Super 8 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I would just like to inform everybody, that I absolutely [b]WILL NOT[/b], under any circumstances, be posting anything in [b]THIS THREAD!!!!!![/b] Thank you for your attention... :) . . . . [b][i]D'oh!!![/b][/i] :mad: Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Thanks for letting me rant, ..Joe [/quote]and a nice rant it was. :thu: Skip, With all due respect, that BIG ASS avatar is killing me. Downsize my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Yeah, I have to agree - please downsize it a bit - it messes with the page formatting. But it IS a cool looking avatar... :) OTOH, with the dolphins, I thought I was seeing something new from the Wewus. :eek: :p ;) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]The policy of appeasement has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening now.[/b][/quote]Allowing Sadam to flout U.N. resolutions is a policy of appeasement. That he has broken agreements made after the Persion Gulf war is not in question -- the best way to deal with it is. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]That fact that we aren't dealing with any time pressure means we can afford to take the diplomatic route. Saddam is contained and unable to threaten anyone at the moment. The only 'rush' has come from the Bush administation, and they have utterly failed to justify it. [/quote]Do the french fuck as slow as their diplomacy is? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]The policy of appeasement has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening now.[/b][/quote]Oh! Well, then there you go. Solved that problem. Next.... :rolleyes: --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote]Thanks for letting me rant, ..Joe [/quote]and a nice rant it was. :thu: Skip, With all due respect, that BIG ASS avatar is killing me. Downsize my man.[/b][/quote]Yeah I know the problem I`m using the computer at work, capabilities are limited. I`ll work on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philter Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Comparisons between Nazi Germany and Iraq are inflammatory and silly, nothing more and nothing less. If you want to waste your time arguing that point, go ahead and expose your ignorance. The attempt to frame the argument as a debate between whether or not Saddam should remain in power is naive. The stakes are much higher here, and what is being debated is not the future of Saddam Hussein. The debate is about the future of international law and the role of the United States in a global community. People who think that Saddam Hussein is the important part of this situation are missing the bigger picture. If current trends and events continue to follow their apparent path, it's highly likely that GWB will not be reelected, and in 2004 we can begin to clean up the mess left behind by this administration. Hopefully things will not be beyond repair. ---------------------------- Phil Mann http://www.wideblacksky.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 my point exactly. And sorry about MY bigger picture. I`m working on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by hrn: [b] If the US , England and Spain will go into war without the United Nations good will then maybe it's time to leave the UN. Noone will trust these countries after this. The winner of this war is already Usama bin Ladin. I think this is a short-witted decision from a bunch of people running on adrenaline...and who put them selfs in a corner with no way back. [/b][/quote]You'd better be thankful you live in a FREE country where you're allowed to say such things pal, why don't you just take your ass and march right outta the US of A!!! Oh, wait... you already don't live in the U.S.... WHAT HAS HAPPENED TODAY: 1) King George has in one fell move ended the viability of the U.N., the best chance the planet had for some lasting stability. 2) Solidified the EU's solidarity and made Chirac a global leader of equal power as the President of the United States 3) Made Bin Laden chuckle probably 4) Singlehandedly set the global opinion of the U.S. back about 75 years 5) Set up the U.S. to be the brunt of economic warfare for all of the foreseeable future 6) Made a lot of generals and weapons contractors very happy Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeton Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [img]http://home.mia.net/~phaeton/avatar/dolphins.jpg[/img] Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: WHAT HAS HAPPENED TODAY: 1) King George has in one fell move ended the viability of the U.N., the best chance the planet had for some lasting stability. [/quote]Another way of looking at is... that he made sure the US would not watch on impotently as the UN, while in agreement with the US and its allies about the threat, did nothing... but play into Saddam's hand. [quote] 2) Solidified the EU's solidarity and made Chirac a global leader of equal power as the President of the United States [/quote]Or another way of looking at it... Forced Chirac to declare that France would NEVER approve the use of force against Iraq, and that France would veto ANY resolution that had military action as a direct consequence. Tough talk. No action. Saddam wins. Same as the last 12 years. I don't see that as a good outcome. [quote] 3) Made Bin Laden chuckle probably [/quote]Another way of looking at is... Bin Laden's so busy looking over his shoulder, hoping he doesn't get captured like his top aides... that if he DOES chuckle... he doesn't do it too long or too loud. And he who laughs LAST, laughs BEST. [quote] 4) Singlehandedly set the global opinion of the U.S. back about 75 years [/quote]Or another way of looking at it... turned the corner to the new reality of US self defence in the world. Shown the US will not rule out direct action against threats after diplomacy has been proven unsuccessful. I can assure you there are SOME dictators in the world, (you know who you are), who are having trouble sleeping tonight. ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS. [quote] 5) Set up the U.S. to be the brunt of economic warfare for all of the foreseeable future [/quote]Hmmmm. Another way of looking at it is... The markets seem to disagree with your view, it appears the traders in stocks, oil, gold ALL were positively affected by today's news that FINALLY a DECISION has been made. We'll have to wait and see how well the markets react to developments. [quote] 6) Made a lot of generals and weapons contractors very happy[/QB][/quote]Another way of looking at it is... You KNOW that virutally no military leader WANTS war. We argue about it... they have to order their men to go do it. And thank goodness that [b]we[/b] are the ones with the "weapons contractors" who have made us the undisputed military leader of the world. If not for the capabilites WE have, more of us and more of THEM would die when we have to do something like this. Ummmm... I guess there's simply more than one way to look at things. Isn't there? :wave: guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philter Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Guitplayer, without the ability or desire to think abstractly, you will continue to frame the debate as a good/bad, up/down kind of argument. Lucky for you the administration is as bloodthirsty and myopic as you. Ahhh, if only the world [i]were[/i] a True/False exam... ---------------------------- Phil Mann http://www.wideblacksky.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Philter: [b]Guitplayer, without the ability or desire to think abstractly, you will continue to frame the debate as a good/bad, up/down kind of argument. Lucky for you the administration is as bloodthirsty and myopic as you. Ahhh, if only the world [i]were[/i] a True/False exam...[/b][/quote]Personal attacks are ALWAYS a nice strategy. ;) They tend to show off your deeply intellectual considerations of all the possibilities and then your ability to distill them into a cogent thought that really cuts through the fog. I've noticed you like to employ personal attacks often. Classy. But then, perhaps I'm not as much of an abstract thinker as YOU. :eek: Let's see. If I post an alternate pov from another poster... or YOUR OPINION. That's just me thinking bloodthirsty and myopic? :freak: Sweet. :thu: guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philter Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Sorry, but every time a dichotic thinker such as yourself says "I'm not fond of war" it rings false. Everything you say contradicts that statement- even your way of thinking contradicts it. Dichotic thinkers such as yourself are by nature instigators of conflict. ---------------------------- Phil Mann http://www.wideblacksky.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Philter: [b]Sorry, but every time a dichotic thinker such as yourself says "I'm not fond of war" it rings false. Everything you say contradicts that statement- even your way of thinking contradicts it. Dichotic thinkers such as yourself are by nature instigators of conflict.[/b][/quote]That's me. Mr instigator. :rolleyes: I guess it's real lucky that [b]I'm[/b] not the POTUS. Real lucky. :D guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlahib.no Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 there's also a UN resolution for Isreal to withdraw from the terretories they are occupying.. they are not complying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 By attacking another nation "in the intrest of humanity" against UN decisions, it is now legit for other nations to make pre-emptive strikes agains whatever other nation they feel the urge to attack. After this, it will happen again and again. The UN is not perfect, far from. But it is the only common arena and body for international diplomacy we have. Really. /Mats http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b]Saddam and Hitler both relied on military power to keep them in control.[/b][/quote]And what is Bush relying on in this campaign? His cleverness? His wit? His problem-solving ability? His negotiation skills? No, it's his relative military might against a chunk of God-forsaken sand that hasn't recovered from the last time we bombed the crap out of them (and killed 220,000 of their citizens). [quote][b]Saddam's treatment of the Kurds can be compared to Hitler's "Final Solution".[/b][/quote]Bush's invasion of sovereign states that he wants to overthrow can be compared to Hitler's invasion of sovereign states that he wanted to overthrow. [quote][b]Even though Hitler was freely elected, both have taken steps to make sure they couldn't be voted out.[/b][/quote]Bush wasn't even freely elected, but he's taking it upon himself (with Mr. Ashcroft) to eliminate Constitutional rights by the truckload. [quote][b]Much of the economy of Nazi Germany was based on the construction of military equipment and weaponry. Sound familiar?[/b][/quote]Yes, it DOES sound familiar. The US has the largest defense budget in the world. That's a lot of happy industrialists. [quote][b]Saddam and Hitler are megolamaniacs.[/b][/quote]I would not disagree. Nor do I believe that Mr. Bush is a megalomaniac. He's a stubborn, reckless, impatient, calculating, immoral bully who's about to graduate to the status of mass murderer, but he's not a megalomaniac. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I cant believe you guys a taking up for saddam . This is crazy. We can argue the big business contracts all day, because the shit happens, but to argue if saddam must go is just wrong. He is a madman that gasses his own people. The little short guy in NK must go and a few other people also. You can moan and bitch all day but we are cleaning up the neighborhood and french are catering(food)the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlahib.no Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 are you also enlisting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Are you? :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick K. Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Am I the only one that has noticed how nasty some of the guys have gotten. These attacks are all too personal. Aren't these the guys that are protesting war, yet are the most caustic in their replys? I've heard way too many F yous. It'd be interesting to tally these and see just which side is really the 'war mongers' and which are the peaceful debators! That is a statistic I'd love to see. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I like how the "anti-war" side complains that it's wrong to compare Saddam to Hitler... but not a peep when someone compares Bush to Hitler. :freak: Ummmm. How 'bout not comparing ANYONE to Hitler? guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlahib.no Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 no, I am not enlisting. I dont believe in the usefulness of this war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by guitplayer: [b]BTW, Jeff wasn't making a direct connection between Saddam and Hitler.[/b][/quote]Yes, that's correct. What I was mostly trying to illustrate is that the thread's title..."a historical mistake will be made"...can be applied to both sides of the argument. There are few direct parallels between Hussein and Hitler, from the aspect of defending sovereign nations from foreign invasion (since we're not still battling Iraq over the invasion of Kuwait like we were in Desert Storm). Regardless of every other factor you may apply toward the President, one that hasn't been discussed is the possibility that he fears that decades from now, people would think of the "historical mistake" was [i]not[/i] stepping in to stop Hussein now, when he has the chance. Talk about a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario! It's a risky gamble, with the highest loss imaginable...that of human lives. And it's incredibly hard to predict the future with any accuracy. The worst part about being a leader is making decisions that go against popular opinion. After all, you *are* an elected representative of those people, right? Shouldn't the majority always rule? Most of the time, yes, it should. But using that logic, we would still have slavery in this country. Abraham Lincoln made such an unpopular decision as president that the United States spilt into two countries and battled each other for four bloody years. I'm sure it was a horribly difficult decision, based on what he saw was the good of the long-term future of the nation and the world. At some point, I have to accept that there are things that I'm not being told, probably for good reason. Continuing that thought, I have to occasionally accept on faith that decisions are being made based on that information, and they're being made by people who have far more expertise than I do on the subject. For the record, I despise war. How incredibly infantile...grown men running around shooting each other with weapons. Ridiculous. I can't even believe when guys past the age of fifteen punch each other in the face. Violence in general is completely contradictory to our supposed evolutionary development path. But also for the record, I am very hesitant to adopt an across the board non-intervention policy. I find it likely that Hussein's dictatorial rule could lead to continued death and massive human rights violations that could easily expand beyond Iraq's borders. Does the United States, with its massive military and technological superiority, have a responsibility to save the world? Therein lies the rub. And, as I said before, it's a good thing I'm not the one in charge. As someone with conflicting emotions as described above, I could never make a decision that would reverberate through the generations like this one will. Good luck to all. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Jeff, Do you check your PM's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_dup2 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I think ProTools is most like Hitler, except for the mustach! Hail to Nuendo, the leader of all that is right and good in DAW's. This is my feeble attempt to make this Politcal Forum a Music forum. All seriousness aside, if it wernt for the wars in germany we wouldent have all the great mics! Didnt the war give us 2 versions of the same german mics?? So i wonder what audio toys we will get from liberating iraq? Just remember Hitler is like ProTools! DCMIX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Dan South hit the nail on the head. I do agree that Saddam is evil. But is this the way to stop him? At the expense of the world hating the US? Saddam will be stopped if we go to war, but we would have also pissed off many other nations and made nations who used to like us dislike us. Can't you see that this whole war is about politics and bullshit? This shit is not about self-defense. Open your eyes people. Don't believe everything that Bush tells you. And no I'm NOT anti-american. But many others will be after this "war" is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 [img]http://www.jamfree.com/images/dolphins200.jpg[/img] http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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