Now, to me, I love the tone of both as does he, but personally, I'm with Caevan on the 2x12 just sounding better. A 4x10 works great for blues and seems to be a wonderful choice for a muddier or bassier sound. I'd never buy anything but if that's the tone I was looking for. But for me, I love the shimmer of 2x12s I just can't hear in any other speaker configuration. They seem to capture the subtlties of the guitar just perfectly, probably one reason the configuration has been so popular for so long.

[BlueZet]

Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

That's great!

 

Have you ever tried a 2x10" get-up, though? If so, how did you like it, compared to a 4x10"?

 

Have you ever considered a separate head and a 4x10" or 2x10" cab?

 

Could the higher power of the HR/Blues DeVilles vs that of the HR/Blues Deluxes be a part of what you prefer about those amps?

 

Personally, I seem to prefer 2x12" open-back cabs to 4x10" or 2x10" arrangements, as I've percieved more harmonic "swirl", shimmer, and scintillating sparkle- y'know, sort of like that "zing" of new strings- even with the same amp and guitar. Anybody else experience this, or have some insight into why I'd think they sounded that way, or what other 10" speakers might sound that way, too?

sorry to be this late replying, busy busy blablabla

 

I never tried a 2x10 amp, although I was thinking about converting my HRDx to this configuration, hoping it would more or less sound like a "scaled down" 4x10 - glad I waited this long though

 

I considered a 4x10 cab to hook up to the HRDeluxe, but that would have meant one more item to carry in/out AND taking space in my already too small car...

 

I don't think the higher power comes into the equation here, since

 

1 volume-wise the differenc between 40W and 60W is not THAT huge (something the former owner of the Deville will notice if tries to run the Hotrod above 6 - he got told off by his band mates when he did that with the Deville, reason for the change)

 

and

 

2 I turn up the volume just enough to get past the "transistor radio in the next room" sound: usually I'm somewhere between 2.5 - 4, I might go higher when playing open air on HUGE stage, but generally rely on PA+monitor to get my sound out

 

the 4x10 DOES "spread" the sound more, so it might SEEM louder, but I still put a mic in front of it Saturday night. When playing in small to medium places, turning up loud enough to be heard EVERYWHERE is just not possible,, I stay at low level and rely on our PA system to spread the sound (that way, others keep the volume down as well and we don't have problems with police stopping us because of "noise pollution")

 

have to admit though that I do my adjusting with the guitar volume at "rhythm" setting, which is somewhere around 33%-50% - this way I have some headroom for solo's

 

as for the roadcase, I threw it in with the HRD since it was made to fit anyway - I already gave our sax player a hint that I'll be needing one for the Deville - he made the other one for me, cost me about $30 for some material he hadn't lying around, all the rest was "salvage". He promised he'd make me one as soon as he has the time

[Vin-erator]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

I have one too, and I used it a lot. Like you, afrer using it for a while I thought that it was missing some low end. I'll have to try that tube change.

 

Thanks!

 

Bill

Bill,

You have to use a small version of the 6L6 in the JTM 30. That steel basket over the tubes is part of the problem. The original Sovteks have almost no plastic base where the pins are. If you want to put the basket back on, you are limited to, either, the original Sovteks, or a small bottle, GE style 6L6.

 

Good luck!

vc

[DC]

You guys are nuts. 10"s have way more shimmering high end than 12"s. It's the nature of the beast; especially with clean rhythm guitar. I get nearly any tone I want out of a Boogie Mk IV with one 12", but I have a couple of 4'10" cabs around which are terrific for loud clean rhythm recordings.

[g.]

I wouldn't generalize too much by size. Look how many 12" guitar speakers are on the market. Do they all sound the same? Only to a deaf son of a bitch. Same with tens.

 

And then there is the cab design. That changes the low end especially, and the focus of the sound.

 

One thing I will say about tens. Their beaminess (tighter polar pattern of dispersion) starts at a higher frequency typically, physics that comes with the territory.

[Lee Flier]

Awesome story badblues!

 

Y'know... it's funny cuz I currently play my Pro Reverb (2x12) more than anything else, but I have to say... the best amps I've ever played through are my Ampeg VT-40, and the Vibrolux Reverb. 4x10 and 2x10, respectively.

 

And, about a year ago I played a gig where the guitarist in the other band let me use his Blues Deville, had never played one before and... DAMN. The thing was ungodly loud (well, so's my Ampeg), but MAN what tone! I coulda played my LP through that all day... but boy was it loud.

 

I guess I really really like 10's! I'm psyched to hear what my new Reverend 1x10 sounds like!

 

Anyhow congrats again!

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by NMcGuitar:

What're the big difernces. I would assume (as a couple have mentioned) that the 10's would have a little more trouble with low end, and perhaps be just a little brighter. Is that true? What else?

Well, like greenboy said, they are all different so it's hard to generalize. But if I had to , I'd say that 10's have low end that's more crunchy than rounded, and most pack a really ballsy midrange bite. I wouldn't say they were "brighter" than 12's, either can be bright, but just in a different way. Again it's easier to get a "chimey" shimmery sound out of 12's and easier to get high end crunch out of 10's. Not that 10's can't get clean... but again these are generalizations that don't always apply.

[NMcGuitar]

Thanks, Lee.

 

Maybe I'll have to see if I can get my hands on a cab with 10's and try it out. If nothing else, it may give me one more thing to get GAS over...

[BluesWithoutBlame]

Slightly reviving this threaad :-)

 

badblues....my wife is gunning for you...(just kidding, she's cool as hell about my amp purchases), but I have been pining (in the fjords no less) for a DeVille 4x10 for years, and reading your thread just brought it all up again recently.

 

I also hada a story upstream of throwing away a US power Ampeg V-22 which hurts even now as I write it again...been longing for the sound of 4 10"s.

 

Well, I just boguht me a DeVille 410, and am LOVING it. It is so much in one box, reminds me some of my old Vt-22, and like you...tone heaven.

 

About the weight claims. I also own (and REALLY love the sound of it) my old main amp, a Carvin MTS3212 combo 2x12".

 

The thing is...isn't the DeVille 50 lbs?

With 4 10's even?

 

My MTS3212 with 2 12's weighs in at 62 lbs. !!!

 

This DeVille is feather light in comparison.

Still with the damn suitcase handle in the middle (aren't we guitarists supposed to be spindly armed, former nerds? The governor of California would be grunting if he had to carry this thing as a suitcase!) it is bulky.

 

It is not the weight that is the problem. It is the weight-size. I remember this from my TRULY heavy Ampeg VT-22 (410). That it was so tall and wide that the suitcase made it heavier than its weight. The trick is, don't use the handle. Carry it in both arms and it is a peice of cake, and on top of that, it is safer for the amp. I can't carry it by suitcase without bumping into something. Cradling it in the amrs, you turn to get through doorways sideways, it is just plain easier, lighter (seeming) and safer on you and the amp.

 

Anyway, I LOVE this amp. Folks complain about the drive "channel" on it, being like angry bees, but personally I think it sounds great, I use very little overdrive and it has nice bite. Maybe after time I might want to do something with it...

What sold me most, was playing with the clean channel (and it distorted pretty early, but my pickups are set a little high AND it was the excellent kind of distortion. Bluesy, and also was able to nail that Hendrixy "Wind Cries Mary" or "Little Wing" sound with it.

 

I'm sure the honeymoon will (maybe) pass, but I really am liking this amp!

 

Thanks for reminding me badblues!!

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

I'm a big fan of the sound of 10s, but four is just too much weight. I've got a late 1960s Fender Super Reverb with the blue Fender Special Design speakers with the square magnets, and I almost never play it.

 

Bill

Ya I know what you mean Bill, Ive got a early blackface SuperReverb here with the blue special design speakers and its heavy and with the long box cabinet it is difficult to navagate. But nothing was more horriable than that blackface Twin with two of the white SRO's, now that one was painful!!

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by ellwood:

.... nothing was more horriable than that blackface Twin with two of the white SRO's, now that one was painful!!

Oh let's see.... the Dual Showman with two 15 inch JBLs comes to mind, the traditional Marshall stacks, the Kustom three 15 cabinet or the one with two fifteens and a big-assed silver horn... we guitar players know no end to our desire to cart around huge amounts of equipment, stacked to the ceiling. We're only rivaled by bass players who like even bigger boxes, keyboard players, who like huge racks of rackmount stuff and stacks of keyboards but don't want to carry their own amps; and drummers, who could clamp radiators, transmission chassis, and old car exhausts to their kits and we'd still think that these were some new pieces of gear from LP...

 

 

...the desire to impress is a strong one.

 

 

Bill

[Caevan O’Shite]

You forgot real, live church-worthy Leslie rotary cabinets, Bill!

[The Bear Jew]

My buddy has a 4x10 Deville... he had it modded at the same place where I had my Marshall head modded.

 

He also had new speakers installed... and it's truly a killer little amp. The 4x10s have a different response than 12s--his sound very punchy and focused.

 

It's definitely heavy for a combo. Personally, I don't think it's bad at all. It's not anywhere near as heavy as my Marshall head and Mesa cab, but I guess everything is subjective.

 

Anyway, he added casters to it for easier transport. Not a huge surgery, and it helped a lot. He can roll it most places, and when he lifts it, he just holds it from the top and bottom at once. It's really not bad at all...

[Guitar55]

I think the ultimate speaker configuration would be a 2x10 cab sitting on top of either a 1x12 or 1x15.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by Dances With Werewolves:

You forgot real, live church-worthy Leslie rotary cabinets, Bill!

owww!!!! yes, yes yes... and the darned B-3!!!!

 

 

bill

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by CMDN:

.. he added casters to it for easier transport. Not a huge surgery, and it helped a lot. He can roll it most places, and when he lifts it, he just holds it from the top and bottom at once. It's really not bad at all...

My Super came with factory installed (little tiny) casters. Didn't help as much as one might think, since clubs tend to be down or up steps, as do practice rooms, apartments, etc. (And don't forget, I AM lazy...)

 

 

Bill

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by Guitar55:

I think the ultimate speaker configuration would be a 2x10 cab sitting on top of either a 1x12 or 1x15.

In my esperience, the best sounding bass cabinets are loaded with 10s. So why would a guitar need a 12 or a 15? Now, if we want to discuss cabinet design, that is another issue. Because most guitar cabinets -have- no design. They are just boxes. Conversely, the bass cabs that I like are a product of acoustical design, with an eye on performance.

 

Which brings uo another point.. the original Fender 2x10 cab (for the Tremelux) was very small. The SWR (etc) 2x10 bass cabs are very small.

 

Bill