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How do you record electric guitar?


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With a lot of nifty speaker emulation going on, does anybody use it? I still stick an old champ in a plywood box with a baffle and a 57 when there's people around. But when I'm "home alone" I pull out the Boogie, stick the 57 at an angle from the cone and put a condenser back in the room. How about you folks?
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I've been using a Sansamp to record direct, on home projects anyway, but that's mainly because I don't have a good mic to record my amp. I've tried several times to record with my current mics but none are good for this app, the tone just SUCKS.

 

I'm gonna be getting a couple of 57's in a week or two, I can't wait. I hope I can find an older one, I was in a local store a while back and someone was checking out a couple of used 57's. One was older than the other and it sounded a lot hotter than the newer one, to me and everyone else in the store at the time. anyone else ever notice this, I would have never thought about it if I hadn't overheard the salesman telling the guy about it.

 

[This message has been edited by Stratman (edited 11-30-2000).]

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For guitar mic I use an AKG D-1000E or SM-58. To kill noise I always play wireless. This also allows you to put the amp in a room that sounds great and use a small monitor where you are.To kill hum I lightly gate the signalbetween the mic pre and the tape machine.I set it so it will open as soon as you touch the string hard.It will then remain open untill you stop playing.
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I have three separate and distinctly different amp setups. I use countryman direct boxes to get the guitar signal to a small mixer. A direct out from that channel of the mixer sends the "direct" guitar signal to a converter. Then I use the aux sends on the same mixer channel to send signal to the various amp setups. The mixer helps make finding the right amp sound a bit quicker. Then typically, I will use a 57 up close to the speaker and a condenser at various distances, depending on the room. When its all done, I'll have three recordings: direct, close 57 and distant (usually U87 or M49). This also makes it easy to re-amp the direct version of any guitar track. This is pretty cool, and I must confess to re-re-amping with very groovy results. An aux send from my mixing program is routed to the same mixer so that any recorded track can easily be directed back to any amp in the studio. Usually, though, no matter how many tracks I amass, I will combine to a stereo track in the end to "lock in" the particular guitar sound once obtained. Of course keeping all of the original recordings, just maybe limiting their distibution

 

For convenience, in a jamming situation I have run the stereo outs of a POD to a pair of small '59 tweed amps (super-amp and bassman) while using the tweed settings on the POD with FUN stereo results.

 

Man......Guitars are FUN!!!!

 

GigaBoy

 

[This message has been edited by GigaBoy (edited 12-01-2000).]

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I generally like to get 3 or more setups going at one time. Like one with one of my HD-130's [modified for Joe Perry/Aerosmith in the 70's] w/a Marshall 1960 cabinet fitted with custom "Weber VST" speakers; a Vox AC-30 and a Magnatone. I find that between those 3 rigs, as well as a half a dozen or really good guitars, we can usually dial in whatever tone we're looking for. A big one is getting them *all* off the floor. I usually use road case covers, but whatever we end up using, getting the speaker cabinet at least 18"s off the floor is of paramount importance.

 

Recently I've been using the 'Littlelabs PCP' unit as a 'splitter' with a 'Terminator G-4' [made by the Wright Microphone and Monitor company of Atlanta, GA] to get the guitar signal from the control room to the studio. I usually prefer the player hanging with me in the control room, it makes communication a ton easier.

 

For microphones, I've been digging the Royer R-121 in a big way. On the Marshall cabinet I'll put it about 18 inches off the logo plate, usually an excellent spot. There are times when I've stuck it into the grill, this gives up one of the "happy face bottom from hell" tones in a heartbeat...not a tone I'm expecially fond of, but alot of the 'Korn-abee's find it be 'the balls'...

 

For "tone #'s 3-8" from the same rig, a Shure 57 on the lower right driver with a Sennheiser MD-421 on the upper left driver, and an RCA BK-5 on the upper right driver [R-121 on the lower left, see earlier "Korn-tone" reference]...blend/mix/match to taste.

 

On the Vox, a 57 on one speaker and a 121 on the other works nicely...with the Magnatone, there's just something about a Coles 4038 in front, and a Shure 57 round the back [move the back mic until the tone gets rich and creamy!!] that I've had good sucess employing.

 

Doing demos in an apartment, I could see where the POD could come in handy...trying to get good tones from a good player for a record...I think I'd rather stick my hand in blender on "Purre" than have to use the 'Kidney from hell', or it's new 'rackmountable cousin'...absolute drek [iMHO].

 

-----

 

Fletcher

Mercenary Audio http://www.mercenary.com

Fletcher

Mercenary Audio

 

Roscoe Ambel once said:

Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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ive been using the crown cm700 which IMO sounds way better than a 57 [which i HATE on guitar] combined with a royer 121 running a split signal to two different amps, the royer about 2' back aimed at the logo twisting it until i get the tone i want from the top and bottom speaker [oddly the same as fletcher doesbefore i even read about him doing it, great minds eh?] and the crown right up on the grill moving it around until i hear the tone center. makes a nice delay between the two tones when spreading them in stereo.

 

the amps, whatever the guitarist uses and i just tell them to dial the tone they want and go from there. i dont find getting them off the floor to be as big of a deal as fletcher but ALWAYS on a think carpet. typically i try to use an openback combo for the crown and a closed back for the royer for obvious reasons.

alphajerk

FATcompilation

"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Line 6 POD works great in my little "in the corner of the living room" setup. You have to get inside the lil red kidney via the computer and the EMagic SoundDriver to really get good use of the unit. Trying to control the bugger via those knobs sucks bigtime.

 

------------------

William F. Turner

Guitarist, Composer, Songwriter

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Last session I did I used a '65 Fender Twin, cranked but clean to give a little bite. We threw a Neumann condenser infront of one of the speakers about 8 to 10 inches away and let it rip.

 

Good tone for the stuff we were working on.

 

I would like to try SRV's setup.....Fender, Marshall, Dumbel(sp?) all running together, wide open.....

 

Kev

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  • 13 years later...

There are a million right ways to do it, and I've forever done the 57 on the grille/LDC back in the room (which will give you some great results).

 

Two other options I've really liked of late?

 

1. Shure SM7 on the grille (no condenser)

 

This gives me a lot of really nice low-mid energy and a full, clear spectrum. Great for rhythm and lead, especially distorted sounds.

 

2. Royer 121 ribbon, just a bit back off the grille

 

This blends so well with other tracks, and just gives you a really nice vintage, warm tone. If you don't have access to a Royer, give the Cascade Fat Head ribbon a try, they can be had used for $150 or so and are awesome!

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This is a real old thread but I'll throw in my 2 cents...I don't mic anything, I just use the tape output on my PA(s) after going direct with XLR inputs. But I'm not really taping for anything other than my own use and just having fun...
Take care, Larryz
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There are a million right ways to do it, and I've forever done the 57 on the grille/LDC back in the room (which will give you some great results).

 

Two other options I've really liked of late?

 

1. Shure SM7 on the grille (no condenser)

 

This gives me a lot of really nice low-mid energy and a full, clear spectrum. Great for rhythm and lead, especially distorted sounds.

 

2. Royer 121 ribbon, just a bit back off the grille

 

This blends so well with other tracks, and just gives you a really nice vintage, warm tone. If you don't have access to a Royer, give the Cascade Fat Head ribbon a try, they can be had used for $150 or so and are awesome!

 

Sounds like a few good approaches. :cool:

 

I've had more experience with live-gig miking and D/I than with recording, but I can say that a few good ways to do either live-sound or recording are to:

 

- stick an SM57 on the grille (or damn close to it) just past the edge of where the speaker's dust-cover is, with the mic slightly angled so as to be almost but not quite square with the plane of the speaker-cone surface; it delivers THAT SOUND- the same old one, more or less, but a good, classic one...

 

- do the same with a D/I mixed to taste in parallel, such as an amp's Line-Out (preferably balanced XLR), or a good reactive-load speaker-emulator such as a GT Electronics Speaker Emulator (love my old 1st model!), Palmer Speaker Simulator, or the like.

 

- do the same with a digital-modeler/mfx in parallel, mixed-to-taste...

 

- don't forget, if using two or more channels, you can pan as well as mix basic levels...

 

- for extra, enhanced knock and thump in chunky heavily overdriven/distorted rhythm guitar a la Marshall 4x12 type sounds, try adding a little octave-down or octave-down-fuzz post-mic or D/I, possibly via an insert at the board, mixed-to-taste, while also trying a low-cut filter at the board to keep it from muddying the overall mix too much.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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With a lot of nifty speaker emulation going on, does anybody use it? I still stick an old champ in a plywood box with a baffle and a 57 when there's people around. But when I'm "home alone" I pull out the Boogie, stick the 57 at an angle from the cone and put a condenser back in the room. How about you folks?

 

Yep a good old 57 in front of the rim of the speaker is the way I record guitar, although I sometimes use my old Tonelab table top for cleans and a tube distortion stomp in front of the Tonelab for grit.

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99% of the time I've found that you can't go wrong with a good old 57 positioned to taste at the front of the amp. However for a more aggressive sound I'm quite partial to a Sennheiser e906.

If time is available I'll also experiment with micing the back of the amp, and indeed the room with large diaphragm condensers or ribbon mics.

When using multiple mics it's important to check the phase of the mics! A great guitar tone can very quickly be ruined by trying to be too fancy.

 

As for emulators, they are improving quickly, and all the time. I've been given sessions to mix where the guitar tracks have left a lot to be desired and Waves GTR and Avid's Eleven have pulled me out of a hole.

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With a lot of nifty speaker emulation going on, does anybody use it? I still stick an old champ in a plywood box with a baffle and a 57 when there's people around. But when I'm "home alone" I pull out the Boogie, stick the 57 at an angle from the cone and put a condenser back in the room. How about you folks?

 

 

The various Radial J D/I devices do look to be particularly sweet! Their track-record with many pros using them on pro recordings would be testiment to this...

 

99% of the time I've found that you can't go wrong with a good old 57 positioned to taste at the front of the amp. However for a more aggressive sound I'm quite partial to a Sennheiser e906.

If time is available I'll also experiment with micing the back of the amp, and indeed the room with large diaphragm condensers or ribbon mics.

When using multiple mics it's important to check the phase of the mics! A great guitar tone can very quickly be ruined by trying to be too fancy.

 

As for emulators, they are improving quickly, and all the time. I've been given sessions to mix where the guitar tracks have left a lot to be desired and Waves GTR and Avid's Eleven have pulled me out of a hole.

 

Hey again, again, headlow! (I did eventually reply to your last post here, having noticed it rather late.)

 

If you ever get the opportunity to get your hands on a GT Electronics Speaker Emulator, GT E Speaker Emulator II, or one of the various Palmer Speaker Simulator models, they're lovely pieces of hardware that actually behave like a speaker as far as your amp is concerned, being reactive-load devices that connect and function electronically the same way that a real-live speaker does, but providing a line-level signal that is like a miked speaker-cabinet. The GT Sp Emu's in particular were engineered to react with damping, EMF, and tonal characteristics of a vintage alnico Celestion "blue" 12" speaker.

 

They can be connected in parallel or in series with actual speakers just like you might with an actual speaker, or by themselves with no speakers at all. A very interesting all-analog, all-electro-mechanical approach that somehow never caught on!

 

The "Cabinet Voiced" Line-Out of my humble little Carvin Vintage 33 sounds surprisingly good and natural, as well; I believe that it taps some signal off from the output-transformer and applies some EQ curves 'n' such. I've been running that through an inexpensive but well-featured little ART Dual ZDirect passive D/I unit to convert from the Carvin's 1/4" unbalanced T/S Line-Out jack to a transformer-coupled balanced XLR going direct to the board. It sounds surprisingly good and there's no rumble or other noise issues that can plague a mic. (This is, of course, in a live-gig setting that I'm referring to here.)

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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If I ever have spare cash lying around I'll be sure to check them out Mr O'Shite! Something like that would surely come in useful at some point in my little home/transportable studio I'm trying to get of the ground.

 

At the moment I'm investing in some little valve amps that can be cranked for recording purposes. I've picked up a little AC4c1 BL (I previously had the TV version), and am waiting on a second hand Marshall Class 5. My next purchase will most likely be something that can cover the 'Fender' clean tones.

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If I ever have spare cash lying around I'll be sure to check them out Mr O'Shite! Something like that would surely come in useful at some point in my little home/transportable studio I'm trying to get of the ground.

 

At the moment I'm investing in some little valve amps that can be cranked for recording purposes. I've picked up a little AC4c1 BL (I previously had the TV version), and am waiting on a second hand Marshall Class 5. My next purchase will most likely be something that can cover the 'Fender' clean tones.

 

I was in the right place at the right time, more or less, answering a newspaper ad many years ago, and picked up a used GT E Speaker Emulator for a pretty good deal when some people were apparently upgrading their recording studio after an insurance claim payoff. I'd love to have the second model they came out with, as well, but they're apparently pretty rare and pricey!

 

I have a Fuchs Lucky 7 head, 7 watts from 1xEL34- it can also be run at about 5 watts with a 6V6- and two 12AX7/ECC83 types; I really need a good cab loaded with something Celestionish for it... Surprisingly loud! VERY dynamically responsive to ones "touch" and volume-knob manipulation. Close-miking reveals more low-end than the ear perceives coming from it.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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