Hammond XK-3 and Nord Electro impressions (Steely Dan content, too!)

[Nu2Keys]

I went to see Steely Dan in Nashville Monday night and took the time to go to Guitar Center to try some keyboards. (I'm a guitar player playing keyboards in a guitar dominated blues band, and I am currently using an 80's Korg CX3 and an Ensoniq ZR-76, but I would prefer only one keyboard to carry around.) I went in fully intending to love the NE2, and I did, until I spied a Hammond XK-3. Despite the fact that the Nord's Leslie sim was better than the Hammond's, and the Hammond's keyclick sounded a little weird, the Hammond made the Nord seem kinda like a toy. The Hammond just seemed authentic. There was a real keyboard player there trying a $9000 Korg Oasys and I asked him to play the Nord compared to the Hammond, and while he could make either of them sound great, the Hammond was the best, and by quite a bit, too. Later at the Steely Dan show the backup keyboard player was using a Nord Stage for Rhodes sounds and a Roland VK-7 for Hammond sounds, and it sounded great, too!

[Moonglow]

Originally posted by Nu2Keys:

......Despite the fact that the Nord's Leslie sim was better than the Hammond's.....

Per the review of the Hammond XK-1 in the 07/2006 issue of Keyboard, Hammond has reportedly upgraded the leslie sim. It is presently on the XK-1, and a software upgrade will be available for the XK-3. It received a glowing review in the article.

[Jon May]

Jeff Young certainly voted with his hands by playing all organ parts on the VK7 rather than the Nord stage last night with SDan . Comparing photos of his recent tour with DFagen and his SDan setup, it seems the Stage is a recent addition. Maybe he decided to go with what felt most familiar??

[daBowsa]

You didn't happen to see a MIDI cable coming out of the VK7, did you? If it were me, a VK7 would make a nice controller sitting atop a Stage...

[Bobsk8]

Originally posted by Jon May:

Jeff Young certainly voted with his hands by playing all organ parts on the VK7 rather than the Nord stage last night with SDan . Comparing photos of his recent tour with DFagen and his SDan setup, it seems the Stage is a recent addition. Maybe he decided to go with what felt most familiar??

I have found that other keyboard players that are B-3 owners or players in the past or present ( like me) , usally have a VK8 or VK8m if they want to get a good B-3 sound without having to lug around 400 pounds of gear. I haven't seen any other clones with good B-3 sounds as of yet.

[Federico78]

Originally posted by Moonglow:

Per the review of the Hammond XK-1 in the 07/2006 issue of Keyboard, Hammond has reportedly upgraded the leslie sim. It is presently on the XK-1, and a software upgrade will be available for the XK-3. It received a glowing review in the article. [/QB]

Are you sure?

That's a great news!!!!!!!!

How is the new leslie sim?Does it sound better than the old sim?

[Jim Alfredson]

Originally posted by Bobsk8:

Originally posted by Jon May:

Jeff Young certainly voted with his hands by playing all organ parts on the VK7 rather than the Nord stage last night with SDan . Comparing photos of his recent tour with DFagen and his SDan setup, it seems the Stage is a recent addition. Maybe he decided to go with what felt most familiar??

I have found that other keyboard players that are B-3 owners or players in the past or present ( like me) , usally have a VK8 or VK8m if they want to get a good B-3 sound without having to lug around 400 pounds of gear. I haven't seen any other clones with good B-3 sounds as of yet.

An XK-3 going through a real 122 is absolutely unbeatable, imo. I've played them all and even owned a VK-7 since it first came out (it was the best clonewheel on the market at the time, again just my opinion). The XK-3 is as authentic as you can get and is a SOLID instrument.

[Moonglow]

Originally posted by Federico78:

Originally posted by Moonglow:

Per the review of the Hammond XK-1 in the 07/2006 issue of Keyboard, Hammond has reportedly upgraded the leslie sim. It is presently on the XK-1, and a software upgrade will be available for the XK-3. It received a glowing review in the article.

Are you sure?

That's a great news!!!!!!!!

How is the new leslie sim?Does it sound better than the old sim? [/QB]

As an XK-3 owner without a Leslie, it sure is great news! Check out page 54, under "Leslie and Other Effects." In comparing the XK-1's Leslie sim to the XK-3, the article states, "There was a deeper Doppler effect and a more discernible sense of circular motion and of two virtual rotors moving independently." The article goes on to state, "I contacted Hammond, who confirmed that they had indeed improved the XK-1's Leslie effect, and that this will be part of a future software upgrade for the XK-3." The article states the XK-1's Leslie sim is virtually indistinguishable from Apple's EVB3 organ plug-in for Logic....which I have never heard.....but apparently is the gold standard in electronic Leslie sim.

[Federico78]

Thanks for your detailed info, Moonglow!

I own an XK-3 and a leslie 2101 but for certain gigs I only take the XK-3 with me and a I would appreciate a better leslie sim.

I hope that HS will release the upgrade for XK-3 very soon.

[WWW]

At the end of the day, it is all pretty subjective. Just to explicate this point, I have an XK3 (with a Leslie 21 System), a Nord Stage, Nord Electro, and a Korg CX3.

 

I loved the CX3, til I got the Electro. But then the Electro sounded thin to me, so I put the Electro on top of the CX3, and used it for clavs and ep's. Then I got the XK3 and Lslie 21. That seemed to smoke the CX3 - but took up too much amp space. When I switched back to the CX3 (through the Traynor K4) it had really big balls, but lacked the organic finesse of the XK3.

 

So after all this nonsense, I'm using a Nord Stage on the bottom for pianos and clavs and ep's, and the Hammond XK3 on top... As for amps, I am using only the top unit of the Leslie 21, and a Traynor K4 for the bottom....

 

Anybody have similar journeys.....???

[b_3guy]

Originally posted by wdl:

Anybody have similar journeys.....???

My road is Korg original CX-3 with a Leslie 302 & a Roland Chorus to duplicate the Hammond Chorus, original Hammond XB-2, upgrade the XB-2 with a new electronic board with the Leslie 302, Hammond XK-2 with the Leslie 302 or a Leslie 142, & finally a Roland VK-8. When I got the Roland the Leslie sim was good enough that I sold my Leslies, The drummer always makes fun of me calling me a gearoid. I tried to explain it to him in a way he would understand & this is what I told him - It would be like they said to you that playing acoustic drums is not practical. Here are some electronic versions. They sound & feel almost as good as acoustic drums. And then every year they make them a little better, but still not as good as the originals.

[mate stubb]

Methinks you waste your breath trying to raise your drummer's understanding.

 

My journey:

 

Farfisa Combo Compact -> Sunn Sentura II

Farfisa Combo Compact -> Leslie 45

Farfisa Professional -> Leslie 45

Hammond B2 -> Leslie 145

Korg CX-3 (original) -> custom JBL speaker

nothing (late 80s were a bitch!)

Roland VK-1000 -> stereo Peavey ProSys 112s

Nord Electro -> ProSys 112s

Nord Stage -> RoadBox III + ProSys 112s

 

There's been a '59 C-3 and '58 B-3 in there too, but I don't count them 'cause I never gigged them.

[Jon May]

Originally posted by daBowsa:

You didn't happen to see a MIDI cable coming out of the VK7, did you? If it were me, a VK7 would make a nice controller sitting atop a Stage...

Ah! Didn't think to look for a MIDI cable...it's possible. There are some pics of Jeff Young on the SD website which might shed some light there

[Ed Coury]

Let's see....

 

1975, age 14-Farfisa Combo Compact w/ Baldwin Amp

 

1976-Farfisa Combo Compact and Fender Rhodes w/Leslie 900

 

1979-Farfisa Combo Compact and Fender Rhodes w/Leslie, some "Stringer" synth, Les. 900

 

1980-Farfisa Com. Comp., Rhodes, ARP Solus, Keyboard Amp with Leslie Sim (forget the brand!)

 

1982--(sold gear to eat in early days of broadcasting)

 

1990 -DX7, Korg Poly 800, TOA Keyboard Amp (15" & horn)

 

1995-- (sold gear to pay for moving expenses to new city)

 

2001-Yamaha S03, Roland XP-10, TOA Amp

 

2002-Korg Triton LE 61, Yam S03, Korg XP10, EON G2 15

 

2004-Hammond XK3, Rol XP 10, EON G2

 

2005-Hammond XK3, EMU Vintage Keys, EON G2

 

2005 to present-Roland V-Combo, Yamaha S-30, EON G2 (+Fender American Double Fat Strat, Line 8 Spyder Combo Amp).

 

 

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

Methinks you waste your breath trying to raise your drummer's understanding.

 

My journey:

 

Farfisa Combo Compact -> Sunn Sentura II

Farfisa Combo Compact -> Leslie 45

Farfisa Professional -> Leslie 45

Hammond B2 -> Leslie 145

Korg CX-3 (original) -> custom JBL speaker

nothing (late 80s were a bitch!)

Roland VK-1000 -> stereo Peavey ProSys 112s

Nord Electro -> ProSys 112s

Nord Stage -> RoadBox III + ProSys 112s

 

There's been a '59 C-3 and '58 B-3 in there too, but I don't count them 'cause I never gigged them.

[b_3guy]

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

Methinks you waste your breath trying to raise your drummer's understanding.

You're right. He didn't get it. I even drew pictures.

[retrokeys]

Just because SD's keyboardist used the Roland for organ does not mean that the Nord is somehow inferior or that the XK3 has inferior leslie sim. My current gig rig is an XK3 and Nord Electro 61 running through a leslie 21 system. I sold off a VK7 for the Hammond primarily for ease of use. Both the VK and Clavia have excellent organ sounds. The differences between them are not much more than one might expect to find between various classic Hammonds. "Voting your hands" might be nothing more than preferring

real drawbars over buttons. In the heat of the moment having controls where you expect them is important. This is where Hammond beats Roland IMHO. Looked at the gear journey above and got nostalgic. My own goes like this:

Farfisa Mini Compact-Heathkit amp

Vox Jaguar-Heathkit and leslie 120

Hammond M1 and leslies 145 and 251

Hammond C3 (1959 vintage) and 251 leslie

(still have both)

Univox electronic piano and Fender Twin

Reverb

3 Wulitzer electrics over the years

including one of the tan fiberboard ones

Clavinet C (the red and white one)-Fender

Deluxe Reverb

Currently Hammond XK3, Nord Electro 61-

Leslie 21 system.

Also in the 1970's my local music

store let me take out all the then new

Korg synths. Also played Rhodes Stage

piano and ARP Omni String machine for

three month club gig during a summer in

1978. I guess I'll always be retro.

[eric]

I'm a big fan of the Nord Electro, but have been considering an XK3 or XK1 to go with my fairly new Speakeasy Roadbox III as a dedicated organ solution.

 

Since this thread has turned into a behind the scenes of "My History of CloneWheels," here is my best recollection of what I've used in terms of organs and clones and a rough approximation of time:

 

1987: Hammond A-101 bought from my church (no Leslie, just used internal speakers)

1989: Tried using a Brianizer Leslie sim with my Roland JX-8P

1989: Original CX-3; picked up a Leslie 145 which I used for about a year

1990: Hammond M3 paired up with the 145; toured and recorded with it for about a year and then sold it due to no space in my college apartment when it was not on the band truck

1992: Hammond XB-2 #1 with Dynacord CLS-222 - this was a mainstay rig for many years due to portability and sound

1994: Picked up XB-2 #2 as a backup (#1 had some issues sometimes)

1998: Started using Motion Sound Pro3T and then KBR-M shortly thereafter

2000: Hammond XK2 in place of XB-2

2000: Voce V5 for portability (owned 3 of them over the years)

2000: Leslie 122, sometimes on the road

2002: New Korg CX-3

2002: Nord Electro #1

2003: Roland V-Combo and VK-7

2003: Nord Electro #2

2006: Speakeasy Roadbox III

 

I think there were some other details I may have forgotten, but those are the main organ experiences. I do like my Electro through the Speakeasy RBIII, but it would be nice to have something that is purely organ, since I am still using my Electro for a lot of clav and EP.

 

Regards,

Eric

[ITGITC]

eric, you've always been my favorite gearslut, but I'm thinking retrokeys might just be giving you a run for your money.

 

 

Tom

[Nu2Keys]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. My 80's CX3 was a gift from the keyboard player/singer in a previous band. I had talked her into buying it in the first place (used) since it had a pretty good Hammond sound. When she retired she gave it to me as a Christmas present. I bought my ZR76 from a friend who's also in three bands with me since he needed the money for his mom who's in an assisted living facility. That's my history with keyboards. Back in the old days, even though I was the guitar player (sometimes bass player) we used to carry a Hammond C3 with Leslie all the time. I remember carrying that up three flights of stairs for frat parties. That's why I want something easy to carry around.

[eric]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

eric, you've always been my favorite gearslut, but I'm thinking retrokeys might just be giving you a run for your money.

 

 

Tom

If I posted my ENTIRE gear history (not just the CloneWheels and organs), I think I would provide additional competition. That could be the subject of another fun thread "Who has succumbed to the most GAS?" I actually think MarkyBoard might win that one right now.

[retrokeys]

I didn't plan on being a gearslut, honest. It's just when you start in 1966 (gulp) the stuff sort of accretes like barnacles on any old ship. And yes, I was one of those guys that tried to get a C-3 and leslie up three flights to the frat party. This is why I love my xk3 so much even though I will never part with the C, no matter what my spouse has to say about it.

[Bill H.]

Originally posted by Nu2Keys:

Later at the Steely Dan show the backup keyboard player was using a Nord Stage for Rhodes sounds and a Roland VK-7 for Hammond sounds, and it sounded great, too!

The news here to me is that Donald Fagan would trust a Nord for Rhodes sounds, even though it's his backup guy playing it. That's saying something.

 

I'll also bet that the VK-7 was running through a Leslie or Motion Sound. The Leslie sim on that one wasn't all that hot, although the B-3 sim was pretty good.

[Jon May]

Originally posted by retrokeys:

... "Voting with your hands" might be nothing more than preferring real drawbars over buttons. In the heat of the moment having controls where you expect them is important....

Agree whole heartedly